llSetKeyframedMotion - griefing?

[Paul Hexem]

So, we've been getting griefer reports at the sims where I'm a manager. People are getting pushed by prims that they can't see, and that aren't showing up in collision scripts or in the viewer's pushes/bumps.

The speculation is that they're using a megaprim bigger than draw distance, and llSetKeyframedMotion. Any thoughts on this?

[LepreKhaun]

My take on it would be:

Report the incidents, let LL investigate to determine how the griefing is being accomplished and let them take whatever steps is required to stop it.

 

I can think of two other techniques that might give the same results as you describe. However, I wouldn't share them in a public forum since I'd feel I'd be making some griefer's job easier. Discussion of security exploits, loopholes and workarounds (whether griefer based, copy bot oriented or account threatening) are best left for the Jira imo.

[Paul Hexem]

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LepreKhaun wrote:

Report the incidents, let LL investigate to determine how the griefing is being accomplished and let them take whatever steps is required to stop it.

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The problem is, we've been doing that for weeks, simply reporting it. This is not an isolated incident. In one case, the person is bypassing the estate ban and coming back to use the same trick on our renters again.

At this point we suspect the AR's are going to get us nowhere, and like everything else, we have to start monitoring it ourselves (which we do for other specific script functions and griefer tools). Thus this thread.

[LepreKhaun]

I understand your problem and its frustrations. I hope you all the best in dealing with the issue.

[Erik Verity]

My understanding is that estate bans actually do not work that well all of the time and you should use Parcel bans if you are having that problem. I know that means a ban entry for each parcel in the region, but that's what it takes to make it more dependable.

[Xiija]

could you use a sensor & use

llReturnObjectsByOwner   http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlReturnObjectsByOwner

if they are not in the group or on a whitelist?

 

[Erik Verity]

That would be a laggy and ineffective way (sensors have a limited range) of trying to do something you can do better using estate management tools already available in the viewer.

I would think it might be easier to not get pushing data from the viewer than you might realize. A relog will clear it, for one thing. If disabling pushing stops it, that would prove it. You would need to restrict who can deed objects to group also, since that is a way around it.  I don't see any real gain trying to analyze scripting functions that might be used either - use the land management controls and contact support if you need to. Sitting will stop you from being pushed. llKeyframedMotion is probably the weakest function for greifing anyway; it won't affect an avatar that is flying or hovering either.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Try getting some avatars who are regularly pushed like this to wear a sphere 3m in diameter, with a script inside it which has a collision_start event. In the collision start event, get the name of the collding object, it's key, it's owner name, it's detected position and chat these or IM them to a collector. Sift through this data, weeding out collisions with known objects, and hopefully you will end up with name to pass to Linden Labs

[Paul Hexem]

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Profaitchikenz Haiku wrote:

Try getting some avatars who are regularly pushed like this to wear a sphere 3m in diameter, with a script inside it which has a collision_start event. In the collision start event, get the name of the collding object, it's key, it's owner name, it's detected position and chat these or IM them to a collector. Sift through this data, weeding out collisions with known objects, and hopefully you will end up with name to pass to Linden Labs

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Doesn't work. The function was designed (someone at LL didn't think this through) not to trigger collision events.

[Paul Hexem]

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Xiija wrote:

could you use a sensor & use

llReturnObjectsByOwner  

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlReturnObjectsByOwner

if they are not in the group or on a whitelist?

 

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We've got around 200 sims, many of them public. A whitelist is out of the question, even if sensors were a good idea.

[Erik Verity]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

 

Doesn't work. The function was designed (someone at LL didn't think this through) not to trigger collision events.

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Since you seem convinced its a script using keyframed motion - the object this script is in ITSELF won't get a collision event, which is hard to call an oversight since one of its purposes is not to overburden the simulator - to be an alternative to physical objects. From the wiki:

 

Collisions with other nonphysical or keyframed objects will be ignored (no script events will fire and collision processing will not occur). Collisions with physical objects will be computed and reported, but the keyframed object will be unaffected by those collisions. (The physical object will be affected, however.)

 

That suggests to me that the limit is only for itself.

Also, collisions with avatars can distort its own path. I haven't tested myself, and not inwold now, but I have an idea that even though it will move an avatar standing on a platform of an object using this function, I'm not sure it is capable of pushing an avatar.

I do know that even a moving platform that is using keyframed motion will not affect an avatar that is flying or hovering. Start flying while in an elevator moving you using this function and you will suddenly find it broken. You might want to test before deciding this function is being used this way, although I don't see a need to analyze the griefing method that bad from a user's point of view.

[Paul Hexem]

Filed a JIRA. Soft Linden confirmed that the function does not register in the viewer bumps/hits, and that it should. Guess all we can do now is wait and see.