why am i crashing???

[Pips Emerald]

hi

first of all let me share my system specs

Second Life 2.4.0 (216989) Dec 15 2010 06:48:45 (Second Life Release)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU         650  @ 3.20GHz (3200.17 MHz)
Memory: 4023 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit  (Build 7600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 460/PCI/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0012.6658
OpenGL Version: 4.1.0

now...i have downloaded the latest graphics card drivers. everything is working fine. even the internet connection is working uninterupted and i still cant manage to stay logged on for more than 10 mins...WHYYYYY???? what am i missing???

plzzzz heeeelp!!

[Peewee Musytari]

What Router do you have?

Is this a new problem and things used to work ok?

What have you changed since SL last worked properly?

[Pips Emerald]

thanx for the reply...yes it was working just fine before i upgraded my system to i5 and the gtx460. before i had a core 2 duo with nividia 7300.

this is happening on even the 3rd party viewers like phoenix. also in viewer 2 i get a message at login "you system contains a graphics card that second life doesn't recognize"...its only a friggin gtx460...why is it so hard to recognize?

other than that i dont get any error message or black screen. i stay logged in for like 10 or 12 mins then suddenly im out.

my FPS is fine over 35

sim FPS sometimes goes a bit low to 38 momentarily

bandwidth suddenly drops from couple of hundred to zero.

im usually able to sort things out on my own through blogs etc but this one is really driving me nuts

[Peewee Musytari]

You didn`t say which router you use, as there are some that cause similar sudden death crashes after always the same amount of minutes. Did you change your Router when you upgraded or is it one that has always worked with SL before?

To check if it is definately related to your graphics card, as the message suggests (though sometimes those messages are totally unrelated to the problem lol ) try installing a client with no graphics (such as Radegast) and see if you still get kicked offline with that.

[Pips Emerald]

thanx for the suggestion...radegast is working fine and doesn't crash...im using a dsl modem huawei HG510. i was using it when things were ok. now im begining to think its the graphics card. wud like to meet someone using the same nvidia geforce gtx460...its a pretty high end card. one wud expect it to work like a charm

[Peewee Musytari]

OK that helps to know that everything works fine without the graphics. Next I would login and go to your graphics settings in preferences and start but turning them all down to minumum & then generally fiddling with things in there to see where the problem lies.

If you are still able to edit the title of your thread, you could also add the name of your graphics card in there and hopefully catch the attention of someone that knows more about that specific card.

[Pips Emerald]

anyone out there using this graphics card and the following specs have any issues?

 

CPU: Intel® Core i5 CPU         650  @ 3.20GHz (3200.17 MHz)
Memory: 4023 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit  (Build 7600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 460/PCI/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0012.6658
OpenGL Version: 4.1.0

[Nyll Bergbahn]

The message regarding your graphics card is irrelevant. Just means the GTX 460 has not been added yet to the gpu_table as it's a fairly new card. I'm sure it will be in the gpu_table for viewer 2.5.You need to set your graphics manually to High or Ultra, whichever you want. You can stop SL examining your hardware on startup.

Right click on your start menu shortcut for SL and select Properties.

Under the Shortcut tab on the box that opens up, look for the section Target. This will look something like this:

C:\Program Files (x86)\SecondLife\SecondLife.exe" --set InstallLanguage en

Now add --noprobe after the end of it with a gap between en and --noprobe so it looks like this:

C:\Program Files (x86)\SecondLife\SecondLife.exe" --set InstallLanguage en -noprobe

Click Apply

I assume you tried clearing your cache and if not, try that now.

