How To Build-a-Troll. And How Not To.

[Derek Torvalar]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

---

Derek Torvalar wrote:

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

---

Derek Torvalar wrote:

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

I like to differentiate between "derails" and possibly fruitful and interesting digressions.

Perhaps, again, we too often leap to unwarranted conclusions about the intent and value of so-called "derails"?

---

One would then necessarily question the nature of the fruit you are trying to harvest.

Again, it becomes a question of General or Specific. Value judgements are irrelevant.

---

Either of those presupposes the deliberate violation of some kind of code that the accused does, or should, know about. Most online communities have no such "code" in an accessible form. So, determining the unwritten norms that govern how a community behaves becomes an act of interpretation on the part of the poster. 

 

It would be like not having written laws, but arguing that a criminal should have known by hanging around long enough that this or that was against what a community generally allowed.

That seems to imply something that goes well beyond 'due diligence" from the putative troll. And again, it suggests that the troll is only a troll because she or he doesn't fit in with the norms exhibited by other members of the community, rather than an intent to violate specific codes. 

---

I disagree, as 'most' online communities do indeed have codes of conduct. Whether they are readily accessible may be of question and is probably determined more by the abilities of each individual to navigate.

The codes themselves may be open to interpretation which depends of  course on the ability to concisely present them in a manner that communicates their intent. It isn't an easy task to write in concrete language and as is demonstrated here every day, most are obstinately opposed to adhering to its content, preferring instead to behave in childishly defiant behaviour characterizing emotional dysregulation.

---

It took me some searching to find the community guidelines for this place. I doubt very much that any but a very few fairly frequent posters have ever read them. So arguably they don't explain the phenomenon that I've tried to describe.

Your last comment kind of embodies the sort of subjective response to other people's posts that I've also been describing. But it also raises an interesting question: if the majority of posters don't adhere to the written "rules," in what sense are the written rules a valid description of the social interactions in that place?

---

Really? The link is posted at the top of the page under 'Community Guidelines', although it  might not have always been there. I usually get the link sent to me when the mods deign to provide me with a notification when they pull one of my posts.

I agree that very few have ever read them and of those even less probably don't understand them or how to apply them they are so badly written or ill-conceived.

They are not meant to be descriptions of what occurs but boundaries and expectations of what should transpire.

[LaskyaClaren]

The Community Guidelines seem reasonably specific and detailed, although there is bound to be a subjective element in the judgement of things such as "flaming." How often have you had someone who is not a mod cite these in responding to you? Not very often, I'd bet.

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that the only really substantive replies I've had in this thread about the nature of trolling are from the two regulars here most likely to be characterized as "trolls" by others in this community (vide. Londyn8, Bobbie, Cerise, SYNBOD, Heart, LondieMonroe, et al.).

Possibly you and Mr. Llong are the exceptions to what I am talking about, however, because I think you have both gone out of your way to set yourselves up as "outsiders" here.

 

[Derek Torvalar]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

The Community Guidelines seem reasonably specific and detailed, although there is bound to be a subjective element in the judgement of things such as "flaming."

How often have you had someone who is 

not

a mod cite these in responding to you? Not very often, I'd bet.

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that the only really substantive replies I've had in this thread about the nature of trolling are from the two regulars here most likely to be characterized as "trolls" by others in this community (

vide

. Londyn8, Bobbie, Cerise, SYNBOD, Heart, LondieMonroe,

et al

.).

Possibly you and Mr. Llong are the exceptions to what I am talking about, however, because I think you have both gone out of your way to set yourselves up as "outsiders" here.

 

---

Today?

That is a bet you would lose.

;-)

[LlewLlwyd]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

 How often have you had someone who is 

not

a mod cite these in responding to you?

---

In fact, the mods don't necessarily refer to specifics, or even that you have transgressed the Community Guidelines. If they are feeling extremely lazy, or perhaps if they are weekend mods (ie Lindens forced to give up their free time and consequently not at all au fait with the official LL protocols) they may simply cite "TOS violation" which is even more unhelpful and unspecific than the fuzzy language in which the Guidelines are written.

[Oh, Llazarus said to say hi, but he has been detained in "Wales" for a while and won't be able to participate further in this thread.]

[LlewLlwyd]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

 

Possibly you and Mr. Llong are the exceptions to what I am talking about, however, because I think you have both gone out of your way to set yourselves up as "outsiders" here.

 

---

On the contrary, although perhaps you are not aware of it as you have been absent rather than lurking, Derek and Mr Llong have established recent reputations as insiders, working hand in glove with the Community Manager, Xenophobia Linden (I can never remember her real name) in her initiative to clean up the forums, and in particular to ensure that the General Discussion forum contains threads which relate to its purpose as described in the Forums summary page, not to act as a dustbin for lazy noobs to dump their simple problems in when there are Cut and Paste experts enthusiastically waiting in the ANSWERS section to point out what could be found in a minimum of time, assuming you can spell , or even use a spell-checker.

[DejaHo]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

troll n.  

[

/

trəʊl

/]

 

Computing

slang

.

A person who posts deliberately erroneous or antagonistic messages to a newsgroup or similar forum with the intention of eliciting a hostile or corrective response. Also: a message of this type. [

OED

]

 

---

Sometimes I am a troll.

Or so I have on occasion been told.

