ToS Changes - why?

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

That's a very illuminating article that you linked to, Dillon. Thank you for posting about it. It certainly adds weight to the reasons why those who upload their own stuff are better carrying on as normal for now. If LL actually does something wrong in the future, that will be the time to take action, but not now.

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I am going to disagree sharply with this.

While it may be true that this is a "boiler plate" TOS that SL has chose to use, that still does not justify it.

Among other things we do not know how many contributors to those services pulled their content or stopped contributing to those services when those TOS's were instituted.

This whole concept of "all your base belongs" to us is bad for growth.

While there may be a few points in the new TOS that give added security to content creators, this one concept, that LL can do anything that they damn well please with your creations, that they can use them in any way that they want up to and including selling them without remuneration to you is bad.

When I started this thread, The Technically Marvelous, it was one of the things I had in mind.  What "Artist" would want to devote the the time, money and other resources necessary to build something like those Builds in SL knowing full well that under the new terms LL can do as they fool please with the content. They will take their talents elsewhere.

How many Creators have already left SL or stopped creating because of content theft?  How many are already avoiding it because of the problems.  To some and possibly many this new TOS is theft to the nth degree.

When Rezzables (Greenies) left SL it was over a TOS update dispute.  As I recall, Rezzables felt that at the time of that update that LL was claiming more rights than they were entitled to.  Now at that time it really was a question of "interpretation" of the rules and I think Rezzables interpretation was wrong.

But with the new TOS there is no question about "Interpretation."  It undeniably says "all your base belongs to us."   The only question left is "Intent."  And the only safety valve a Creator has right now is a Public Relations Letter sent to some bloggers that was full of half truths and lies stating "it isn't our intent."  Good luck with that.

Now is the time to take action.

[Phil Deakins]

You're not really disagreeing with me, Perrie, except in your last short sentence, and not really with that either.

I completely agree that LL has gone too far with the wording, regardless of how they came by it. And I completely agree that it needs to be changed, and that those who feel it matters to them should do all they can to get them to change it. I completely agree that that action is needed right now.

What I was saying in my post is that it does look like LL has used boiler-plate wording and may not have specifically worded the ToS because they intend using other people's stuff for their own ends. Therefore, I see no reason to stop uploading at this point in time, and I see good reason to continue uploading and creating as normal. That doesn't mean that I think it's best to accept that the ToS is ok. It's definitely not ok. The action that, imo, is best not done right now is downing tools. That action is best done if and when LL actually does something untoward with other people's stuff. The action of trying to get LL to use sense and change the ToS must be done now, of course.

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You're not really disagreeing with me, Perrie, except in your last short sentence, and not really with that either.

I completely agree that LL has gone too far with the wording, regardless of how they came by it. And I completely agree that it needs to be changed, and that those who feel it matters to them should do all they can to get them to change it. I completely agree that that action is needed right now.

What I was saying in my post is that it does look like LL has used boiler-plate wording and may not have specifically worded the ToS because they intend using other people's stuff for their own ends. Therefore, I see no reason to stop uploading at this point in time, and I see good reason to continue uploading and creating as normal. That doesn't mean that I think it's best to accept that the ToS is ok. It's definitely not ok. The action that, imo, is best not done right now is downing tools. That action is best done if and when LL actually does something untoward with other people's stuff. The action of trying to get LL to use sense and change the ToS must be done now, of course.

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I may have misunderstood your post to mean 'no need to to anything' at this time.

It is of course each persons choice what they are going to do in response to the new TOS.

My point is that "do nothing" is the wrong choice.

Thanks

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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My point is that "do nothing" is the wrong choice.

 

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In your opinion.

You keep throwing out blanket statements. Template users are crap merchants, doing nothing about the new ToS is wrong, anyone still putting new things on the MP is a dummy.  Perhaps you should stop insulting people.

[Perrie Juran]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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My point is that "do nothing" is the wrong choice.

 

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In your opinion.

You keep throwing out blanket statements. Template users are crap merchants, doing nothing about the new ToS is wrong, anyone still putting new things on the MP is a dummy.  Perhaps you should stop insulting people.

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And you continue to put words in my mouth that I DID NOT EVER SAY OR WRITE.

The words that I wrote were written in good English with good grammar which is a language it appears that you also read and write quite well.  So please stop twisting the words I wrote into something a person who can read or write readily sees they don't say.

Even the ESLers understood what I said so please go back, re-read, and stop twisting my words.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

All that number tells us is that either one dummy added 3,471 items or 3,471 dummies added one item or something inbetween those numbers..

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I would also maintain that in order for us to know the real number of items added to the Marketplace we would need to subtract demos as well as other

poorly made mass produced junk that some (pretend) Merchants

are making from all the ready made,

slap a texture on the template and take the money and run

people who are trying to milk a cash cow whose udders could potentially be drying up.

Perrie Juran wrote:

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My point is that "do nothing" is the wrong choice.

 

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You wrote those things, word for word. Each and every one is insulting. I twisted none of your words.

[Perrie Juran]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

All that number tells us is that either one dummy added 3,471 items or 3,471 dummies added one item or something inbetween those numbers..

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I would also maintain that in order for us to know the real number of items added to the Marketplace we would need to subtract demos as well as other

poorly made mass produced junk that some (pretend) Merchants

are making from all the ready made,

slap a texture on the template and take the money and run

people who are trying to milk a cash cow whose udders could potentially be drying up.

Perrie Juran wrote:

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My point is that "do nothing" is the wrong choice.

 

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You wrote those things, word for word. Each and every one is insulting. I twisted none of your words.

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That's correct, I wrote them.

Now if you want to take them to mean that I was saying that anyone who uploaded, etc, was a Dummy, that is your choice.

But please apply some good sense here.  I do believe you know what hyperbole is.  It is a valid figure of speech, which as a matter of course I used also when I referenced that even the ESLers' understood what I said.

Additionally, if you go back to that thread, I took the time afterwards to clarify my hyperbole before any one else hyperventilated over it.  I can only guess that you did not read my clarification.

 

ETA, I will however, in the case of the ToS, maintain that doing nothing is the wrong choice.  There may be other things in life that it may be the right choice.  It would be wrong to infer that I would apply that to all aspects of life.  You know, context is the key.