You say you upgraded your CPU and GPU. Did you also upgrade your PSU to cope with the extra power needed. Can your computer's cooling system manage to keep the inside cool enough now after the upgrades as SL is a very demanding application and perhaps you're taxing it too much after 10 minutes or so. Run a hardware monitor to check CPU and GPU temperatures. Open Hardware Monitor is a good one http://openhardwaremonitor.org/

Nyll

[Pips Emerald]

thanx nyll

for helping me get rid of those messages. they're gone. but the crashing is still there. and yes i have heavy power supply to go with the graphics card. now i reduced the graphics quality to minimum "low" and now it dont crash on me. this doesn't really make me very happy after spending that much money on the card i still have to play on "low"? that sucks!!! so though im not crashing anymore but my SL experience has deteriorated

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Start with the simplest first.  You said you updated your graphics card driver......that's a good first step.  You're still having the issue so another simple step (even simpler than updating a driver) is to reset your modem.  Just shut down your computer, unplug the modem from it's electrical source, wait 3 to 5 minutes and plug it back in.  Reboot you computer and try SL again.......that should fix any loss of connection problem you might be mistaking for a crash (it's common to relate lost connection to a crash because you can't do anything except to close SL, but it's not technically a crash).

 

Could you describe what you see when you "crash"?  And any dialog/error messages you see when it happens?  The most blatant clue to a crash would be to suddenly find yourself staring at your desktop unexpectedly.  The blatant clue for lost connection is a dialog telling you that you have been logged out and that you can continue to read chat history and a choice to quit or continue..........continuing only allows you to read chat that has been received when you were connected but you can't chat or IM or TP or do anything else but maybe spin your avatar in circles.  Those are just two the common symptoms but there are many other ways a crash or lost connection may be experienced.

 

One more thing that caught my attention.  You said you upgraded your system from a Core 2 Dual to an i5 CPU and from a GF7300 card to a GTX460.  If you did that using the same computer case you would also have to upgrade your motherboard (due to the CPU upgrade).  There's nothing wrong with doing that even though upgrading the CPU, motherboard and graphics card entails the three most expensive components to a computer.......it's usually more cost effective to go ahead to spend the few dollars you saved by keep the rest of you computer and getting a whole new computer.  But, that's not my question.  If you did upgrade and not get a new computer, did you also upgrade your power supply?  Both the i5 and the 460 card require more power to run properly (in some cases to even run at all).  An nVidia GTX460 is spec'd for 400 watt minimum power supply.  You're old system with a Core 2 Dual and a 7300 card would run perfectly fine with 300 watts (or maybe even less).  See where I'm headed?  What is your power supply's rated output wattage?  If you got a new computer that should be in your owners manual........but computer manufacturers are notorious for scrimping on power supplies (the reasoning escapes me since a power supply is among the least expensive components of a computer).

 

Okay you answered my question about the PS while I was typing my response......the hazzards of typing slow. 

 

Message was edited by: Peggy.Paperdoll

[Pips Emerald]

OH BUGGER!!!

 

thanx peggy for the response. turning off modem didnt help:) yes i upgraded everything including motherboard.

and now the problem remains even in low graphics setting when i entered a slightly populated sim. once againi got logged off i.e. the reading IMs or quit option. another thing i noticed i could still listen to the sim music even when my bandwidth went to 0 and i couldn't move until i clicked quit. which means my connection isn't lost just got disconnected from SL. is this really a graphics card issue or something else. now im really upset and back to square 1...

[Peggy Paperdoll]

It might be graphics card related but I think it's probably something else.  Have you checked your download speed?  Your speed should be pretty close to what your  ISP advertises for your level of service......not less than about 3/4.   If it's lower then call your ISP to find out why.  If it's about right then it might be that your speed at your level of service is just not enough to handle what you are downloading from the servers (you can lower you bandwidth in the viewer preferrences).  Most DSL's deliver 768 kbps.  SL to run decent requires a little more than 500 kbps speed........so if you are marginal you might have to either learn to live with lower settings or up your service to a higher level.  Modems and routers can be overwhelmed with data flow so maybe a newer and better modem will help too (you didn't mention anything about a router, but, if you have one, consideration about replacing that might be in order).

