EEP Properties

[Vicky Christensen]

I understand that EEPs are now an object in the inventory and can be then shared or sold on the marketplace.  As I am now 14 years in SL I have some very nice Windlights that I would like others to enjoy.  However the problem is that I'm not able to hide the sky properties such as Blue density, cloud color, sunlight color, etc.  I saved the EEP object as No Modify, No Transfer, but Copy OK and then sent it to an Alt.  My Alt was able to view all the sky settings.  You only have to apply the EEP to yourself, and then go into "Personal Lighting" to have full access.  You could then move the sun around, view and change all the settings, and even save it as another EEP.  And of course you would then be able to resell any EEP you buy.  Is this working as intended?

 

Update: Jira filed https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-229340

Edited September 12, 2020 by Vicky Christensen

[Chic Aeon]

7 minutes ago, Vicky Christensen said:

I understand that EEPs are now an object in the inventory and can be then shared or sold on the marketplace.  As I am now 14 years in SL I have some very nice Windlights that I would like others to enjoy.  However the problem is that I'm not able to hide the sky properties such as Blue density, cloud color, sunlight color, etc.  I saved the EEP object as No Modify, No Transfer, but Copy OK and then sent it to an Alt.  My Alt was able to view all the sky settings.  You only have to apply the EEP to yourself, and then go into "Personal Lighting" to have full access.  You could then move the sun around, view and change all the settings, and even save it as another EEP.  And of course you would then be able to resell any EEP you buy.  Is this working as intended?

Well you have always been able to "use" someone else's Windlight if you were in their sim and then save it for yourself so really not much difference. I "believe" the selling intent (as mentioned by some Linden long ago when EEP was starting and Ebbe) was about more complex applications of EEP that included a lot of scripting.  Those I suspect could be no mod.   This is just a guess from what I have heard and read. Other than testing EEP against some of my Windlights and making a day cycle I have pretty much left it alone. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Chic Aeon
spelling

[Vicky Christensen]

Right, the fact that you could have always stolen somebody's Windlight is the reason mine have never been shared.  It looks like that will continue to be the case.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Vicky Christensen

[Mollymews]

17 minutes ago, Vicky Christensen said:

 I saved the EEP object as No Modify, No Transfer, but Copy OK and then sent it to an Alt.  My Alt was able to view all the sky settings.  You only have to apply the EEP to yourself, and then go into "Personal Lighting" to have full access.  You could then move the sun around, view and change all the settings, and even save it as another EEP.  And of course you would then be able to resell any EEP you buy.  Is this working as intended?

i think that this would be a bug.  Suggest that you raise a JIRA about it. I agree that a no-modify asset should when viewed have all its parameters blanked out

[Vicky Christensen]

A no-Mod EEP has some parameters that are not immediately viewable.  For example you can see the color of the sky but you cannot click on it to get its exact RGB value.  But you can also see other values, but just not modify them.  All you have to do is then apply it yourself, then go into Personal Lighting, and suddenly everything is viewable and modifiable to you.  It is very inconsistent.  I tried it in both default viewer and FS.  There seems to be no way to protect your EEP settings.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Vicky Christensen

[Mollymews]

5 minutes ago, Vicky Christensen said:

 All you have to do is then apply it yourself, then go into Personal Lighting, and suddenly everything is viewable and modifiable to you.  It is very inconsistent.

this is the bit that your JIRA bug report should raise

[Vicky Christensen]

Very well

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-229340

[NiranV Dean]

It is like this because its the only thing in this whole EEP bork that was made with a brain cell being used. There is no point in protecting windlights, they are graphic settings and should not be protectable. The real thing that needs protection in windlights are the textures that can be included for cloud noise, sun and moon images. Everything else should be open and free to anyone.

[Kim Fossett]

21 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

It is like this because its the only thing in this whole EEP bork that was made with a brain cell being used. There is no point in protecting windlights, they are graphic settings and should not be protectable. The real thing that needs protection in windlights are the textures that can be included for cloud noise, sun and moon images. Everything else should be open and free to anyone.

I fail to see you conclusion here. In RL I do – among other things – program software synthesizers, and trust me, the major work is sliders and knobs; to get them right. Only when there’s sound-samples involved, there’s this element that resembles a texture in EEP (something from the “outside”, the second element). The results of such programming, call it slider & knob play, is often sold at prices that not everyone wishes to pay – or can pay. However, they’re sold indeed. Because it’s people who knows their way around this, that sells them.

