Seams showing on lower LODs

[Chic Aeon]

I made a simple vase. I have made them before with good results. This one seems to have a seam problem even though I moved the edges of the mesh inside the ambient map. It looks great up close and personal, but as I cam away the seam that runs down the outside shows a lot. My LODs are all as high as they can be for all but the lowest LOD.

I only put the ambient map on the vase, no extra pattern which will in some ways help the issue, but I am wondering why I might have this problem on THIS vase when I have not on similar ones. I really don't understand how the texture thing works for the different LODs and wondering if this might be the issue.    Here is the map. The seams are all WELL inside the edges of the ambient map.  The problem seems to be only on the VERTICLE seam and the one where the neck (top left square) meets the main body (big square).

 

I have seen this often on vases made by others. Wondering if there is a fix.

 

Any hints appreciated.

 

[Chosen Few]

What does the UV map look like for each of the LOD models?

[Chic Aeon]

All the same. For whatever reason my builds don't seem to "need" separate LODs. I have this as I said with all three top LODs the same (full). It is still only .5 LI and you can't get lower than that. Assume that if I made something fancy like a GUN (which I won't be doing *wink*) then I might need custom LODs. So far that has not been the case.  I box model and keep it very low poly as low impact is part of my plan.

It is smoothed (I thought that I may have not done that) and has a subsurf modifier on it. Others vases and pots been very similar so I am confused why there is a difference. Then again, it might be a change in the uploader OR the newest LL viewer which I just installed. Haven't looked at the vase in Firestorm and maybe I should do that (tomorrow). If that is the problem, I will report for sure.

 EDIT:  Now that I am thinking on it  -- with the new viewer install I might be set at 3 LOD (whatever that is called) or whatever the default is and THAT might be it. Tired but will check in the morrow. I can upload on Aditi in FS but I can't upload in Agni except witht the LL viewer. Been that way for weeks so I just switched to LL viewer for uploading both spots.

The SHAPE holds perfectly (well it is at full for three LODs ) but that could be the issue.   

 

Edit: Part of the ambient map that looks black is actually inside the vase and while not showing in the ambient map IS in the UV map .  And yes, I know I could leave parts of it out but I like to be able to look inside vases and pots and things and have them "finished" like they would be in reality. I am a curious gal I guess.

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Not only the vase has LoD models, textures do as well. You can see this when you zoom in on something in the distance quickly (something that you haven't seen from up close yet). You'll see a blurry image for a while. So if your texture doesn't bleed on the high LoD model, the lower resolution on a lower texture LoD can still cause bleeding. On top of these texture LoDs, which are controlled by SL, there is mipmapping. If your texture is small on screen, your computer will "shrink" the texture to try to match texel and pixel on screen.

If this is your issue, I can think of two ways to fix it.

- You say you kept the UV well inside the "light" zones. You could keep them inside even more.

- Or you could remap the object. You have a lot of wasted texture space. From a vase I'd expect pretty much a single square for your UV layout. The in- and outside bottom could either be a "saw blade", like in spherical mapping (if you have a vertex in the centre), or two circles. (This is assuming no parts of that map are used for an ear of the vase)
The least amount of seams possible, the smaller the chances of bleeding.

Another thing I can think of is corrupted cache. All texture LoDs are stored in your cache. If one is corrupted it will be blurrier and (I suspect) bleed more.

btw, using your full model for 3 LoDs sounds like a bad idea, performance wise. I understand it won't lower your LI, but simplifying your lower LoDs will save rendertime. On a single vase that won't be noticable, but on a chinashop it will. If the vase takes up 4x10 pixels on your screen (or something like that), you really do not need a lot of geometry, or a well seamed texture for that matter.

[Chic Aeon]

Thanks. I already moved "in again" quite a bit from the edges which didn't help and while I normally do make a simpler map, I am going to be making some very complex patterns on this so really needed the separate areas as I am not all that great in that texturing area . 

I appreciate the info on the texture part as that was confusing. People have talked about uploading separate textures and the pros and cons. I assumed the uploader had control of that normally.

Will do some more checking when I am awake and in world and see if I can find the answer. It is a very odd shaped vase so really don't want to remap although that MAY be the actual underlying problem as you say. Really feel I need the long neck area separate for what I intend to do with the textures. In the end the patterns and color can and will negate a lot of this issue, just wondering WHY so that I can hopefully avert the problem in the future.

