Fixing Minor Things Instead of the Main Things

[Prokofy Neva]

So, I'm reading the liner notes on the latest viewer release:

 

Maintenance: Pálinka

Pálinka is a traditional fruit brandy in Central Europe with origins from the Hungarian Carpathian Basin, known under several names, and invented in the Middle Ages. Protected as a geographical indication of the European Union, only fruit spirits mashed, distilled, matured and bottled in Hungary and similar apricot spirits from four provinces of Austria can be called "pálinka". Törkölypálinka, a different product in the legal sense, is a similarly protected pomace brandy that is commonly included with pálinka. While pálinka may be made of any locally grown fruit, the most common ones are plums, apricots, apples, pears, and cherries.

Similar products exist in the Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovakia known as Pálenka as well as in Romania under the name Pălincă.

This is some kind of in joke, who knows what it means...

More Effective Group Information

Group chat notify toasts ignores IRC-like formatting

Fields for new group notice disappears immediately after appearing

"Share" checkbox becomes gray after sharing the object (no modify) for the group

The 'You are being invited into the group's role: Officers.' text is shifted behind buttons in the 'Notifications' floater when an empty string is present in the group description

Group notice edit field is missing inventory icon

Group-floater invite description

Group Role Permission "Eject Members from this Group" Is Poorly Described

Group icon is broken on the Group tab in the Profile if select icon through 'Local'

 

These are all things I've never noticed, and don't matter -- they remind me of avatar foot shadows.

There are far more important things that never get addressed.

One is how ejection or ban from a group doesn't take effect on an avatar during that log-in session, so if he is spamming the group and he is ejected or even banned, he can keep on bothering the group until he logs out, which may be hours. This should take effect immediately.

Another big annoyance is that pasting in a name to the search box simply does not work.

The search produces "0" as a result.

You are forced to type in letters one at a time to make it search at least around that name, and pick it out.

But if you pasted a name from chat or a profile, to give an invitation or change a role, you're out of luck, as cut and paste into the group menu to serve simply won't work.

And so on. There's more. But apparently "IRC formatting" is more important (!)/.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Another big annoyance is that pasting in a name to the search box simply does not work.

The search produces "0" as a result.

You are forced to type in letters one at a time to make it search at least around that name, and pick it out.

I've just tested that with the LL viewer, and copy-pasting a name from chat works fine, even when there's a bit extra on the end like the colon. Also copy-pasting from a profile works fine. For that I used the large name next to the image at the top of the profile. In both cases, there was formatting to the names. In chat it was linked and coloured, and in the profile it was large and coloured. I didn't change anything about the formatting. I just copied and pasted, and they both worked fine.

[Whirly Fizzle]

9 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

One is how ejection or ban from a group doesn't take effect on an avatar during that log-in session, so if he is spamming the group and he is ejected or even banned, he can keep on bothering the group until he logs out, which may be hours. This should take effect immediately.

This is actually fixed, or rather fixed enough to work around the problem.
Just ejecting the avatar from the group will still usually fail to kick them out of the current group chat session, so they can keep on spamming until they relog.

However, actually banning the avatar (which does an eject and then a ban) will actually forcibly eject them from the group chat.
So, always group ban the spammers - there is no way they can get around that on any viewer, the eject when you ban is enforced server side.

9 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Another big annoyance is that pasting in a name to the search box simply does not work.

The search produces "0" as a result.

You are forced to type in letters one at a time to make it search at least around that name, and pick it out.

But if you pasted a name from chat or a profile, to give an invitation or change a role, you're out of luck, as cut and paste into the group menu to serve simply won't work.

Are you talking about searching names in group member lists?
The LL viewer will not find any results in group member search for Firstname Lastname. You instead need to search for firstname.lastname.
eg) Searching for Prokofy Neva returns no results. Searching for prokofy.neva works.

