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Regulate Land Sales


ViktorStorm
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Remember that this is just my opinion, and everyone is entiled to theirs.

Over the past few years I been watching land sales, I think to my opinion, this shoud be more regulated by Linden Labs.  I see a lot of land go up for auction, and peope getting it an selling it for 2 -3 times as much as they paid for it.  I see this to be a problem, as people that want land cant get it, but the land scaplers eat up the auction land for cheap or drive the price sky high, and sell it to rip people off, and dont give people a chance to have fun bidding on land, and have fun owning it.  Did you ever check out the land for sale, and see the prices people are selling land for.  In my opinion, Linden Labs needs better regulations on this, if you win land in an aution, you should not be able to sell it with in a certain time period, maybe this would help control the land scaplers.  Tell me were the fun is, buying over priced land is fun or even useful, only to the land scaplers, for a profit.  Linden Labs needs to regulate this, or be the one to set limits on how much people can sell land for, ive seen land, 1064 with 600 prims for over 25,000 lindens, which is close to 100 US dollars then plus the tier to LL, do you think its worth it? Again, just my opinion, I have a right to that.

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ViktorStorm wrote:

Remember that this is just my opinion, and everyone is entiled to theirs.

Over the past few years I been watching land sales, I think to my opinion, this shoud be more regulated by Linden Labs.  I see a lot of land go up for auction, and peope getting it an selling it for 2 -3 times as much as they paid for it.  I see this to be a problem, as people that want land cant get it, but the land scaplers eat up the auction land for cheap or drive the price sky high, and sell it to rip people off, and dont give people a chance to have fun bidding on land, and have fun owning it.  Did you ever check out the land for sale, and see the prices people are selling land for.  In my opinion, Linden Labs needs better regulations on this, if you win land in an aution, you should not be able to sell it with in a certain time period, maybe this would help control the land scaplers.  Tell me were the fun is, buying over priced land is fun or even useful, only to the land scaplers, for a profit.  Linden Labs needs to regulate this, or be the one to set limits on how much people can sell land for, ive seen land, 1064 with 600 prims for over 25,000 lindens, which is close to 100 US dollars then plus the tier to LL, do you think its worth it? Again, just my opinion, I have a right to that.

 

Of course you have the right to do that!

This is a free country!

And its always good to have a topic up for people to add their opinions and so we have knowledge on air and we grab it if we want!

Now as for the prices...

I am into rentals and not sales, but i can say a few things...

When someone win an auction they need to wait 1 month (actually until their next tier date) if they want the land to be deeded in a group or else SL will charge them double tier...

Now as for the people who sell 3-4 times more of what they pay for... well that's life! That's a good chance to earn money..

Usually the parcels who are going for that high amounts are good locations or rare or something better than the random parcels of SL...

And if those people manage to get them cheap as you say then that means there was not enough bidders or anything else.

And so, like they did, everybody can get it cheap...

And if the bidders raise the price to 25000 for a parcel of 1024 then you have to be sure its worthy that much!

For example... I have a parcel of approx 3000 meters at Varney and I will refuse an offer of L$25000 for it... To my eyes its worthy way more than that!

As like IRL also in SL there are some locations that are worthy for some people... And as someone said in another post , they worth nothing for others... they said a "rock" is a rock" ...lol

Now as about prices in general... Well, SL land sales isn't only auctions...

You can get parcels less than L$1 per meter and sometimes for 0.5 per meter or 0.6... 0.7 more often at the inworld sales window.. ( CTRL + F) 

That will be a direct sale and you can deed it to a group anytime you want!  <-- Edited

Glad to had the chance to speak about it. Lets see what other people will say!

Wish you a wonderful weekend!

Cheers,

beethros Karas

_________________________________________________________________________________________

 P.S. I hate to edit my posts, but sometimes is nessesary...

Edited :

That will be a direct sale and you can deed it to a group anytime you want! 

The correct is:

That will be a direct sale and you can buy it for a group so there are no double tiers

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No.

The market needs to remain free -- it's already affected by a factors ranging from griefing to ad extortion to auction flipping to abandoned land with junk on it, nothing needs to be done to lower its value.

You seem to have only an anecdotal and superficial impression of the land market. I see thousands of parcels constantly because I have land on 50 sims and also occasionally buy on the auction or inworld.

Land goes for 0.5 -- that's half of one Linden dollar -- per meter in many places. 0.9 is not uncommon even for good land; I bought some very good waterfront from $1.5/meter the other day.

So your notion of "scalping" is just based on a few impressions. Yes, there are certain areas of high value like Bay City or Zindra or certain old waterfront that is hugely high-priced. You're not required to buy it. You can shop for a better deal.

Linden Lab should not regulate this market that they already heavily interfere in through control of currency and cashout (there is not a free market in currency as it is artificially depressed and recently lost a point in value); the auctions are not transprarent and the abandoned land policy sometimes inconsistent.

Since you can in many cases ask to buy abandoned land at $1/m, no one should be complaining about prices.

Land scalpers are there to buy your land when you want to dump it and get something for it rather than nothing if you abandon it. And they make back their losses on high prices. Again, in this market, with GADZILLION parcels available for hugely low prices, often very nice ones, and the auction prices often low, it's just crazy to demand regulation because some parcel you saw somewhere struck you as overpriced.

You're entitled to your opinion, but not your facts -- the facts are as anyone can see from a cursory look at the auctions, the land lists, the world, that the "scalping" thing is only applicable in certain areas like Zindra.

