Deploys for the week of 2012-08-20

[Drongle McMahon]

I had a look in the corners of a load of regions, and the signs are good. Looking from a main channel (263480) into another main channel, the old problem with 600-700 kbps. Looking from main channel to Blue Steel (26366) or Magnum, <100 (except main->BS SW only, which is sometimes 100-200 kbps). Looking from Blue Steel to Blue Steel, all <<100kbps (normal). So it looks like most of the prblem is gone when the diagonally linked region is one of the new RCs, and completely gone when you are in one as well. If there aren't any new problems, this should be gone by next week.

[Cincia Singh]

You all are becoming as predictable with your demanding posts as "a certain someone" is with her imminent demise posts. And even if LL gave you EVERY detail about what's going on there wouldn't be a thing you could do with the information except whine about disagreeing with them, which you already do.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Cincia Singh wrote:

You all are becoming as predictable with your demanding posts as "a certain someone" is with her imminent demise posts. And even if LL gave you EVERY detail about what's going on there wouldn't be a thing you could do with the information except whine about disagreeing with them, which you already do.

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Yes, when you know exactly what people are going to say before they say it there isn't much point in listening to them, is there?

[Cully Andel]

So you go to a pizza place. Eat a pizza, Get food poisoning. Have hospital bills to pay. I take it if the pizza company just didn't reply to you, you'd feel great about eating there again?

Get real cincia and less off the comments about 'demanding' 'nanny state' and the rest of the nonsense.

Every paying customer of every organisation anywhere in the world has the righ to a certain level of information. Not all of it, but enough to be informed and feel their custom is valued.

You can attack people all you like for asking to know whats going on. Bottom line  - if the customers aren't informed that means unhappy customers, That means they leave and the people who suffer - well guess what. It's the company because they lose revenue. Seriously It's in their own interest to communicate. Stop making out it isn't.

[Cully Andel]

^5

[Perrie Juran]

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Cincia Singh wrote:

You all are becoming as predictable with your demanding posts as "a certain someone" is with her imminent demise posts. And even if LL gave you EVERY detail about what's going on there wouldn't be a thing you could do with the information except whine about disagreeing with them, which you already do.

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I really do not want to hijack a thread about Deploys to engage in a personal discussion.  So I will reply as succinctly as I can to your post.  Beyond that I doubt I will reply any more in this thread.

First of all I will say that I think Oskar does do a great job of communicating with us.

But outside of this the number one complaint Residents have is the lack of or poor communication by Linden Lab.  If  I had the umption to go back and dig this out, I could point you to a multitude of comments by other Residents about this.  If my repeating this FACT makes me a demanding person, so be it.

Outside of the issue of poor communications, can you point out to me anywhere that I "whine?"  Any time I encounter a problem if and when I bring it up it is always with the intent of finding a solution.  And again, outside of poor communications, can you find any where that I harp on an issue?

Lastly, as far as your statement "there wouldn't be anything you could do with the information," that is so far from the truth it's a joke.  With the information I learn in this Forum and with some from other places I am able on a regular basis to help many of my friends In World when they have problems.  I am pretty much the go to person in my circle of friends when they encounter snafus.  That again is just a simple fact.

</theadjack>

 

[Yuriko Nishi]

found another biggy:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8180

 

[Ayesha Askham]

Bandwidth and related issues continue to plague SecondLife. What the current state of play tells me, is that the issue causing these "spam" messages, be they the ones Henri Beauchamp originally described in JIRA SVC-8124 or the others reported in the, now closed, SVC-8155, is a lot more complex that the Linden Lab programmers originally thought.  I have to say that those of us that investigated the issue realised quite early in this issue's history that there was a lot more to the issue than could be addressed by the single "fix" rolled to the RC channels last Wednesday.

Perhaps if Linden Lab had come out and communicated that there was an issue that was "under investigation" but that might take a while to properly fix, there would not now be so much noise from disgruntled users.  Sometimes pain is more bearable if one knows that the doctor has noted it and is investigating.  At least, that is my experience. 

The corollary of this is the classic "more haste less speed" adage.  There was huge downward pressure on the programmers to get Pathfinding and all its associated changes rolled out.  Since it could not, for many good reasons (and a couple of bad ones), be rolled back, a fix was rushed out.  That fix has, it would seem, created yet more issues and the final solving of the problem may actually have been delayed by the haste.

While I understand, in part at least, why Linden Lab is disinclined to communicate with its users, on this occasion it would have avoided an awful lot of flak if it had been a little less tight lipped over the initial issue.  No, "fix pending" is not enough, as we now see.

