August 3--PE down!! 1 prim mesh is here!

[Vivienne Daguerre]

I received notice last evening that my sims, which are mesh enabled, were about to be restarted for maintenance. After they came back up, a two prim glass of milk was suddenly 1 prim, as were several other mesh items that had been counting as 2 prims. My 3 prim coffee service was down to 2 prims, and my 16 prim cooking hearth was down to 14 prims!! I am not sure what other changes came in. Of these things, the cooking hearth has scripts, but the other things I mentioned do not have scripts.

Thank you to the mesh team!!

[Gaia Clary]

So the calculations have changed as follows:

For objects without scripts:

    active_costs = 1.0
    Server Weight = 1/2 * number of prims in linkset

This implies: If the linkset contains exactly one prim, then Server Weight = 0.5  -> rounded up to 1.0)  Hence PE=1 is now possible for Mesh prims.

For objects with scripts:

    active_costs = 2.0
    Server Weight = number of prims in linkset

This implies: If the linkset contains exactly one prim, then Server Weight = 1.0 hence adding a script to a one prim object results in ServerWeight=1.0

I have updated the other thread Understanding PE: Server Weight & Scripts to reflect the changes

[Miranda Umino]

Sincerly i don t understand why the whole object has got a size doubled when it s scripted and not only the prim having the script.

The LINK* functions are useless in practice with meshes .

 

[Nalates Urriah]

In several articles I have tried to explain the thinking behind the cost increase a script incurs. The article Second Life Mesh Update Week 31 is the latest attempt.

In the simplest terms, for years the Lindens have just not charged for scripts. They now think that was and is a mistake. Now they are trying to make costs equitable based on resources used. In connection with mesh they are placing a system in place to charge for scripts.

Seeing some script counters in popular places I have come across some that show the top two high counts. I was astounded that some avatars were wearing 800 to 900 scripts.

None of the logic regarding 'why' or 'how' the Lindens are changing the costs means anything. We as residents are buying a service from a provider/vendor. If it costs too much, we simply won't buy it. If we perceive an equitable value in the item or service, we will. A free market will bring things to what residents and Lindens think is an equitable result. All the arguments made to influence Linden thinking and change the cost of mesh is just special interest groups maneuvering for their best advantage, which seldom works well for the majority.

So, far the smaller things (avatar to beach-ball size) I'm experimenting with have lower prim and texture costs, upload and tier, than the non-mesh objects would. Once the L$150 upload cost goes into effect that changes for the simpler items but still leaves some advantage for the more complex items.

 

[Gaia Clary]

Again and again and again, the PE is not doubled, the server weight is doubled !!!

The implication is, that the costs are affected only for meshes, which have streaming cost and physics cost below 0.5. And since today even single prim objects with streaming cost and physics cost < 0.5 will have a PE = 1.0 whether they have a script or not, so what do you complain about at the end ?

Even when you say "hey, my wonderfull 200 Prim mesh cost just 100 PE without scripts, and now with scripts it doubles its price... Then you have forgotten to mention, that it has halfed its price when you linked the objects... and so without scripts you simply got a big incentive, which has been removed as soon as you put scripts into the object.

So it depends from which side you look at it:

- you may prefer: "Incentive for non scripted linksets" (the positive look)
- or: "punishment for scripted linksets" (the negative look)

 

;-)

[Vivienne Daguerre]

I get it. I understand that the Lindens are trying to correct an error. The error was that there was no accounting for scripts or limits set on them. They are trying to correct that, at least in part, by adding a cost for scripts to mesh.

I just don't think that applying a script penalty to mesh only is the answer. I don't think mesh will be used a lot for clothing, and I am not sure if it will be for hair. The biggest script offenders are things worn on the avatar, scripted to resize, change colour or textures, or with radars and animations. Penalizing mesh will not fix that. It will only encourage people to use sculpties for things that will be scripted, and for mesh that is going to be worn, it will not matter so the avatar attachment script problem will not be affected at all.

I think that the script issue should be separated from mesh totally. It needs to be looked at as a separate issue, and not have a bandaid solution piggybacked in on mesh that will not work very well or get the job done.

I suggest that they look at script limits for parcels and regions, similar to prim limits. They should perhaps look at limiting events per second. Once you go beyond a certain number of events per second, scripts stop running. As a sim owner, i can control what scripts are out on my land. I have tools to see how many scripts an avatar is running, and I think there are tools in place that I could stop someone wearing an excessive number of scripts from entering.

The above would apply scripting limits reasonably and fairly and put pressure on people to demand attachments with fewer scripts from content creators. It will punish vain avatars for wearing attachments with an excessive number of scripts.

I get it and I understand the problem. Penalizing mesh for scripts is not the answer and it will not solve the problem.

[Rusalka Writer]

I find the prim count change very encouraging. I find the burden of scripts put on mesh very discouraging. Killing the possibility of mesh vehicles is terrible. I'm also very put off by the linking problem. 

I understand that LL wants to "balance the books" of mesh in a way they did not with regular prims and sculpts (and flexiprims and alpha, etc.) They eat the server costs of many other features in SL. For whatever reason, they don't want to do that with mesh. What they'll accomplish, of course, is to eliminate mesh's potential in many areas and encourage the continued use of sculpties.

They have to absorb the cost of avatar attachments or nobody could travel in-world. They's absorbed the costs on other assets to make SL interesting to builders and functional for consumers. So why burden mesh?

[Siddean Munro]

Re: vehicles, I got the impression from the mesh meeting notes on the 1st of August that vehicles with higher PE will still work fine as long as the actual physics shape has a PE of less than 32.  This comment from one of the Lindens appeared to completely go over all the heads of the people in attendance.  Can someone confirm or explain this?

 

[12:14]

Helena (helena.lycia)

Doesn't this make it extremely difficult to create mesh vehicles and stay within physics limits?

[12:15]

Nyx Linden

Helena - for making something physical you just need the physics weight to be under 32, not the entire prim equivalence

[Vivienne Daguerre]

I think that was understood. The complaint was that the vehicles have to be physical and scripted, which makes them dynamic, and higher PE. The higher PE does not matter for function, so long as the physics is below 32, but the prim count is still important because you have to rez the vehicle out on land. You will not be able to rez out a high PE vehicle or drive it just anywhere. There have to be prims available on the land to do so.