 

http://www.speedtest.net/

 

There is one other thing I forgot to mention in my first post.  And forgive me if you already know this.  The GTX460 card has a separate power connection to the power supply that needs to be connected for maximum performance.  The card will run without connecting it but you're living dangerously since the onboard cooling fans will not be running and there is a very real danger of overheating your card......even completely destroying it.  Check that connection for tightness and proper connection.  Your card is perfectly capable of running SL at Ultra settings and 256 meter draw distance and still maintain decent FPS in a moderately populated and textured sim........but the rest of your system has be capable too.  You got the GPU and CPU part covered (and probably RAM too).  But there obviously is a problem......just don't get frustrated and someone will hit on the solution.

 

Oh........media playing after you lose connection to the SL servers is common.  Media is not delivered via the SL servers.....it comes from the servers that the media originates from.  If you are getting logged off then you are losing the connection to the servers.........you say that's what's happening so I"m going to stay on that vain and assume neither your computer or the viewer is crashing.  I think it's a connection problem and, though, graphics cards don't normally cause such a problem they can contribute.

 

Forgot to include the link to test your speed.

 

Message was edited by: Peggy.Paperdoll

[Peewee Musytari]

I`m liking the PSU theory, it would also explain why you managed to stay connected on Radegast as without the graphics that would be using far less power.

I recently had all sorts of problems with my computer, none of which made any sense and when it finally had to go to puter hospital it turned out to be a faulty PSU, I was amazed at the weird things that it affected, I had assumed if the PSU was faulty the computer just wouldn`t work...Live and learn eh lol

On the brightside if yours does turn out to be the PSU, they are cheap to replace

[Pips Emerald]

thanx guys for your continous support. here r the latest developments:

1- checked speed through speedtest.com and it comes to just about what the isp promises i.e. 4 mbps. (i get 3.5)

2- the power supply is silverstone 500w. the minimum required for gtx460 is 400w. so no problem there

3- tried playing other graphics intensive games such as resident evil 5 and just cause 2. they run perfectly fine

4- in the ctrl-shift-1 window fps fluctuates between 90 and 15 fps depending on the sim population. bandwidth starts from over 300 and drops suddenly to 0. sim fps stays almost stable on 44 but sometimes goes down to as low as 22. ping time is always higher than 300 (i assume it should be lower for the network light to turn green in lag meter)

5- running SL on "low" settings work well in empty sims but not in slightly populated ones. setting on "ultra" brings fps down to 9fps.

6- downloaded a file while running SL. at the dropout the download remained unaffected i.e. when bandwidth came to 0, the download stayed around 3.5kbps  suggesting the connectino was stable.

 

the problem stays unresolved

[Nyll Bergbahn]

I doubt it's the graphics card or driver.

Seems more like a network issue between your computer and Second Life.

Are you seeing packet loss at all when things start going wrong?

Ping time seems high at 300. I'm in Ireland and my ping time is usually 180-190. 300 is the sort of time things start to go wrong.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/How_do_I_check_for_packet_loss_(network_lag)%3F

Nyll

[Nyll Bergbahn]

Two more queries:

What is your Disk Cache slider set at?

What is your Bandwith slider set at?

Nyll

[Pips Emerald]

disk cache at 1000

bandwidth at 500

 

tried something new this time. connected my laptop with the dsl cable. same problem on that too. so i have reason to believe my system/cpu is fine. its the connection problem.  now downloading bandwidth monitoring software so i can see the exact shift in bandwidth at the time of dropout. will post the outcome

[Peewee Musytari]

Mine pings at 180-200 like Nylls with 0% packet loss. Your 300 does seem high and SL is very sensitive to Packet Loss (according to a convo I had with LiveChat last year).

Are you getting any Packet Loss?

[Nyll Bergbahn]

Try setting your bandwith slider to 1500 kbps. Although the slider allows a far greater limit, far as I know, SL itself imposes a 1500 kbps limit and given your network speed, you should be able to handle that easily. If you do see packet loss, you can reduce it a bit.