WL/EEP is the same, though there’s likely little interest in this in the big RL. All the timeconsuming adjustments in order to get a sky right; not to mention a day-cycle … Give away??! That part of the work is more than the frame of a painting, as you merely suggest. There’s loads of free inspiration in the old WL libraries in everyone’s inventory to provide more than a fundament for free WL/EEP inspiration and learning.

So if it should be sellable at fair prices, you don’t give the sliders away. They’re like brushstrokes to the painter.

When it’s set to no-modify, it should react like when it’s ditto scripts in an object:

Hidden.

[NiranV Dean]

5 hours ago, Kim Fossett said:

I fail to see you conclusion here. In RL I do – among other things – program software synthesizers, and trust me, the major work is sliders and knobs; to get them right. Only when there’s sound-samples involved, there’s this element that resembles a texture in EEP (something from the “outside”, the second element). The results of such programming, call it slider & knob play, is often sold at prices that not everyone wishes to pay – or can pay. However, they’re sold indeed. Because it’s people who knows their way around this, that sells them.

 

WL/EEP is the same, though there’s likely little interest in this in the big RL. All the timeconsuming adjustments in order to get a sky right; not to mention a day-cycle … Give away??! That part of the work is more than the frame of a painting, as you merely suggest. There’s loads of free inspiration in the old WL libraries in everyone’s inventory to provide more than a fundament for free WL/EEP inspiration and learning.

 

So if it should be sellable at fair prices, you don’t give the sliders away. They’re like brushstrokes to the painter.

 

When it’s set to no-modify, it should react like when it’s ditto scripts in an object:

 

Hidden.

 

Apples and oranges.

Making music and making a windlight are completely different worlds. One needs skill, the other one doesn't and is merely a minor test of patience. One requires software and possibly hardware that is not available to anyone, the other can be created and manipulated by anyone at any given time for whatever reason, it was always like this and should always remain like that. If you plan on cashing in on something that is a mere few left clicks away you should probably go somewhere else. It's already bad enough shapes are being sold and those are LITERALLY the same just for avatar appearance, anyone can create them at any given time for whatever reason they see fit and change them to whatever they want them to be with minimal effort and skill, not to mention the unrealistic prices of 1000L$ (thats a whole avatar worth) and then they are no mod which is basically like buying a shirt and whenever you want to rip out a piece to make it look like those cool kids with their ripped clothes, a big fat "NoNo" sign appears telling you you cannot modify this... except that you apply a shape preset to your avatar that a million other people are wearing too. Everyone is a look-a-like. That's literally going against what SL is all about. It's literally giving users too much freedom over other people's freedom over a couple values that aren't worth a single L$. Windlights are even worse in that regard because they have been always free and open for everyone to edit which is what made Windlight what it is, without being able to edit a Windlight we'd always end up making our own Windlights because the ones from others aren't cutting it and then sharing them kinda becomes useless which is what shareable presets was all about. Next thing you want to sell me your graphics presets? For what? 100L$? Ones that might not even work my hardware or may even crash me? Right. I hope Windlights stay open. The day Windlights are closed off completely is the day i call quits on SL.

Edited September 16, 2020 by NiranV Dean

[natashaderkach99]

3 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

Apples and oranges.

Making music and making a windlight are completely different worlds. One needs skill, the other one doesn't and is merely a minor test of patience. 

Here is example in-world screenshot of windlight I made.   No photoshop or extra sky/cloud textures.  Was more than minor test of patience.  Requires skill or not, I couldn't recreate from scratch.  Lucky I have backup.  I would sell if properties could be hidden.

 

[NiranV Dean]

1 hour ago, natashaderkach99 said:

Here is example in-world screenshot of windlight I made.   No photoshop or extra sky/cloud textures.  Was more than minor test of patience.  Requires skill or not, I couldn't recreate from scratch.  Lucky I have backup.  I would sell if properties could be hidden.

No one selling their windlights is fine with me. There are thousands of windlights out there for free for people to choose from, its not like we lose anything. As long as someone isn't including custom textures into presets i see no reason to have to pay for them and textures already cannot be copied out of the presets as far as i know.