A few questions about tiers and group owned land

[Purplerain Horowitz]

Good evening. I have done some due diligence and cannot come up with an answer by searching, so I am going to present it here; please forgive my ignorance. The first question: I have found a nice set of lots that I would like to buy, I want to shave a little off of the back (or side) of one of the lots and abandon it because it will bump me up into another tier. I know it is silly to waste land, but the price is good enough to where shaving some off is not a loss to me. That being said, how long do I have before LL charges me tier for that small amount of time I have extra land?  What I am asking is if I turn around and shave some off within like an hour of buying am I going to get bumped into the next tier, i.e; $5 to $8, etc. Second question: Does every member of a group get a 10% bonus for donating their premium land allotment to group purchased property.

My scenario is I want to buy a 1024 parcel owned by one person and then there are two 512m in front of that owned by another person,  join those and then abandon some of the newly formed parcel. I want to buy all three for the group and have three people donate their 512m for the newly formed parcel (or I hope). Is that doable and if so, then how much land could we own and not end up owing LL any extra monthly tier. I came up with 1690m, if three ppl donate. But, something is not sounding right for me. I have not come across a lot that size. I think that about covers everything I need to know. Hopefully, I explained it well. One would think after being in SL 8 years, I would know some of this stuff, but land is new to me...I have used Linden homes, but find owning land is so much more fun and need the extra space for a family!! 

Please and thank you in advance for any help or guidance you can provide.

[Chic Aeon]

Note that this may not be correct and read further down :D. It is possible that there is a 72 hour waiting period --- or not

You will end up paying tier on the extra for ONE month assuming you  buy and then abandon. The only way around that would be to have the owner divide and then sell you the small part that you want for the price of the whole and then THEY would abandon (or keep) the other part.  If you own it ONE SECOND you would still owe the tier (been there).

If you make a group and have the three people all donate their tier to the group, then the group can buy the land. You can tell just how much in the backend of the website in the land area.

No way to strike the below text out any longer :( but the stuff below is incorrect. 

So for the group land I am part of there is 46 meters left over per person it says (never used) so that would be  1674 if my math is correct.  3 x 512 + 3 x 46. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[LittleMe Jewell]

Take the 512 * 3 = 1536 - and then add 10%, which is 153.6 (I think you need to round down) -- so the group gets 1689 sqm for the three 512 donations.  After all 3 people donate their 512, the group land tab will tell you how much land that tier will cover - it will add in the bonus.  You'll then know for sure whether that 10% is properly rounded or truncated.

Note however that if the group is doing the buying, someone will have to donate more in order for the group to even buy that second 512 - the group has to have enough tier to cover the purchase.  You can then shave off 389 to get down to the 1689.  Whichever person donated the extra in order to do the purchase in the first place still has to pay the extra tier for one month. They need to just immediately adjust their tier donation as soon as you carve off and abandon the one piece.

As Chic noted though, getting the owner to carve it up will keep you from going higher in tier.  If the owner is around, they shouldn't mind too much since you are willing to pay the full price for the smaller parcer.

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by LittleMe Jewell

[Purplerain Horowitz]

Awesome. Thank you both so much.  I was starting to get lost there for a bit. This information helps me out a lot, I appreciate your time. 

[Chic Aeon]

Here is where you can see what is available to each person. In the case of the group I am in there are three people donating land and there are three 512 lots that are group owned. So I was confused and see how easy it is TO be. Changing the donation amount to anything past 512 charges a $5 a month cost as you can only donate up to your 512.

 

Later note and photo: 

There USED to be an option to buy land for group in the land buying tab. That was no longer there in my test. 

The WIKI says it is there  and I found an interesting paragraph stating that you could own land for up to 72 hours with no charge to your group. (see screenshot below).

THE PROBLEM IS that the wiki may not be correct since obviously it isn't on some account. Previously even a non-premium member could by land FOR a group they were a part of (pretty sure they had to be an owner).  That no longer works and even an owner that IS premium could not buy a mainland lot for the group this way. 

So I was (maybe) wrong on two counts LOL --- or maybe not. The problem is that you can frequently get charged for land when you aren't expecting it. I even called up and chatted with billing once about land who gave me incorrect information about when tier was charged and ended up paying for land for a month when I only owned it for a couple of days. That isn't a big deal if it is a 512. If it would have been a sim -- that would have been a really big deal. 

So if you get all your land and then cut off what you think you need to and abandon be sure and check the costs for each person (or alt) in the land management tab. 

