Tari Landar
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Posts posted by Tari Landar
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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:Answer and stance on that last would be nice,so I don't have to argue with my peers and customers whether I belong here or not and whether or not I'm a shark for doing something that I enjoy for profit.Rod announced better tools coming in 2012 to help us be more profitable. Still blindly assuming yes it's ok to be here on that level.Those are the things I need help with.
One part of your post stood out to me(I did read the whole thing, however, good stuff). I bolded it...
I don't consider ANY person as being unworthy to sell on MP, or inworld. I think that's a huge distinction some are making, and it's something I (and probably others) take issue with. Especially with regard to this topic at hand. I don't believe any one person or group of people, should get to decide who is worthy, and who is not. I'm fairly certain that over time those things handle themselves quite well. I guess it's a bit more difficult for me to explain this. I just think that anyone who wants a chance, needs to be given that chance. It doesn't matter how big, or small. It doesn't matter how much or how little they invest (this being time, money, materials, knowledge, experience or anything tangible or intangible we bring to the table). My opinion on the matter is all encompassing. I don't decide who is or is not worthy based on these things. In fact, I don't decide at all, because like I said, imo, everyone is worthy.
I don't think someone who has a bigger store, bigger wallet, more time, more space, more knowledge, more talent, more supplies,longer lifespan thus far in sl, etc... to be more worthy than someone who just walked in today, just learned how to use sl, just learned how to build or create, has little to no money,time,knowledge,space,talent, etc.. I think you get my point.
I'm going to do something again here that I don't like doing,but I'm going to say it to make a point, not pat myself on the back.(I hate ego stroking horns). I help new people all the time in sl. Some of them go on to create some pretty great things. I once bought something from one of these fine young people(and I say young because she actually is younger than me, lol). It didn't quite work right and she didn't quite have all the instructions needed. What she did have was confusing because the wording was off. I im'd her after buying it. I, thankfully, bought it with plenty of time to learn how to use it because I needed it for a very important project. Long story longer we got to talking and she politely asked me what I would do differently, and how to fix it. Now, I've said it a million times but I am NOT a huge creator. My talents, though I thoroughly enjoy them and do find that I am quite good at some, they are still pretty limited. I am always learning. I wasn't too sure what I could do to help her, but I gave it a whirl anyway. We worked together to fix this product (which in turn worked awesome and ended up raising a crap ton of money for a charity, WOOT, but I also gained a lot more knowledge and experience too). But then we moved on to her other stuff. She only had a couple things on MP, and no in-world store at all. She has far surpassed my skills, by leaps and bounds. This was 2009 when I helped her. She has a really good business now, makes her entire sl and rl living with her products and really is just living the life. She's not a top merchant in that everyone knows her name/brand. But it's what she makes that matters the most. She actually is still lacking in the marketing area-not her strong suit and she'll be the first to say it. The point of this story is that ALL merchants, start somewhere. All merchants, imo, need help from time to time. All merchants need someone, anyone, to give them a chance. If such a BBB, group, or even a policy, was in place to eliminate(or attempt to) any person not deemed as "worthy" to be a merchant, then a crap ton of the merchants we see today, wouldn't be here. No merchant gets to the top on their own. I strongly believe no merchant should start out alone either, or travel their journey alone. I'd rather see more focus put on HELPING people from day one. Give them more tools, more knowledge and they'll likely succeed. Give them a reason to feel inferior(yes I know, no one can *make another person feel this way, I get that, but there is am emotional side to things too) and they're not likely to stick around.