On Firestorm, group member search will return results for Firstname Lastname

On the LL viewer, the fact in some places you need to search for Firstname Lastname & firstname.lastname fails & in other places it's the opposite behaviour  drives me bonkers.
 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Whirly Fizzle

[Prokofy Neva]

7 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I've just tested that with the LL viewer, and copy-pasting a name from chat works fine, even when there's a bit extra on the end like the colon. Also copy-pasting from a profile works fine. For that I used the large name next to the image at the top of the profile. In both cases, there was formatting to the names. In chat it was linked and coloured, and in the profile it was large and coloured. I didn't change anything about the formatting. I just copied and pasted, and they both worked fine.

No, it doesn't work. Works on My Machine isn't a solution.

That's why I report that it doesn't work as I have to do this action dozens of times a day.

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

45 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

This is actually fixed, or rather fixed enough to work around the problem.
Just ejecting the avatar from the group will still usually fail to kick them out of the current group chat session, so they can keep on spamming until they relog.

However, actually banning the avatar (which does an eject and then a ban) will actually forcibly eject them from the group chat.
So, always group ban the spammers - there is way they can get around that on any viewer, the eject when you ban is enforced server side.

Are you talking about searching names in group member lists?
The LL viewer will not find any results in group member search for Firstname Lastname. You instead need to search for firstname.lastname.
eg) Searching for Prokofy Neva returns no results. Searching for prokofy.neva works.

On Firestorm, group member search will return results for Firstname Lastname

On the LL viewer, the fact in some places you need to search for Firstname Lastname & firstname.lastname fails & in other places it's the opposite behaviour  drives me bonkers.
 

 

We've been over this, as you know.

The search does not work for any kind of paste, regardless of what time of name it is, prokofy.neva or Newbie Resident.

When you paste, you do not capture prokofy.neva  The end.

The point is about WORKING WHEN PASTING.

If it works "when you type prokofy.neva" that doesn't matter because then I can type the first few letters, and then pick out the name.

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

46 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

This is actually fixed, or rather fixed enough to work around the problem.
Just ejecting the avatar from the group will still usually fail to kick them out of the current group chat session, so they can keep on spamming until they relog.

However, actually banning the avatar (which does an eject and then a ban) will actually forcibly eject them from the group chat.
So, always group ban the spammers - there is way they can get around that on any viewer, the eject when you ban is enforced server side.

Are you talking about searching names in group member lists?
The LL viewer will not find any results in group member search for Firstname Lastname. You instead need to search for firstname.lastname.
eg) Searching for Prokofy Neva returns no results. Searching for prokofy.neva works.

On Firestorm, group member search will return results for Firstname Lastname

On the LL viewer, the fact in some places you need to search for Firstname Lastname & firstname.lastname fails & in other places it's the opposite behaviour  drives me bonkers.
 

 

In most cases, i.e. if it is not a newbie innocently just asking a question in the group who hasn't read the rule asking people not to do that and IM me directly, I don't ban them or eject them, I just IM them and explain.

But a person spamming, having a rage fit, etc. I obviously BAN and not just eject. It does not work to keep them out of the group until they relog.

Happy to test when you're inworld.

 

[Phil Deakins]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Another big annoyance is that pasting in a name to the search box simply does not work.

The search produces "0" as a result.

You are forced to type in letters one at a time to make it search at least around that name, and pick it out.

It does work. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with my machine. I wouldn't say that it works if it doesn't. But you should be much more clear as to what you're saying. It seems that you meant searching within the Group floater, but that's not what you wrote. We aren't mind-readers here. We can only go by what is written in a post. And don't even think about justifying your omission by saying that the preceding sentences talk about ejecting people from groups, therefore it's obvious that you meant seaching in the group floater, because the space between the two implies that there's a break and, of course, searching is totally different to ejecting.

I admit that the part after the next space talked about a search within the Group floater, but that came afterwards - after a space and after I'd decided to check it for myself. And, of course, as you saw, I quoted the the part that I replied to, so your response should not have been "It doesn't work". It should have been something like, "You missed the next bit where it showed that I meant searching in the Group floater. Sorry for not making it clear".