And "I" am a little smarter now LOL. Good luck with this. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

 

This page is actually a bit misleading - Just last week I spent some time discussing it with LL Support.  When you modify the Tier section below this, it actually changes both the "Current" and "Estimated" columns above, but the 'Current' is not necessarily correct.  The 'Tier' section is really just dictating how much land you can buy before the warning box about 'increasing tier' pops up.  The 'Current' column of this display will represent whatever you have ticked in the Tier section, but if you don't really own that much, then the "Monthly Cost" column is not really Current.

For accurate information about your Current land costs, look at the Land Holdings section on the Account Summary page.  That page will show what your peak usage for the month is and what you will be bill on you next billing date.

[Chic Aeon]

56 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This page is actually a bit misleading

Agreed. I spent some time fiddling with the numbers in the boxes.  There also used to be an easy way to donate your "leftover" tier to a group and I can't find that anywhere now. Any idea where it went?  I don't see any way CURRENTLY to buy land for a group OR donate tier to a group. Those options have seemingly disappeared. So the only thing one can do is buy land and then donate land TO a group?   

It has been years since I looked at this closely but it is even more confusing now than it used to be. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

29 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Agreed. I spent some time fiddling with the numbers in the boxes.  There also used to be an easy way to donate your "leftover" tier to a group and I can't find that anywhere now. Any idea where it went?  I don't see any way CURRENTLY to buy land for a group OR donate tier to a group. Those options have seemingly disappeared. So the only thing one can do is buy land and then donate land TO a group?   

It has been years since I looked at this closely but it is even more confusing now than it used to be. 

AFIK, the only way to donate land to groups now is via the Group profile Land tab - it will show you how much more you have available to donate.

As long as I have the proper group tag active, I can do the 'Buy Land for Group' - via the About Land box. 

 

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

The WIKI says it is there  and I found an interesting paragraph stating that you could own land for up to 72 hours with no charge to your group. (see screenshot below).

 

Interesting enough, when I was just now testing that 'Buy For Group' option, it was going to let me buy the land for the group even though the group does not have enough tier to cover it.  So the above statement may in fact be true -- or at least the group could own the land for a short bit without the needed tier. (A side note to that, one of the groups I belong to has shown negative tier on their Land tab for many, many months).

Edited August 21, 2017 by LittleMe Jewell

[Chic Aeon]

8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

AFIK, the only way to donate land to groups now is via the Group profile Land tab - it will show you how much more you have available to donate.

As long as I have the proper group tag active, I can do the 'Buy Land for Group' - via the About Land box. 

 

Interesting enough, when I was just now testing that 'Buy For Group' option, it was going to let me buy the land for the group even though the group does not have enough tier to cover it.  So the above statement may in fact be true -- or at least the group could own the land for a short bit without the needed tier. (A side note to that, one of the groups I belong to has shown negative tier on their Land tab for many, many months).

 

OK I got that too through the LAND TAB (thanks) .  Meanwhile I found this quote in the group land wiki so that's easy to convert: 

 

If the group has 2048 sqm of land donated to it, they can own up to 2253sqm of land (the 10% bonus). 

Looks like the answer is 1686 or 1687. Note though that land can only be taken off in 16 meter chunks (4x4) so that figures into the mix also.  So if my math is correct it would be 1680 that you could have. From another thread I think we could divide land up in smaller chunks long ago (not the 4 x 4 minimum now) but that was LONG ago. Maybe the 16 minimum came into play with all the add farm stuff. I really don't remember.

 

If the donations of land tier to the group is not enough to cover the actual land owned by the group, a Linden will forcibly seize some of the group land to bring the owned land to within the donated land tier. Usually Linden Lab gives 7 days grace on this.

But I also read somewhere in an "officialish" statement that the owner was responsible for the tier and would be charged. So after all this I now know "again" where the Buy for Group Land option is -- LOL. But the charge is still very iffy.

 

HOPEFULLY THE OP WILL ADD TO THIS POST WITH ACTUAL TIMELY INFO.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

land can only be taken off in 16 meter chunks (4x4) so that figures into the mix also.

Yeah, I had forgotten about that part.

 

8 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

But the charge is still very iffy.

And no way to know for sure without someone willing to test it out.  So, yeah, if the OP goes the route of buying more than wanted and getting rid of it, they will hopefully come back and update this thread with the results.

[Purplerain Horowitz]

Well hello again. I see a lot more helpful info has come in, thank you so much. I wish I had something good to update with, but I am still trying to get my parcel sold. It is priced below other parcels in my area. It is pretty nice, nothing wrong with it -I just do not fly or boat anymore and want something bigger. Anyway, once that gets sold, hopefully, the scenario I presented works out. If not, I have actually found some other potential parcels that are very nice too. One of them is bigger, but I might be willing to raise my budget to live there.  