Less merchants in SL, is not the answer. Less merchants will also mean less customers for a lot of other merchants. Take me for example. I can sculpt very few things on my own. I simply don't have the knowledge or talent. In some cases my vision affects this terribly, though it's not an excuse it IS a hinderance for me when dealing with modeling. Heck I've been making textures and various graphic designs since 1997, and it takes me much longer to make things than it should-because of the lack of vision, and they're primarily flat with added depth(that I can't even usually see, and often need help guaging if it's right or not). So I stick to buying my maps, sculpts and other supplies from other merchants. Some of them much lesser known than others. It may not seem like much but even my measly little purchases are helping contribute to the merchant community. I'm helping as much as any other person is, to keep the community alive. I'm someone(out of a rather large group) who gives sculpty creators a reason to do what they do. . So where would sculpty creators, texture makers and others who make things for other builders be, without us? Especially the lesser known, smaller, even hobbiest merchants. I'll tell ya, nowhere. Even the biggest names in the creation world, started somewhere. They started with small things, and then got bigger. They started out as imperfect as everyone else. We ALL start out that way. In fact, we all stay that way, as none of us are perfect. We ALL can grow, get better at what we do, and ought to be encouraging others to do the same......without making them feel like crap.(well giving them cause to).
No person should feel inferior just because they're not top dog in the class. I 100% support anything that actually helps other merchants, or potential ones, so long as it doesn't come across as "we feel you're not worthy", from the word go. There is a much better way to approach things and I strongly believe those should be explored. I don't think we need to explore the reasons as to why some feel that some folks are less worthy as merchants, than others. That's really not going to help any of the problems we see. I know there are classes, tutorials, groups even, to help new builders. I love that they exist. I'd love to see more of them. Sometimes I feel awkward when I help others, because not all my skills are super fabtabulous. But I still do it, because I do enjoy it, and I'm quite certain that even if I can only offer a little help, it's a good thing. I have to be honest when I say that it makes me feel good, proud even, when I AM able to help another merchant. Especially if that merchant is having issues, feeling like a small fry who's never going to make it to the dinner plate, on their own, and there's no one else around to help. Yeah, that's a bit selfish of me, arrogant even a little bit, but it's just how I feel. I'd rather help a little then not help at all. I'd rather offer critiques that are open and honest, but not rude. I'd rather help someone do better, not kick them down because I don't think they're worthy.
Bottom line, you want the merchant community to get better, you want to see less customer complaints and issues(though this can never be fully remedied, that's just life), then work at helping other creators BE better....without coming across as though you believe they aren't worthy of the tag "merchant"....or that you, are somehow better than they are. That's just a really bad approach, imo.
/end rant...and I apologize for the TL;DR and the thoughts all jumbled to one.
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The short answer as to why I refuse to use a LL created viewer.....TPV creators actually listen...LL rarely does.
That's really the long and short of it, for me. TPVs offer (and have for quite some time) far more than an official viewer ever has, perhaps maybe even ever will. LL has a canny knack for not listening. They've implemented some things, but I won't pat them on the back for it, they didn't put it there because they wanted to, they did it because all the cool kids were doing it and they needed to compete. As far as their viewers go...epic failboat, for some time now. They did implement a few new things people wanted, but those aren't "new to the grid" type things, just new to their viewers. They're all things other viewers already had (or were being worked on in some cases).
I use firestorm when I want to go into the realms. But I still have to dumb it way down to get things to work right. A big part of that is my system, so definitely not entirely the viewer's fault, of course. I can't use any LL V2 or V3 viewer so far, even with it dumbed down(graphically speaking) and it go smoothly. In the case of those viewers it's *not my machine contributing to the biggest piece of what's really going on, but rather the viewer.(still my machine has some effect, though minor). My favorite viewer is phoenix, and has been for a while, well ever since emerald went kaput anyway. I still check out official viewers from time to time, to see what, if anything, has improved. They're moving slower than frozen molasses off a snail's tail on improving it though.
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I'm not real sure why having inactive members affects anything to begin with. Why would you want to remove them? I mean unless you have specifications in your group that require constant, or consistant, activity, what would it matter if some were inactive and others not?
I think for most groups, there aren't such restrictions, so removing inactive members would likely be more hassle than it's worth. I've been a member of a few groups since this particular av was created (and an earlier av, even longer), and not necessarily been "active" in them. But that doesn't mean I don't want to be in them, or should be removed. Most groups don't require any kind of activity, per se', to be in them at all. For the groups that do require it, you'd need some kind of way to measure activity anyway so a manual removal should be relatively simple.
