Some sellers are devaluing lindens. You're ruining it for everyone!

[Rya Nitely]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

Well, for now there is kinda regulation. Buy orders side doesnt want to put on 267 but Sell orders are filled very fast and tend to get linden more expensive but some power doesnt let it. So personally I feel regulation by putting at 258 in Sell orders side to keep difference 10 ponts between Sell and Buy part. WHat the heck? I dont understand, it is silly. Looks like Buy orders for 268 are filled very slow. So how they get day volume around 80 mln? Where is Linden Lab dollars? Where they sell them? How it is counted? if Lindex is independent from Linden Lab why Linden Lab instant rates depend on Lindex rate? Maybe I look like fool but I dont understand all this.

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the 10 point spread between limit buy and sell orders covers the fees. For instance, L$150,000 bought at 268 costs $US560,  and L$150,000 sold at 258 equals $US560. Anything greater than a 10 point spread would attract traders, and the competition  would cause that gap to close to 10 points again.

The daily volume of 80 million is mainly being generated by inworld buy orders. These are 'at market' and are filled by our Limit sell orders (currently 258). The limit buy orders (268) are being filled by sellers who don't specify a price - they will sell at the best price on the buy side - not very clever. But maybe (as someone else said) it is LL placing market sell orders. I don't know.

edit: to change market buy to market sell in last line.

[Andi Ghostaltar]

Ive been looking at the market closley for the last few days. Its a joke.

We will never kno for sure but the huge order at 257 looks like its been strategically placed. Where is this huge volume coming from? I watched it drop by 20mil over a day, then boom! 20mil placed back on. This has been consistant over atleast the last week.

Why is it not placed on 255 or 254? Or spread across the board? If it was at 254 the orders infront would easily get filled and the price would be 254. So why so much volume at 257? 

In my opinion the ONLY reason the price isnt getting better is this strange huge volume at 257,it dont make sense. At the rate its going that order will never get filled because its being perpetuated. It will be interesting to see at whwt point that order starts to move.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Andi Ghostaltar wrote:

Ive been looking at the market closley for the last few days. Its a joke.

We will never kno for sure but the huge order at 257 looks like its been strategically placed. Where is this huge volume coming from? I watched it drop by 20mil over a day, then boom! 20mil placed back on. This has been consistant over atleast the last week.

Why is it not placed on 255 or 254? Or spread across the board? If it was at 254 the orders infront would easily get filled and the price would be 254. So why so much volume at 257? 

In my opinion the ONLY reason the price isnt getting better is this strange huge volume at 257,it dont make sense. At the rate its going that order will never get filled because its being perpetuated. It will be interesting to see at whwt point that order starts to move.

 

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Those numbers aren't "orders", they're the total value of all the orders at those prices. Individual orders within the total are filled in the order they're recieved and it takes a while for each order to work its way through the queue. Many people are placing orders at 257 now because that's the best exchange rate that's currently being filled, and it means that new orders are constantly being placed at that amount. As long as there are open orders at 257 no orders at 256 or better will be filled, but an order at 257 will be filled eventually after the orders ahead of them at that value are filled.

[Andi Ghostaltar]

I understand that its made up with multiple sellers. I just say order for simplicity, maybe I shiuld be more precise lol

It may seem like the best price because they are all causing it to stagnate, they dont seem to see that if everyone places at 257 the value will keep dropping because everyone else will have to sell even cheaper to fill thier order quicker or stay stuck at the back of the que. But hey, im no expert. 

Part of the problem as I see it is that we are all humans and as humans we tend not to think of what benefits the whole long term rather we think of the short term benefits for the individual (rl and sl).

I officialy give up caring lol Thank you all for the comments, its been very interesting to hear your thoughts.

[Rya Nitely]

Andi, I understand what you mean. But what you are suggesting just won't happen. Regular sellers will never make a pact. Firstly, there are too many of us. Secondly, most sellers don't read these forums. It's too idealistic to expect it to work.

There is another thing to consider, even if we did make a pact - we might be working against too strong a force - Linden Lab. If LL have decided on this current rate, and if they are controlling the market then their pockets are too deep because they have the power to print $L.

Let's say I followed your advice and put my order at 256 and then wait. Next thing I see the rate go to 260, and a few months later I have three times more L$ waiting at 256. I don't like to have loads of L$ sitting in my account, and I also just want my money. Many people live on the money they make in SL (and anyone who says that people shouldn't be taking this risk is very naive, because SL would never survive without this huge incentive).

What happened over Christmas was enough to tell me the market is being controlled. The L$ dropped to 247 (that old long term rate), and then a very fast correction back towards 260. Why would any regular seller want to do this? 

I'm satisfied with anything under 260, because now I know it could be worse, if LL decided it.

[Rya Nitely]

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Andi Ghostaltar wrote:

I hear what you're saying. But the amount of people who rely on sl as a full time income and to pay bills is very small.

Relying soley on sl for income is a huge risk seeing as its user base is declining. Thats even more reason to take steps to help the market recover. 

 

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You are making a huge assumption here. I will be relying on SL income when I leave my rl job, which is only a few months away YAY!. So now, in this very small sample group of respondents you have two.