And if anyone is wondering what I mean by "related issues";  I mean the current dreadful state of sim to sim crossings in the area  around and including Blake Sea.  Unless you cross a sim border at a snail's pace you either rubber band like crazy, come to an almost complete stop or get thrown off whatever craft you are sitting on.  Boats are bad (mesh ones worse than prim-only ones), 'planes and other flying objects seem almost impossible.  Also sims are still going offline on a regular basis.  If you suddenly grind to a halt and cannot enter a sim that appears to be all water look under the waves...most likely the sim is just "gawn".  When I stopped reporting them to Support it had reached double figures in three days.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

I am not sure that the sim-crossing problems have all that much to do with the Pathfinding/Havok mess. Thing is, while the silly beggars don't seem to talk, there's an "Operations Team" that runs things at server level, OS upgrades and network maintenance and stuff, and Linden Labs apparently decided to concentrate on two data centres, and do the shuffling around at the same time as the Pathfinding rollout/testing.

I'm not sure that even Nalates knows for sure what's happening on that.

Anyway, a while back there was a big improvement in sim crossing when the arrangement of regions on the servers was sorted out to put adjacent regions close together in terms of network position. Put all the Blake Sea in the same data centre. for instance. And this recent rearrangement pretty well wrecked that.

There's other reasons why that "smart" arrangement slowly erodes, but once they're sure that the OT have finished, they might have a go at another rearrangement. (The last couple of times the OT have been restarting sims, they didn't tell anyone they finished, just daily announcements of starting another batch: here in the UK the whole thing looked like an attempt as revenge for the USS Chesapeake, the timing and the uncertainty over when the restarts had finished for the day.

For a 24/7, international, internet business the Labs can sometimes look very parochial.

 

[Ayesha Askham]

OK Wolf,

Let's for argument's sake say that the sim-crossing issue is related to the datacentre rearrangement.  I don't think that IS the cause but it IS plausible.

That does not explain the sudden increase in sims that for no apparent reason go offline.  That is something comparatively recent, at least in my experience.

The plain fact of the matter is that we discuss all this in a vacuum that even Nalates' blog reports don't really fill.  This is one set of circumstances where (except to a noted few individuals that we know well) an explanation of this mess really is an obligation that Linden Lab need to fill.

The fact that Linden Lab come over as a bunch of somewhat psychotically defensive people is something that they may have to deal with in any venture that they may subsequently embark upon.  If I were being asked to invest in such a company, I'd run as far away with my money as I could.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

Yes, the regions do seem to be going down with the alacrity of the undergarments of a lady of negotiable virtue.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if that was part of the general datacentre reshuffle,

[Perrie Juran]

I will say that LL responded very quickly to my landlords support ticket regarding repeated SIM crashes.

Whatever maintenance and optimizations they did, we have not had a crash since.  So it's been smooth going on two weeks now.

[Ayesha Askham]

Woo another "free login"!!

Perrie, it was my experience too that downed sims were restarted very quickly.  Sadly some seem still to be distinctly unstable - Murat on Blake being an example of a sim that has been down at least twice recently.

That is probably not statistically significant, but it does suggest to me that LL have too many balls in the air at once.

[Perrie Juran]

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Ayesha Askham wrote:

Woo another "free login"!!

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?????

 

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Perrie, it was my experience too that downed sims were restarted very quickly.

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I wasn't referring to off line SIM's.  They do happen from time to time.  Would be nice if it didn't.  It's nice that anyone can file a support ticket for this and the response is also usually pretty fast.

 

 

 

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 Murat on Blake being an example of a sim that has been down at least twice recently.

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We put up a SIM stat logger and supplied the details in the support ticket though it's possible that was redundant. 

 

 

 

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That is probably not statistically significant, but it does suggest to me that LL have too many balls in the air at once.

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Or not enough hands to juggle them all.

 

 

 

[Ayesha Askham]

Perrie

I thought you WERE referring to the speed at which Support and the engineers worked, sorry.

As to the "free login": occasionally the software just lets me in to reply or post without my needing to log in, then to compensate it might take me 5 goes to successfully login the next time.:smileyfrustrated:

Please feel free to explain that, and then explain it to Support, who don't believe me.:smileytongue:

[Perrie Juran]

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Ayesha Askham wrote:

Perrie

As to the "free login": occasionally the software just lets me in to reply or post without my needing to log in, then to compensate it might take me 5 goes to successfully login the next time.:smileyfrustrated:

Please feel free to explain that, and then explain it to Support, who don't believe me.:smileytongue:

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I've been aware of the log in problems since the advent of Lithium.  These problems were brought up eons ago but never addressed.  I don't know a solution.