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Rya Nitely wrote:I've been hanging around with this newbie lately.Normally, I don't get out much. I just hang around my working area, like most creators do. We lose touch with what goes on out there.What I learnt from this newbie is this - he has been in SL for under a month and is having a great time buying freebies on the marketplace, such as cute little boats etc. I wouldn't want to deprive newbies of this. And why would you want to? This is what makes them fall in love with SL, and stay. They start spending when they're good and ready. But they have to get a taste of it, Freebies give them that.I don't have freebies on the marketplace, only because I don't want to subject my gifts to the review system.I hand them out inworld.
That's a very wonderful perspective, one I think we sometimes lose. I think there are very few people in this virtual world who've never gained something from a freebie. It really doesn't matter if it was "bought" on marketplace, inworld, received as a prize from a game, handed out as a group gift, or whatever else. I don't think most people can claim they've never gotten a freebie and actually used it. So I rarely ever understand the animosity towards creators who put them out there. Not when there is so much more affecting creators. Some of which we actually have control over. I'll never understand the frame of mind that suggests we ought to have control over one another, though. I've not found a compelling enough argument that tells me this is a grand idea, though. Maybe there is one out there, but I've not heard it yet. Of all the arguments I have heard, though, the whole "freebies are killing my bottom line", is the worst, imo.
As someone else pointed out, those freebies and those creators handing them out, aren't even your competition. So if you really want to see what's hurting your bottom line(aside from spending too much time worrying about others) look at the people who really ARE taking the lindens that would be spent with you, if they didn't exist. Those are the folks you're competing against for income. Creators who offer freebies may be your competition as far as space, being able to be seen by the masses and such, but they are *not* taking income from your pocket. They're not making income, lol.
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Rene Erlanger wrote:Marketplace has over 1.5 Millions products listed......that is a hell of a large MEGA store to try and obtain any kind of visibility from.I wonder how many MP Merchants make monthly 6-figure sales i.e 100,000 L? It's still not a lot when you consider a SIM tiers are 78k p/mth ($295) as a comparison. 1.5 million products.....now that's a of lot of noise to wade through to be making regularly meaningful sales!It makes no odds on whether you offer Freebies or whether Alicia does......it's the fact there are 100's of Alicias on Marketplace listing Freebies! So if one's products can be seen past the Freebies, then one's at the mercy of the MP Search engine or from competitors with more expensive Feature listings.I wonder how many products are listed on Marketplace by avatars who have long since left Second Life? ..more noise!
I understand wanting to eliminate the extra "noise" people have to compete with. I truly do. Xstreet used to actually have a freebie section-while many may not like the idea, I think it's far better than eliminating them entirely. Getting rid of freebies and dollarbies isn't going to magically make the bottom line better for someone struggling to make an income. It may be one teensy piece of a very large puzzle, and may help contribute in the end, but there are far bigger pieces to that puzzle that could be more beneficial. Things like search working properly, a better rating system, more of the tools some of the merchants have been asking for-for some time now...I mean there really are a lot of things that can be done. Not to mention a lot we can do as merchants to help ourselves too. A lot of people aren't optimizing their own potential, and then later claiming that other merchants are killing things for them.
When I need to make more sales, or simply want to, I don't look to others to see what they can do to better aid me. I don't look to others when sales are low, to see what they are doing wrong, that is harming me. No, I look at myself, at what I am doing, at what I can do differently. Even if I am doing everything right (or think I am anyway, lol), there is always something that can be changed. There is always more we can do. Heck I've seen people come to these very forums with basically "What can I do differently here" questions, when their bottom line is hurting, if they can't seem to help themselves. I've seen countless merchants help others in this way. I've learned a million and one new things from other merchants here myself over the years. But in the end, what I do, what I make, what my store accomplishes...it's all on me. *IF* I want to make a true profit, that responsibility sits with me.