SL is highly dependent on those who are prepared to take this risk. I don't believe it would survive without them. The very best and most popular products are made by those who create full time. We all know how much time and effort goes into creating. It's hardly possible to also commit to an rl job at the same time. This is why I'm leaving mine, because they have put up with me for years, and the only reason I'm still there is because they can't sack me. SL put me on a downward spiral in my rl job. I couldn't commit to both.

Well, this doesn't really have much to do with the subject except that, yes there are many people who rely on this income and have to sell.

[Andi Ghostaltar]

Im not asking ppl to form a pact or any other kind of joint venture, im hoping i can spur ppl to look at the market a little better, maybe think abit more about the way ones decisions affect not only ourselves  but the economy as a whole.

But, it looks like someones hearing our ranting lol theres been quite a big drop at 257. Its definitley heading in the right direction now, hope it holds out.

Isnt that funny hehe

[Andi Ghostaltar]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

You are making a huge assumption here. I will be relying on SL income when I leave my rl job, which is only a few months away YAY!. So now, in this very small sample group of respondents you have two.

SL is highly dependent on those who are prepared to take this risk. I don't believe it would survive without them. The very best and most popular products are made by those who create full time. We all know how much time and effort goes into creating. It's hardly possible to also commit to an rl job at the same time. This is why I'm leaving mine, because they have put up with me for years, and the only reason I'm still there is because they can't sack me. SL put me on a downward spiral in my rl job. I couldn't commit to both.

Well, this doesn't really have much to do with the subject except that, yes there are many people who rely on this income and have to sell

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Id say its more of a generalization than assumption. I do beleive only a fraction of the userbase make a living here on sl, and it is risky. There are many stories of catastrophic failures as well as huge successes.

I must congratulate you on your bold move. I know most of us here would love to make a full time income on sl and quit the boring old daily grind of rl work. It goes to show that if you love what youre doing and take it seriously (and have skills) sl can be an awesome place to make money.

[Prokofy Neva]

It's very hard to tell people in a free market what to do. And this is supposedly a free market.

I have serious doubts that it really is, however, based on long experience -- and recent experience.

Recently as I've gone on to cash out Lindens to pay tier, in some cases I've put them to sit for awhile -- I don't mind waiting weeks -- and they never sell even a few points down.

So I might have to sell right away with a limited sell, and set to, say 258 if I see it.

I refresh the page to see how it's doing when I don't see it instantly show up in dollars, and to my surprise, I see a million Lindens suddenly parked at that position. My God, there will be no way I can sell then! Because the next position up immediately starts filling and gets to the half million point quickly.

Refresh the page let's say 10 minutes later *and the million is gone*. Just plain gone.

Now, sorry, kids, I don't believe that a million Lindens are sold at 3:00 am EST just like that, in ten minutes.

I've now seen this happen a dozen times. So I would have to conclude:

1. The Lindens are trying to keep the Linden cheap with this method -- and it is one they acknowledged doing in the past with Supply Linden. But then why the rapid sales?

2. Someone is temporarily parking packets at a certain price on the LindEx and then removing it. But why? What's the sense in this? To enable more sells to then buy those cheaper Lindens? I'm puzzled what the MO is here.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

So I might have to sell right away with a limited sell, and set to, say 258 if I see it.

I refresh the page to see how it's doing when I don't see it instantly show up in dollars, and to my surprise, I see a million Lindens suddenly parked at that position. My God, there will be no way I can sell then! Because the next position up immediately starts filling and gets to the half million point quickly.

Refresh the page let's say 10 minutes later *and the million is gone*. Just plain gone.

Now, sorry, kids, I don't believe that a million Lindens are sold at 3:00 am EST just like that, in ten minutes.

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Well, let's have some fun with math.

Looking at the Lindex history lately, it's averaging around 90 million Lindens a day changing hands; 24 hours a day means that on average it takes 16 minutes for a million Lindens to change hands.

3 AM EST is 8 AM in London, 9 AM in Rome and 7 PM in Sydney.

Given that your "let's say 10 minutes" is hardly a scientific figure, it's certainly not shocking that a million Lindens undercutting the sell queue might be burned through in a short amount of time.

 

[Iren Tinkel]

Saint the one who believes it is honest market. Yeah... just we reached 255 and stable on it (Buy orders at 265) and SUDDENLY in 5 minutes we got orders for 256, 257, 258. Not small anounts as usual for those who wants to sell faster. And one is bigger than other - that is really crazy for any usual merchant. You need to be true desperate to put on 258 amount 500000 ld if there is just 1 mln together on 256 and 257 - 10 minutes to wait and lost 15 usd or even more if to wait 2 hours. Normal merchsnt wont do that. Yes, very honest market. They just fool us. Look, day volume raised up recently comparing last years. They sell money and buy themselves that is why.

[Iren Tinkel]

Again. 1 mln! With lose 70 usd (if just to put them on 254 and wait just maybe hour or so). So people are able to earn 1 mln and not able to count? It is not land lords exactly because their income is difference between linden tier and renter payment so they count every linden. So who then?