Accuracy in what you write in posts is your friend. Omissions are your enemies.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Prokofy Neva]

@Phil Deakins the original post is about THE GROUP TOOLS and it stated as much. It's not about general search. Reading comprehension and context are your friends.

I never even heard the term "Group Floater" and that's common, Lindens and their helpers and friends have a certain lingo about the viewer and the tools and the rest of us don't know it/don't use it.

That doesn't work.

It's not about accuracy, it's just about your general spleen, and your specific grudges against me. It doesn't matter. I make posts to see answers from people of good will, as they are often helpful. That would not be you.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Deann3]

Sorry to say Prokofy, but compared to the general failure of the basic SL structural integrity, what you have mentioned - in relation to group chat/banning - is fairly minor. That being said, however, Linden Lab have long proven that they're more concerned about adding in more stuff that isn't properly tested, throwing out quick-fix patches that haven't been properly tested and generally doing stuff that makes no real sense rather than actually doing anything to fix major issues. Simple fact is this - if we, the users, know that an issue is important to need desperate fixing, it's 100% guaranteed that LL will blatantly ignore and instead fix a minor thing with that "fix" causing even more issues with the already pre-existing major problems.

[Phil Deakins]

15 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Phil Deakins the original post is about THE GROUP TOOLS and it stated as much. It's not about general search. Reading comprehension and context are your friends.

I never even heard the term "Group Floater" and that's common, Lindens and their helpers and friends have a certain lingo about the viewer and the tools and the rest of us don't know it/don't use it.

That doesn't work.

It's not about accuracy, it's just about your general spleen, and your specific grudges against me. It doesn't matter. I make posts to see answers from people of good will, as they are often helpful. That would not be you.

Even though it's your original post, I'll correct you as to what it was about. Regardless of what you intended it to be about, this is what it was about as far as readers are concerned:-

First the title of the thread. It says, "Fixing Minor Things Instead of the Main Things". That has nothing to do with groups.

Then there's the lower section of content, which includes the part that I quoted and replied to - in a helpful way, I might add. This is it.

On 28/07/2018 at 11:30 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

These are all things I've never noticed, and don't matter -- they remind me of avatar foot shadows.

There are far more important things that never get addressed.

One is how ejection or ban from a group doesn't take effect on an avatar during that log-in session, so if he is spamming the group and he is ejected or even banned, he can keep on bothering the group until he logs out, which may be hours. This should take effect immediately.

Another big annoyance is that pasting in a name to the search box simply does not work.

The search produces "0" as a result.

You are forced to type in letters one at a time to make it search at least around that name, and pick it out.

But if you pasted a name from chat or a profile, to give an invitation or change a role, you're out of luck, as cut and paste into the group menu to serve simply won't work.

And so on. There's more. But apparently "IRC formatting" is more important (!)/.

The first short paragraph is a general introduction to what follows.

The second one tells us that there are 'things' that need fixing.

Neither of those gives any indication that we should be thinking 'group floater'.

The third describes one thing that needs fixing - "ejection or ban grom a group".

The next four describe another problem (a different one) - "the search box". The first of them indicates the search box. The next two refer simply to search, and we all know what that means. It's used often enough in the forum and we know that it doesn't mean searching within the group floater. The second and third describe what the problem with search is. Only in the the fourth does anything to do with the group floater get mentioned but, by that time, our understanding has been set and, if you're a helpful person, or if you just want to check it because you haven't come across it yourself, you've already gone off to check if the stated problem really does exist.

Now, if you'd written the post much more clearly, instead of omitting an important part, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Accuracy is your friend in the forum

You are incorrect that I have a grudge against you. I dislike you a lot, and I have very negative opinions of you that you've earned over the years, and still continue to earn, but I don't hold any grudges against you. You're not a significant enough person for grudges. That is shown by the fact that I was particularly helpful, by taking time to log into SL and do several tests of the problem you first described, including logging in a second avatar in for the local chat copy-paste test. And then by posting my findings for you in a very helpful way. If there is any grudge between us, it is within you, presumably because I greatly embarrassed you many years ago, by conclusively proving, in your own blog and in front of your readers, that you were completely wrong in what you claimed when you tried to embarrass me. That's memory - not a grudge

Edited July 29, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Whirly Fizzle]

On 7/28/2018 at 11:30 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Another big annoyance is that pasting in a name to the search box simply does not work.