From a personal standpoint, I've never found insulting your actual customers to be the best way to increase income. Sure some big companies might be able to pull it off-if they offer something people can't get elsewhere-but, yeah, most people can't
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Ziggy21 Slade wrote:
It's also worth remembering who is behind some of the avatars here, there are disabled people who dont have the employment choices many people enjoy, single mothers trying to scrape together a few extra dollars to keep their kids happy, older unemployed people who can't get job offers, students having their first attempt at entrepreneurship. A healthy vibrant marketplace where people can make fair money is a great thing for many people and without it SL would not exist, anyone who sets out with malicious intent to destroy this is a..... expletive deleted!!In answer to the OP, yes please kick out this freebie rubbish and the numskulls who inflict it upon us.People who sell lower priced items, give things away, are also people who fit those categories. Not wise to assume that only those who charge top dollar fit that bill. Of course a healthy vibrant market(not just marketplace, but also inworld, so *market) is absolutely wonderful. But eliminating freebies and dollarbies, isn't something that will achieve this any faster. Not everyone who gives something away, offers freebies, or dollarbies is out to destroy anything. That attitude is just as damaging to the general merchant community, imo.
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Marina Ramer wrote:Oh didnt meant being rude at all, and I do respects opinions of everyone, but is still my choice to reply or not to a comment
Maybe I would just had to make clear at the start that I am actually interested on opinions of collegues merchants and really not on customers " I love freebies" , was actually just trying to make clear my position as merchant and I would really like to hear what other merchants have to say, as you may know, this is in the end the Merchants threadBut I understamd why your comments anyway as you are one of the persons who offers this freebiesIn the end I hope that LL charges a fee to all persons like you who offer 100 freebies or more in marketplace, like they planned to do when it was the migration form xstreet to Marketplace, in the understanding that actually the people who pays to them are, I guess, as mayority the merchants who pays for more land and premium accounts and not the freebie collectors/offerents
If you're going to ask others to check things before responding, maybe it would do you well to actually do the same? Good for the goose, and all that.
I don't offer 100 freebies, lol. As a matter of fact, I only have 115 products on MP to begin with, or somewhere around there, last I checked. They may not be $100L and up items, but only one of them is a freebie, only two are $1L, the remaining ones are $5L and up
Asking for opinions, in a merchant area (or any area really, but since you want to be specific) is going to get the opinions of, well, *merchants*. This whole "you're not a merchant if you offer freebies" attitude you seem to have is the very elitist attitude that is helping to aid in the downfall of the merchant community(just as much as any other issue the merchant community as a whole, has to face). It's rather absurd too, in my honest opinion. Shunning away people as not actually being merchants, or as being "part of the problem", doesn't seem to me like it's going to actually help.
But I guess you'd rather wait for all those serious merchants out there who are likely far too busy actually focusing on their own bottom line, to answer your inquiry. The rest of us peons who actually contribute to your bottom dollar, to your income, to your rl table....don't mean jack...right? Yeah that's a fantastic attitude to have towards people you're trying to sell to, rofl. I guess all my lowly sales that have contributed to *your bottom dollar over time, aren't really a dime a dozen, and haven't gotten you to that "top 100" spot, either, eh?
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I most definitely don't have enough knowledge on the subject to comment on whether or not it's possible, lol.
But I can comment on how much I would love to see something like this. As a person with visual impairments (I am legally blind), it would be absolutely awesome. I know several others (residents and others who've never joined sl) who would benefit greatly from such technology. I'd love to see something like this pursued. I can see something like this being very beneficial in many ways, not just in SL even.
I think it's an awesome idea.
My initial thought, if it helps any, was..."COOL"
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Marina Ramer wrote:Happy toshi, I am on top 100 merchants of Marketplace, please have at least an idea of who I am, before you make a comment?Alicia: I dont loose time with brainless responses no sense, pointless!Toysoldier yes the people who sadly thinks like her are the start of all this, agree againTo the rest I have 100% of good reviews I cannot complain but I work a lot on the after sales service and try to leave always the customer happy
If you're seriously going to sit here and toot your own horn like that (hey, whatever tickles your pickle if you enjoy doing so, haha), then you are either doing something terribly wrong, or you are fibbing about your "status" as a merchant on MP. Freebies and dollarbies are NOT hurting most merchants on MP or inworld, certainly not those who consider themselves top anything.
But I can see from your responses what this thread is really about. You really don't get to decide who does and does not get to comment. You may not like their comments, or agree with them, but we've all the same rights to comment as you do. I don't think being rude to other posters is going to help your bottom line any.