Or . . . maybe I'm just trolling you all now?

---

All I ever wanted was to be a successful troll.  But, no.  Instead I was labeled a pornographer, a pedophile, a **bleep**, a pimp, a poet, homophobic, a racist; and those were only from the LWL.  All I ever wanted to do was troll.  What a fail.

 

[LlewLlwyd]

---

DejaHo wrote:

All I ever wanted was to be a successful troll.  But, no.  Instead I was labeled a pornographer, a pedophile, a **bleep**, a pimp, a poet, homophobic, a racist; and those were only from the LWL.  All I ever wanted to do was troll.  What a fail.

 

---

It's because you posted an image of yourself in a dress.

The LWL restrict their insults if they think that you might actually have a feminine side.

Having XYY Syndrome myself, I have never been accused of that.

[LaskyaClaren]

Well, apocalpytic predictions of the demise of the General Discussion forum here have been an established genre for at least as long as I've posted here or in its previous incarnations.

It looks to me as though its time to move on to elegy.

I remember saying, maybe a year ago or so, that obviously the new forum community liked it "quieter" here, and that that preference was their right. I'd congratulate them on establishing the Peace of the Grave, except that there is almost no one left to accept it.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there is a community here that extends further than the four very familiar old faces who've bothered to post on this thread, but I'm not seeing it. Llazarus, Deja, Celestiall, and especially Derek, thanks for taking the time to do so. I wish you well in your new demesne, which seems to be pretty much your own to do with as  you see fit.

See you on the other side, as they say.

[LlewLlwyd]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

Well, apocalpytic predictions of the demise of the General Discussion forum here have been an established genre for at least as long as I've posted here or in its previous incarnations.

It looks to me like as though its time to move on to elegy.

I remember saying, maybe a year ago or so, that obviously the new forum community liked it "quieter" here, and that that preference was their right. I'd congratulate them on establishing the Peace of the Grave, except that there is almost no one left to accept it.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there is a community here that extends further than the four very familiar old faces who've bothered to post on this thread, but I'm not seeing it. Llazarus, Deja, Celestiall, and especially Derek, thanks for taking the time to do so. I wish you well in your new demesne, which seems to be pretty much your own to do with as  you see fit.

See you on the other side, as they say.

---

Sometimes you have to tear down the house to rebuild it.

[Damn, that sounds like a validation of Ebbe's doomed-to-failure SL V2]

[DejaHo]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

 

It looks to me as though its time to move on to elegy.

I remember saying, maybe a year ago or so, that obviously the new forum community liked it "quieter" here, and that that preference was their right.

I'd congratulate them on establishing the Peace of the Grave

, except that there is almost no one left to accept it.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there is a community here that extends further than the four very familiar old faces who've bothered to post on this thread, but I'm not seeing it. Llazarus,

Deja

, Celestiall, and especially Derek, thanks for taking the time to do so. I wish you well in your new demesne, which seems to be pretty much your own to do with as  you see fit.

 

---

Pfft!  No reason to piss on my parade. 

I came back when all the trolls left.  I'm happier now.

 

[Derek Torvalar]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

Well, apocalpytic predictions of the demise of the General Discussion forum here have been an established genre for at least as long as I've posted here or in its previous incarnations.

It looks to me as though its time to move on to elegy.

I remember saying, maybe a year ago or so, that obviously the new forum community liked it "quieter" here, and that that preference was their right. I'd congratulate them on establishing the Peace of the Grave, except that there is almost no one left to accept it.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there is a community here that extends further than the four very familiar old faces who've bothered to post on this thread, but I'm not seeing it. Llazarus, Deja, Celestiall, and especially Derek, thanks for taking the time to do so. I wish you well in your new demesne, which seems to be pretty much your own to do with as  you see fit.

See you on the other side, as they say.

---

The pity is that the 'regulars' who reside here now cannot recognize an actual discussion thread when they see one.

Adieu Lasky

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

I'm not sure, really, what that means, because the "results" in question are often nothing more than the holding of unpopular views, and/or their articulation in a form that may not conform to the particular standards of a community.

---

 

 

 

---

 

Uh, no.  That's the annoyance.  The results are us being annoyed.   Sheesh.  

 

 

---

LaskyaClaren wrote:

I'd have thought that a libertarian would be upholding the right of an individual to articulate her or his views, however unpopular (or annoying!), in the face of a pile-on by the community?

---

You're confusing two different ideas.   I do uphold anyone's ability to post, no matter how nonsensical.   But, that doesn't mean I don't also find it nonsense. 

 

As a libertarian I would support your right to your own blog, 100%.  But, this isn't your blog.  It's a privately owned forum.   Our rights (mine included) don't apply the same here.  LL decided that.   (So, as long as LL is chill, you're fine  ; )    But, I can still be annoyed, and make an effort, to get you to discuss something other than topics that don't interest me.

[Venus Petrov]

I'm late to this OP.  Apologies.  I do not come here as often as I used to because it has become a boring place.  *crickets*

I just want you to know that I never considered you a 'troll', rather, you provoke discussion and exchange of ideas.  Sure, some get hot about a topic and confuse it with the poster and I have been guilty of that at times. 

I would much rather this space be one where exchanges can get heated and, well, fun!  Unfortunately, the coven has put a wet blanket on everything.  zzzzzzzzz