I filed a JIRA issue for this one: BUG-225177 - Make searching for avatars easier by making all search inputs accept both legacy names and usernames

That was probably the most annoying JIRA I've ever had to file.
Turned out to be more complicated then I thought.

[Phil Deakins]

Unintentional post.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Prokofy Neva]

On 7/29/2018 at 3:18 AM, Phil Deakins said:

Even though it's your original post, I'll correct you as to what it was about. Regardless of what you intended it to be about, this is what it was about as far as readers are concerned:-

First the title of the thread. It says, "Fixing Minor Things Instead of the Main Things". That has nothing to do with groups.

Then there's the lower section of content, which includes the part that I quoted and replied to - in a helpful way, I might add. This is it.

The first short paragraph is a general introduction to what follows.

The second one tells us that there are 'things' that need fixing.

Neither of those gives any indication that we should be thinking 'group floater'.

The third describes one thing that needs fixing - "ejection or ban grom a group".

The next four describe another problem (a different one) - "the search box". The first of them indicates the search box. The next two refer simply to search, and we all know what that means. It's used often enough in the forum and we know that it doesn't mean searching within the group floater. The second and third describe what the problem with search is. Only in the the fourth does anything to do with the group floater get mentioned but, by that time, our understanding has been set and, if you're a helpful person, or if you just want to check it because you haven't come across it yourself, you've already gone off to check if the stated problem really does exist.

Now, if you'd written the post much more clearly, instead of omitting an important part, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Accuracy is your friend in the forum

You are incorrect that I have a grudge against you. I dislike you a lot, and I have very negative opinions of you that you've earned over the years, and still continue to earn, but I don't hold any grudges against you. You're not a significant enough person for grudges. That is shown by the fact that I was particularly helpful, by taking time to log into SL and do several tests of the problem you first described, including logging in a second avatar in for the local chat copy-paste test. And then by posting my findings for you in a very helpful way. If there is any grudge between us, it is within you, presumably because I greatly embarrassed you many years ago, by conclusively proving, in your own blog and in front of your readers, that you were completely wrong in what you claimed when you tried to embarrass me. That's memory - not a grudge

The original post referred to the group tools. Group tools are in...groups. It cut and pasted from the Linden liner notes:

More Effective Group Information

Everything in that paste-up from their notes is about groups.

A reference to search is obviously inside the group, not in the general search. 

The problem with all this is that Whirly Fizzle understand the original post, filed a JIRA, which was difficult as she said (God bless her) and never complained about anything being not clear. 

Lack of good will and bad faith always hamper reading comprehension.

[Phil Deakins]

You see, the problem with that explanation is that it appeared that you quoted the Linden notes to show that other things need fixing that are more important than all those little fixes in the groups system. They appeared to be comparisons. I.e. not those - these. If you'd said that there are more important things in the group box that need fixing, then it would have been clear. But you didn't, so what you went on to say about search wasn't "obviously about search inside the group" - except in your mind as you wrote it, of course. We are not mind-readers here.

Sorry, but your post simply wasn't clear, and it could easily have been.

And don't forget that Whirly asked you if you meant searching in the group box, when she wrote "Do you mean ... ?". So she didn't understand it perfectly at all. She felt that she needed to ask. It was unclear to everyone. A simple 'Sorry. I meant searching in the group box' was all the reply you need have given, instead of all this arguing that you wrote it so that it was perfectly obvious.

It hasn't all been in vain though because it has reminded me never again to even think of lifting a finger or engaging a brain cell to provide any information that might be useful to you, and I'm grateful for that.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Phil Deakins