Nyll

[Pips Emerald]

nothing works plz view the screen vidz...thats whats been happening...fps fine, ping fine, no packet loss, just bandwidth drops to 0 (sometimes it doesnt)...hate to say this but i might have to quit SL *very sad face*

[Nyll Bergbahn]

I can't really read the stats on the movies but I see what's happening. The only thing left I can think of is that you are being partially disconnected from the SL servers perhaps by a firewall or other security software. You would need to disable these for a while to see if that is the cause or else check the wiki articles on firewalls.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Is_my_firewall_responsible_for_problems_with_Second_Life%3F

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/How_do_I_configure_my_software_firewall_(such_as_Norton_Internet_Security,_McAfee_Personal_Firewall,_or_ZoneAlarm)%3F

Nyll

[Peggy Paperdoll]

A couple questions still come to my mind.  I'm more or less convinced the problem does not originate with either your graphics card or your CPU.  I'm also sure the problem does not originate with LL's servers or network for those servers.  Your pings are a little high but not so much to constantly drop your connection like it appears to happen.  But, connection problems are a network problem or hardware related to a network.

 

My questions:  How do you connect to your modem?  If you are connected wirelessly it's very possible that that is your problem.  There is almost infinite possibilities for outside interferring signals to cause problems and, also, simply weak signals between your computer and the modem.  I made the assumption you were connected via an ethernet Cat 5e cable.........if you aren't then try "hardwiring" your connection (it's much more reliable and stable).  Second question is when you upgraded your system did you also upgrade your network interface device?  Like any hardware device a NIC has drivers.  On board NIC's usually have the drivers incorporated with the motherboard drivers.  However, when you installed the drivers for the motherboard you might have had the option to exclude certain drivers from installing......if you did, and that was one of the things you opted not to install then that could be the problem.  The NIC (like a video card) will still "work" because Windows will use some generic driver if one is not present.........but it won't necessarily work correctly.  And then there's the possibility that the driver is corrupted even if you did install it.

 

Here's another test you can do since your pings are up in the 200 ms range.  On the speedtest.net site there's a ping test with the same set of test servers to test against.  Do some tests to both San Francisco, and Dallas.  Then do a test to the closest test server to your location.  Depending on the physical distance the pings will vary (of course) but if your pings to one of the LL server locations is substanially higher than the others the problem may be the routing your ISP directs your connection back to LL's servers..........there's not anything you can do about that except to contact your ISP (they may not know it's a bad connection themselves....it's worth a phone call anyway).  An example from my memory the last time I did  ping tests would be: 10 to my closest test server, 25 to San Francisco, and 40 to Dallas (I'm in the Los Angeles area in Southern California.  About 400 land miles to San Francisco and about 1800 miles to Dallas.......less than 25 miles to the closest test server location).  If you're in Europe I wouldn't think 150 to 200 ping is unexpected (in fact it seems pretty good).  If all your pings are high then it's probably going to be your local network.

 

Just some ideas to see if anything helps.

[Pips Emerald]

hiya

ok i did the ping tests here r the results

dallas ping: 279

san fransisco ping: 370

my nearest ping: 209

and im using a wired connection with the modem through ethernet cable. i know its not my computer coz i tried on my laptop and same problem occurs (my laptop is i7 4gig ram ati 4670 graphics). and i tried to turn off windows firewall but that didnt help either.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Two computers doing the same thing and that 209 ping to the closest test server points heavily to your modem.  Possibly the cable itself if you used it to connect your laptop.  If you can borrow a modem, switch it out.  If your ISP owns the modem have them replace it for you.  If it were me (I own my modem.........I have a cable connection to the Internet) I'd replace it.  You could see if there is a new firmware update for the modem but that's sometimes a bigger pain in the butt than getting a new one.

[Pips Emerald]

lol how would i prove theres anything wrong with the modem when all internet apps r running fine. skype, yourtube, live music streaming even radegast everything works. but still ill give them a call tomorrow morning. thanx:)

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Because those do not have the same amount of data flowing back and forth from server to your computer............not even a tenth as much.  Almost like comparing a drippy faucett to a fire hose at 100 psi (well, that's an exaggeration but you get the point.  )

 

There is one more thing I would do that I forgot in my post.  Call your ISP and have them ping your modem from their servers.  It could be in their lines back to their equipement.