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I will add that while I don't really like to see the land market working the way it does either, it's hard to say it is wrong. If you are qualified to buy it outright from a private seller, you also could have bid at auction.

But beethros, you are in error on an important point. It is correct to say that you cannot buy land at an auction for a group. If you don't have the room at your available tier level when you purchase, yes, you will automatically be upgraded to the next higher level if you win the auction.

Where you are incorrect is believing that you must wait until after your tier date before contributing it to a group. I have done this plenty of times already. When you deed land to a group, you are able to donate the tier for the group at the same time - the simultaneous action is one of the options when deeding the land. The only way this extra charge happens is if you have tier donated to a group that you need for your purchase at the time of this purchase.

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Re:

When someone win an auction they need to wait 1 month (actually until their next tier date) if they want the land to be deeded in a group or else SL will charge them double tier...


This makes no sense to me. There is an easy cure for this -- put the tier on your avatar as an individual, so that when the automatic system assigns you the parcel, it does not up your tier level.

To be sure, you have to first have that tier by selling or abandoning land down to that level.

But then you can deed it to the group.

This works MOST of the time for me although I did once forget and get dinged ANd another time despite having put the tier on myself still got tiered up in an odd way and had to ticket it and get it reversed -- which Lindens hate to do.

Really, they need to go back to the old system where after an auction, you yourself went to that parcel and purchased it -- it would be set to your name. Then you could opt to buy as an individual or "buy as group".

The Lindens ended this convenient system as people left those parcels too long before pick-up to avoid tier.

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Personally, I don't think it needs, or should have, any more regulation than it already has.

The basic reason is that available land, isn't exactly that limited. There is tons of land out there, in all kinds of price ranges going from dirt cheap to extremely overpriced, and everything in between.

If someone buys a parcel cheap, and then chooses to resell at a higher value and can actually get that price, good on them. No one forced the buyer to pay that higher price, it was the buyer's choice.

I don't think being angry, upset by or, whatever...towards people that buy cheap and sell at a higher price is a reasonable response to most things. It happens in all walks of life, virtual or real. Do you think stores pay distributors/manufacturers the same price they charge their customers? The same concept applies here.

If I don't like a price on a particular parcel, I don't pay it. I'm not forced to pay it just because I like it. I can move on and find something else. It certainly isn't a big deal, imo. 

Land sales have pretty much worked this way since quite early on, with very little to no change. I highly doubt after all this time, LL is going to start making changes, lol. Most folks are likely quite content with things the way they are. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion ont he matter, though. If you don't like the price, or think someone is charging more than a parcel is worth, just don't buy it. If that particular seller finds that interest just isn't there, he or she will either lower the price until interest picks up and someone does like the price, or possibly even abandon it.

You can absolutely loathe the price points some people use to sell land, and still enjoy the auction/buy/own aspects of land. You just ignore the stuff you're not interested in, and stick with the stuff you are. People that snatch uyp land swiftly at cheap prices, although they exist, aren't as high in number as they once were. Lots of folks manage getting land dirt cheap, that aren't resellers and just bid/buy for their own enjoyment.

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Some time ago, my tier was up to 1 full sim...

I wanted to upgrade a little so i started biding on the auctions.

I bid as much to have 2 full sims.. and i was deeding every parcels i was wining to my groups.

But when I looked to my account summary the system was asking from me to pay tier for 3 sims.

I had to send a ticket to LL and ask them explanations.

They told me exactly what i said above. And they lower my tier to 2 full sims after my request.

But since then, I never deed any parcels that i had won in auctions before my tier billing date...

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With whatever happened to you back then, there was either a bad communication of events from the lab to you, a mishandling that wasn't explained well, or something along those lines. It likely isn't even possible for anyone else to say exactly what happened without seeing more details than you could or should share here.

I am sure it does not work this way for any time I have purchased from the auction, and as Prokofy noted, it does not even make sense. There is no way I can see that LL could justify this in any explanation of how land tier payments are figured. As confusing as it is, they still have the way it works spelled out so that it can be predicted.

Unexpected charges come from the reality that they never lower your tier level automatically - neither from what you choose in your account settings, nor what you donate to groups, even if you or the group do not need that level of tier. They will however, automatically raise your tier level when you buy from the auction if you do not have enough available which is not donated to a group.

Once you possess the land, the tier level to allow for it is already decided. You can deed and donate tier accordingly to what you have. To take full advantage of the group bonus is not so easy when you are against your limits while buying from auction. One simple way is to have a friend (or alt) with available tier to donate temporarily, for the little time it takes between buying and deeding to make up the difference between what the group can hold that an individual cannot.

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ViktorStorm wrote:

I see a lot of land go up for auction, and peope getting it an selling it for 2 -3 times as much as they paid for it.  I see this to be a problem, as people that want land cant get it, but the land scaplers eat up the auction land for cheap or drive the price sky high, and sell it to rip people off, and dont give people a chance to have fun bidding on land, and have fun owning it.

If it's any comfort to you: I'm standing on a  piece of land at a once very popular sim right now. It was bought on auction at a ridiculous price by somebody who immediately put it up for sale at an even more ridiculous price. Almost two years later it is still for sale. I honestly can't imagine anybody ever buying it but even if that happens, there's no way the seller will be able to cover the tier they've had to pay in the meantime.

That's what usually happens these days. Auctioned land is bought by optimists who haven't realized the SL unreal estate market has collapsed and will end up paying more in tier whilst trying to sell the land than they'll ever make from it.

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