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I like the free market we have. You can find anything, in any price range. Those who want to pay more, will. Those who don't, won't. Eliminating freebies, dollarbies or any other price level from the marketplace won't change this one little bit.
I don't charge high prices for what I make. I charge what I find them worth based on what went into making them or putting them together. Some might not agree with my methods. I suppose it's a good thing it's not their work, their product, or their income to worry about in that case. It's not that I don't value my stuff, my time, my work, my skills or myself in any way. Whether the items are free for $5k. I get told all the time some of the things I price too low, and others I price too high. There is simply no way to win. While I appreciate any and all commentary from folks, in fact I encourage it and will often take it into consideration, I still feel like I should be free to price at whatever level I so desire. I don't believe another should be able to dictate this for me, based on their own ideals. I'm not hurting anyone else by giving some things away. In fact I wouldn't be hurting anyone else if I gave all my stuff away, if I so chose to. Anyone that tells me I am "hurting" them, is probably looking in the mirror.
I understand why some get frustrated when their income is being affected negatively, in any way. But there is an awful lot more folks could do for themselves to fix that. Spending all your time looking over the fence at your neighbor's uncut grass while yours grows into a jungle is probably not the wisest choice. It's good to take notice...rarely ever good to stare for lengthy periods of time. It certainly won't fix your income issues. And yes I do know that it's not just an sl income for at least some folks. That's when you need to buckle down and work even harder at maintaining your income, isn't it?
Freebies and dollarbies on the MP, while you may find them annoying, are not killing your business(or any other person's) all on their lonesome. In fact, they're not even the biggest issue. They've been around since day one in sl and they aren't going anywhere. Taking them off MP won't take them out of the retail market in sl. Proposing their elimination would be like sticking a cotton ball over a huge crack in the Hoover Dam. Sucker ain't gonna hold very long and most definitely won't solve your problem.
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Knowl Paine wrote:Of course I would prefer to deal directly with the Merchant, but as many Merchants have listed in their Profiles, "I have a rl, so I cannot be in SL everyday". It sure would be nice if that Merchant had an associate who may be able to help me (the customer).A BBB would imply that Merchants who participate do have something additional to offer Customers, you are absolutely correct. Maybe, this is why some Residents dislike the idea.You should consider joining the Team, we could use someone who hates the idea. Your presence would keep the system fair and balanced. :matte-motes-grin:
A BBB would most certainly NOT imply that at all. We'd like to think a seal of approval implies that, but that's not the case/ A seal of approval would most likely simply imply "best of..." type deal, like we already see. Because it would be mere mortals like yourself, and myself(not specifically me, lol but *like me) making the decision as to who gets added and who doesn't. I'd love to know how many merchants you run into on a daily basis that actually have this in their profile, though, and exactly how you're finding them all. I find the exact opposite to be the case in that most merchants (not all, especially folks who might not be "as serious" as it were) have the EXACT method(s) they want you to utilize to contact them. Does that mean they can't also include "I have a rl too, please be patient while awaiting assistance"-or some form of it? No. In fact, I'd prefer to know those sorts of things to be honest. That's the reason I mention the fact that I often go afk and may not be available in my profile...it prevents nasty IMs, nasty NCs, some of the impatience some folks have and such things. Would seem to me if you are running into stuff like that in a merchant profile and it sets you off, you'd simply not do business with them. Why would you need some other person's seal of approval for that merchant to make this decision?
Exactly what sort of recourse do you honestly think some group of average, everyday, ordinary residents can give you that LL doesn't already? They can't "help" you should there be a problem, anymore than LL already can. They'd have absolutely NO business getting involved in another merchant's dealings either-that simply screams drama..."sir or madam, we have a buyer here who has an issue and has come to us with said issue...blah blah", yeah that's not going to go over well, lol.. Sure it *might*(and I use that term very loosely) be nice if they could, but they can't. But to be frank, I'm not so sure I'd trust a group of people to decide the fate of others, or "assist" with issues, either, and be able to do so professionally. I think that's expecting a bit much of people anyway, bit too much responsibility put on other residents. I kinda like the fact that LL doesn't really allow this sort of this thus far, or at least doesn't support it. I can imagine the issues it would cause. I mean look at all the "police" type forces we've already got out there. Sure some have the best intentions(I think), but they still cause even more issues than they solve.