Will lower that 3rd LOD as I really don't need to see a half a meter vase all the way across the sim *wink*. Still over on Aditi testing. It hasn't made it to Agni yet.  Will try clearing the texture cache. May also try uploading the ambient map again.

THANKS.

 

LATER EDIT:

OK, not a viewer thing, not an upload problem, not apparently a cache issue.

I did two more "further inside the ambient map" changes and eventually got it to not show the seams. I have never had to move THIS far inside the ambient map - LOL. So--- I will definitely need to use both UV and ambient map to get the complex pattern to work.

Still not exactly sure what the underlying issue is except perhaps that the shape changes shape fairly abruptly. So thanks for the nudge to keep on bringing those lines in. All very odd and it is the seam that runs through the whole vase vertically that was the biggest issue so a one piece map (except for the base and inside base circles) really wouldn't have helped too much.

Thanks again.

 

[Alisha Matova]

I think I have a solution. Try adjusting your uv map in a way that removes the black lines, both between the faces and(most importantly) around the edges. No need to completely remap, just stretch and shuffle the areas so your modeler produces more of a seamless render.

I think your seeing the results of the texture reducing size with viewing distance. Try googling Mip mapping for techie info. Essentially, SL reduces the texture size by half at each lod level. 512, 256, 128, 64 in the case of a 512.

 

Best workaround is not creating a uv map and texture combination that reveals its edges, which can take some noodling. I've never tried, but it seems like it be easy to scale your image to 128(or appropriate small size) and stick it on your model in your modeler. That should point to the issue, quickly.

 

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Glad you got rid of your black lines, a couple of small things to add:

For the vertical seam you should do what Alisha suggested, I somehow missed that in your post, despite the CAPITALS. The lower 3 islands on your map are almost touching the edges of the texture. If you make them touch exactly, the bleeding will be from one side of the texture to the other, so you would never see a black line. For the horizontals this won't work of course.

[Alisha Matova]

To clarify, (it's early...) the 3 squares on the bottom half of your texture should have no black lines between them, and most importantly, should take up the Whole width of the texture. This will remove most of the black lines and should solve your issue.

 

ETA: or what he said. ^ lol

[Alisha Matova]

Ok I'm going to keep rambling, as I see more options. Optimizing the uv and its texture should still be done, but I have another idea. This may not be needed for a small vase, but certainly will be for larger things.

 

I suggest making lower lod models. It's actually fairly quick to do, and will let you adjust how the texture is worn on those lower lods via the uv map. Then, for instance, you could even get away with your current texture and original uv mapping for the highest lod, and you'll only have to 'move in' the mapping on the lowest lods.

 

Personally, I try to do both. Create uv mapping and textures that survive mip mapping and I tweek the uv mapping on my lower lod models to keep things pretty.

 

/ramble

[Drongle McMahon]

Why not just bucket fill all the black space with white?

[Chic Aeon]

So here's a reply to all the ideas. Seems more cohesive to just post once.

Good news is that I actually UNDERSTAND what you are all saying. Dancing - dancing - dancing

Actually the real problem was with the vertical edges, not the islands which may look problematic but weren't really all that much. The only one was where the skinny neck met the very fat sphere. The three bottom areas went together fine except for that one VERTICAL seam (I probably didn't point that out too well).

So there really was a reason that I mapped this way LOL. As I mentioned I am planning on a complex  pattern and the neck is maybe 1/8 to 1/10th the size of the body. HENCE the difference in the mapping. My photoshopping type skills are not that great and while some folks could no doubt do a great job with this as all one big square, I am pretty sure I cannot. I DO GET THE POINT THOUGH.

I did get it all to work out simply by bringing the map lines way inside the white areas (we may have been posting before at the same time) so all is well and I am sure that I have learned a lot from this.

I like the filling the black with white and that may have worked well without all the fiddling with the edges of the map. But of course it will be a pattern when I get done. Still the idea of building the base texture WAY outside the lines (what I called the last DAE file by the way ) is a viable idea for the future and others.

The BEST solution for this particular project would probably have been to paint right on the vase and use that map (she says hoping she understands that well enough from a couple of tutorials) but that is for another day. I can go forward now and that's what counts. My head can only take so much learning at one time.

 

Thank you all very much for all the input!!!!  I appreciate it.