On that note, (parcel hunting) I have to say how sad it is what some people are doing to landowners around them -well, it is a shame to the parcel itself, too. I found some beautiful parcels that have giant builds visible from the neighboring parcels. Yes, they can be derendered, but I like having people over so that would mean guests would have to derender multiple privacy walls, giant flashing Elvis signage, neon booby signs, etc.  Actually, a few of the builds were not clickable, so I could not derender them, I am not sure what is up with that. I know it is not up to me to judge what it unattractive or not, but I believe other people would think some of those builds are a little over the top as well. One resident had a Turnip's skydome stretched over two 512m grid- edge water parcels, right in between two other people's properties ( land level).   If I lived in some of those neighborhoods I would not have walls up because many of the neighbor's landscaping is gorgeous, I would be happy to be butted up to their property line. There is a beautiful lot with hillside land and protected water that I am in love with,  and would buy, but there are too many huge privacy screens around, that is the lot where one of the walls was not clickable. I wondered from time to time if they are doing it on purpose so the land winds up abandoned because nobody will buy it and the residents end up being in the middle of abandoned land with all that privacy ....or I could be wrong. I know that not being able to pick neighbors comes with the Mainland territory though, so not complaining, they are just observations.  Anyway, that is for another topic, just wanted to throw that out there because it was on my mind, sorry I went off topic. (not that the issue is new to anybody I am sure :)  ) 

Thank you again for your friendly helpfulness. 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Purplerain Horowitz said:

Well hello again. I see a lot more helpful info has come in, thank you so much. I wish I had something good to update with, but I am still trying to get my parcel sold. It is priced below other parcels in my area. It is pretty nice, nothing wrong with it -I just do not fly or boat anymore and want something bigger. Anyway, once that gets sold, hopefully, the scenario I presented works out. If not, I have actually found some other potential parcels that are very nice too. One of them is bigger, but I might be willing to raise my budget to live there.  

On that note, (parcel hunting) I have to say how sad it is what some people are doing to landowners around them -well, it is a shame to the parcel itself, too. I found some beautiful parcels that have giant builds visible from the neighboring parcels. Yes, they can be derendered, but I like having people over so that would mean guests would have to derender multiple privacy walls, giant flashing Elvis signage, neon booby signs, etc.  Actually, a few of the builds were not clickable, so I could not derender them, I am not sure what is up with that. I know it is not up to me to judge what it unattractive or not, but I believe other people would think some of those builds are a little over the top as well. One resident had a Turnip's skydome stretched over two 512m grid- edge water parcels, right in between two other people's properties ( land level).   If I lived in some of those neighborhoods I would not have walls up because many of the neighbor's landscaping is gorgeous, I would be happy to be butted up to their property line. There is a beautiful lot with hillside land and protected water that I am in love with,  and would buy, but there are too many huge privacy screens around, that is the lot where one of the walls was not clickable. I wondered from time to time if they are doing it on purpose so the land winds up abandoned because nobody will buy it and the residents end up being in the middle of abandoned land with all that privacy ....or I could be wrong. I know that not being able to pick neighbors comes with the Mainland territory though, so not complaining, they are just observations.  Anyway, that is for another topic, just wanted to throw that out there because it was on my mind, sorry I went off topic. (not that the issue is new to anybody I am sure :)  ) 

Thank you again for your friendly helpfulness. 

Mainland has its pluses and minuses for sure. Most of my mainland is surrounded by abandoned land these days (it has been group land for oh so many years and abuts protected Linden land so that is a plus). My store is on a road and really pretty good for mainland and since it is a large piece, that helps too.  Even with private lands you can end up with some pretty awful neighbors -- and there is always the sky and surrounds (my biggest seller for maybe seven years now and there IS a reason for that -LOL).  

Unfortunately it is really difficult to sell land these days unless it is priced in the dollar per meter area. Just too much land and not enough buyers. So I do wish you great success and be sure and come back and add to this thread should you actually get to try out the ideas. "I" learned a lot from researching and knowledge is a good thing :D.   

 

[Prokofy Neva]

Yes, you can still "buy for group". To have that appear, you have to a) wear a group tag b) have enough tier in that group to buy that land.

It will tell you if buying that land for group will put you in a new tier level you don't want to be in.

Once a level of tier is applied by your purchase, and it is deeded to your group -- because you have upped your tier with that purchase -- there is no going back. Linden Lab will charge you for that level of tier regardless if you abandon or sell it five minutes later.

So you could try individually buying each one, shave off the land you don't want to take on one of them, then set them all to group and select the option "contribute tier with deed" I think it's called or something close to that. With those two boxes checked they should go in the group. 

There's a 10% bonus as others have noted.

You could also try buying each individual parcel for the group, then deeding it as you go to avoid an overtier.

You can undertier a group temporarily but within 24 hours the Lindens can send a warning and/or seize the overage.