What is so radically different about a BBB than what we've got, what we've seen and such, so far? What would really set this apart? What sort of "power" as it were, do you want to hand over to these folks that would really make them so much more helpful and useful than what we've got. I think those(like many) are pretty important questions to answer, if you're all for such an idea. You've got to have a reason for being all for it. Aside from the fact that it sounds good(because it sounds good to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean it *is* good, lots of things sound good, lol). But if simple answers to some of the simpler questions can't be found, or given, how are people going to answer the more tough ones?
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Same look I've had for a while now. New-er skin(don't remember when I bought it, but it was sometime in the summer, and before that I had the same skin since 08), and though I spent a portion of '11 as a blonde, I went with black hair this time.
I rarely change things so I'm quite sure I'll look this way for a while, lol. Not that it's anything to write home about. I avoided a full body pic because I refuse to wear shoes and people hate system feet, don't wanna give nightmares
(too lazy to actual post process the photo, and no clue why the pants texture isn't loading right, sl doesn't like me tonight)
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Word of mouth is your best tool at this point. Clubs that start off with huge crowds, tend to fizzle real fast. Start small and work up.
There is a club on the sim I am on, though frankly I'm not real sure how long they'll last. They're killing the sim and making it a bear to even live. I'd rather not move, again, I like my plot. But I may have to, because they lack the consideration one needs to own a business of any sort. That's my biggest peeve with club owners, many pay little to no attention to their impact on the rest of the sim. Meh.
But I won't knock them all, there are some who do a fine job of keeping an eye on their virtual footprint-they're just getting fewer and further between
Things I have seen in clubs that are at least seemingly successful...
events-whether they are your good old standard "best in" or some other event, people reeeeeeeally seem to like them(despite what many might say, lol),
atmosphere-staff, party goers and whatnot all included, gesturbating is freaking annoying-yes SOME people like it, but there are tons(like me) who refuse to go to most clubs because they don't keep this under control-blah, emoting instead of chatting is a huge no-no in my book, so don't give your staff emotes to put out in chat periodically "tip the dj, tip the club, tip me..blah blah blah"-I won't do any of the above if you gesturettack me, encourage chit chat, encourage your staff to actually participate in conversations....do NOT allow staff to bring in gf/bf/partner/so/pets/whatever if they can't stay the heck out of their little im boxes and do their job-this is something that reeeally grates on my nerves(and people make it so obvious, lol), a really great dj can both do his/her job and also interract-hire those types...it's really hard(I ave been a dj so I understand completely and not just a playlist dj, lol) but it speaks volumes,
decor-limit it..a lot, no unnecessary scripts, NO particles(yes customers can turn them off, but I still see no need for them to begin with), you can do and say a lot with just a little decor, considering you want a multitude of party goers you're going to want to limit what the machines have to render, a ton of sculpty though it may look nice, could prove to be problematic, mesh-I wouldn't even bother with just yet still too many who can't see it (I visited a couple clubs the other day who use a mesh something or other for dance balls which don't function for the folks who can't see it(it should still work on touch, but it doesn't, I tried using a non-mesh viewer)
sorry TL;DR....umm, yeah...create a nice atmosphere, let word of mouth speak for you, have events(and list them), you'll get there
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As much as I'd like to say there are "standards", because that's really what it comes down to (at least I hope, lol), I can honestly say that despite my strong desire to see them, I would never presume another should follow my actions, ideals, or desires. I know it probably sounds strange, since I DO have some set standards that often dictate who I will shop with. But that's as a customer, not a merchant. I don't want to, as a merchant, tell others what to do. I can make recommendations, give ideas, tell them what works best for me and what I've seen work(or even not work) for others. But I don't think I, or anyone actually, gets to dictate the be all end all. As Mickey pointed out, that's exactly what a badge, or seal of approval, type thing would do.
