Let this be a Grave Warning to All Merchants ...

[Vegro Solari]

Just joking, it's not really that bad.  :matte-motes-evil-grin:

But, .... did you know that if you make stuff with scripts  "NO MOD",  sometimes (randomly) Secondlife will make them MOD, and your users will be able to look in them and mess around.  No, I didn't know that either!!!

Here's the story, somebody got an item from me via Marketplace, which has a few no mod scripts, and a full-perm notecard in it where you can change settings. The problem was, this customer couldn't open the full-perm notecard. Instead she could open all the no-mod techy scripts inside which were, of course, confusing.

First I double checked the item, the exact one that is up on marketplace:  notecard is fullperm, all scripts are COPY only, and the object is COPY only.  Weird, right? Then, I manually re-sent the object;  but you know what? The customer still had the same problem with the resent object (I dragged it from inventory, no Marketplace invovled this time), can't open the notecard, but can open the no-mod scripts instead!

Bemused, I set the object to MOD, COPY instead and resent it.  Now they could finally edit the notecard!

Determined to get to the bottom of it, I bought my own item at the marketplace and sent it to a friend "as gift", then asked them to check it for me. Our findings were that you could edit the fullperm notecard just fine, and the no-mod scripts were not editable. In other words, it was all as you would have reasonably expected! The object was not changed or updated on marketplace in any way between when the customer with the problem got it, and when I re-ordered it from myself for my friend. It should be the exact same object.

I think the overall moral of the story is that, if you have things inside scripts that you don't want people to have, like encryption keys for in-world rpgs, breedables or whatever,  then maybe you shouldn't.  And instead try to somehow do it with an outside webserver or similar.  I've heard of No-Mod stuff magically going Mod by itself before, but now I know that's not just rumors, it keeps on randomly happening...

(Also why did making the object "Mod,Copy" from it's original state of "Copy only" suddenly let the customer access the inexplicably blocked full perm notecard inside of the object? That seems like there are errors or transient glitches in server code related to permissions. )

[iCade]

Not to be a pessimist, but are you sure the costumer couldn't access the notecard and this wasn't just a ploy to con you into giving them the modable scripts/product?

[Theresa Tennyson]

If you're changing permissions on an object it's a bad idea to only change them in your inventory without rezzing it. The safe way to do it is to rezz the object, change the permissions by editing and then taking it into your inventory. The inventory servers are a different environment from the rezzed world and changes made in inventory don't take effect until the object is rezzed. If you distribute the object without ever rezzing it sometimes the changes never occur for the distributed copies.

[Vegro Solari]

That's a good point Theresa, but in this case I definitely rezzed, checked the perms (were correct), resent -- and still the customer couldn't edit what they should be editing, and could edit the scripto-jumbo which was all No Mod.

We know it wasn't a customer ploy, since I make ambient sound-machines mostly (this was one of those).  There's no benefit from having a mod version of this, the prims in it are just default spheres, and go transparent/disappear when clicked anyway. Or extra copies of it since the thing comes as Copy...

I was as surprised by this surprise as you.

 

[Vegro Solari]

An ongoing update on this "from the trenches" for you guys.

A different customer sent me an IM today, describing the exact same problem. Good thing we know how to fix it, but it's annoying we still don't know why this can happen in the first place.  Extra data I was able to get on this glitch:

- Customers with the glitch get your object (perms=Copy)  and can't edit the fullperm notecard inside of it. They can edit the no mod scripts inside the same object!

-  They can copy the notecard they were supposed to edit out into their own inventory, and there it becomes editable!

- Bypassing the marketplace and just sending the object to the customer from my inventory, they still have the same problem (and still can edit non-editable scripts).

- Yet, this only happened to those people who got an update that I did via the "Redeliver" buttons in Order History on Marketplace.  If I use "send as gift",  with the same exact item (perms = Copy),  the person who recieves it has no problems, can edit notecard, scripts are not editable, everything works correctly.

Anyone have ideas? What's happening there?

[Pamela Galli]

I am pretty confused. I can't keep straight who did and didn't have the problem. Have you made a bug report?  If so, any feedback? We, of course are not allowed to see it because it is none of our damn business.

[Dirtnap Mumfuzz]

Are you setting permissions on the item contents by using the [Permissions] button on the item [content] tab?

 

When you check the package contents from your manage listings page, do the item perms appear correct?

( [My Marketplace]/[Merchant Home], then [inventory]/[manage listings], then [Actions]/[View Content] )

 

If you test delivery, using the test delivery option, does the product arrive to you with permissions as expected?

 

 

Pardon me if I overlooked any previous answer, things seem to be getting a bit convoluted.

[Vegro Solari]

Quick recap:

I encountered a permissions-corruption glitch, which does weird things like block fullperm notecards from being edited inside the object, and instead makes no-mod scripts inside the same object editable to end users.

At first I thought it was a Marketplace-related thing. However, doing a test re-delivery, the object comes back to me with all the correct permissions. Buying my own item, sending it "as gift" to a friend, results in them getting an object that also works as expected.

It all started when I redelivered this item to a lot of customers after doing an update for the product. I used the Transaction/Orders on the Marketplace and clicked "redeliver" to do it.

Soon after, different customers get back to me, and explain they have a problem: the notecard in the obect (used for changing script settings)  is not editable to them, whilst all the no-mod scripts inside are. When I rez the object, I see all the correct permissions in it. But then when I send it (this time direct from my inventory to theirs, no Marketplace) they still have the same issue.

That's very weird, if you ask me.  Now here's the fix for it that I accidentally found:  I take the troubled object and set its permissions to Mod, Copy  (instead of the original Copy only).  When this is resent (my inventory to theirs)  to customers, their notecard editing now works fine.

Things I still do not understand are:  how is it possible that Re-delivery via the Transactions page on Marketplace gives people a glitched item, but me ordering the same exact item (from myself) and sending it to a friend "as gift" results in a correctly working item?  (even though the permissions are identical in both cases) We were able to rule out "customer ploys" or anything like that, since in this product's case there's just no benefit to be gained.

Dirtnap, thanks for putting your head against this too. Yes, I did use the "Permissions" button to set things up inside the object before I put it on Marketplace. The package contents on the site show correct perms. Test redeliveries come back to me with no glitches.

Also Pamela, how dare you ask me if I filed a bug report, that's private between me and Linden Lab.

[Freya Olivieri]

Hmm correct me someone if I'm wrong, but if an object is "NO mod", your customer cannot save the NC inside this object, simply because the object is no mod.

The notecard is still full perm, but the object permissions do not allow any editing. They don't have the rights to modify it or it's contents. It's not a bug, it's how it works.

It works for you with NO-mod permissions on objects because you are the owner/creator of the object. Even if you set it to no copy, no mod along with content permissions off, you can still mod it, because you created it and own it.

So if you want your customers to mod the nc inside said object, you *have* to make the object mod/copy or mod/transfer, it's not really a solution per se, it's just how things work. 

As far as the script thing, I don't know, maybe you forgot to set permissions to copy only? I haven't heard of permission bugs in a long time. You should file a ticket if this really is a bug.