It's not so much the idea itself I take issue with. It's more in how it would be brought to fruition, kept up, constantly improved upon, made known to the *entire merchant community..things like this. The actual funtionality of such a thing. Because, like I already said, it sounds fantastic, in theory. But when you really think about the functionality and how it would come to be, there are far more obstacles than you can see on paper.
I don't think some seal of approval will help much, but that's my own personal hangup. I have some serious issues with some of the creators who are known grid-wide as "the best of the best"-both in their creation as well as "in person"(as in, their person/personality, etc..). I have had terrible dealings with some of them. Yet you rarely, ok *I* rarely, hear a bad word uttered, and those who dared, well lets just say it didn't bode well for those folks. I'm not pointing direct fingers, I'm not going to say who or what or anything like that. This is just one example of the type of merchant who will most likely make it through and get that special seal of approval-despite the fact that they-like most-have flaws too.That bothers me tremendously. It probably shouldn't, and it's most definitely my own hangup, but it still exists. It's one of the reasons(there are many, lol) why I seriously dislike such organizations, groups, committees and whatnot. Too unbiased for my taste. I just don't think it's possible for most people to remain unbiased. Sure a few can pull it off, but I don't think most can. Especially those who are friends with such and such merchant. How will/would you make certain they didn't overlook issues simply based on that alone? We can't pretend folks wouldn't, lol. Because they would. Unfortunately even some of my best friends in the world with the best intentions in the world, haven't made the wisest of decisions. I don't exclude myself from that either. I would never want to be on such a committee because frankly, I might be a bit too harsh if I felt I was put in such a "power" situation, or maybe I wouldn't be harsh enough, and then I'd second guess myself.. Yeesh, that's a lot of responsibility to place on the shoulders of ordinary human beings, eh?
Marketplace is far from perfect, in fact I've not run into one person yet who says otherwise. It so has it's flaws. But there are just as many inworld, at least, as there are on MP. Let us not forget that a lot of the merchants on MP also have locations in world, not all, but a lot. The same goes in the reverse. Inworld or on MP, neither is immune from crappy customer service or merchants who maybe just don't care as much as others. I honestly haven't yet seen anything that gives me hope this idea(or any idea I've seen to date, so I'm not just being critical of this one) can change that. I've seena lot of ideas tossed around, many never make it off paper. But I've not found a successful one yet.
Wanting change, and being able to actually create it are two totally different creatures. For now, your best bet is to let your feet, your fingers and your wallet do the talking for you. Got an issue? Use the avenues available to you, that includes word of mouth as well(within the limitations we're given in sl of course), make sure you let your money do the talking for you too. Find a wonderful creator? Use the avenues available to you to tell the masses, and continue to be a patron. I like what we've got available, for now. Though I hate the rating system on MP and think it needs either a complete overhaul and rework or simply removed...I KNOW such a rating system inworld would never work.(for the very reasons it doesn't work on MP, except likely on a larger scale inworld). So something like a BBB seems, to me from what's been described, as though it's just another rating system. Which is an epic failboat at the moment.
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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:If any of that applies to me (and it does, whether intentionally or not) all I can offer is an apology (unlike LL) and a better 2012 (like LL). But guilty of that. Daily operations are always kept up with (which consist of mostly trying to figure out what refunds or replacements to give out), but updates are far, far behind.Partially due to hurry up and wait for certain functions, certain bugs to be fixed, hitting a brick wall with development and communications outside of SL with scripts, thinking mesh would be here sooner rather than later, etc. Inability to build the kind of product we want to move forward with.Ultimately no excuses and I bear full responsiblity as a merchant.Our backs are against the wall now with mesh. In order to stay current and not get crucified with future land impact calculations and script limits, we may have to go that way even though some of our customers may not be able to enjoy it because LL is unable to provide a single viewer that works for everyone, leaving TPVs to play catch up.Agree with the irony, and there's far more of it than you think on all sides. I'll take that as a nudge to shut up and get back to work.Disclaimer that I never meant that anyone should be excluded from becoming a merchant, or that they should be some form of elite class. Only that merchants should have an environment on par with any other online commerce system.
lol, I would never demand an apology of anyone(though they're always appreciated) but it actually didn't have anything to do with you. I've been just as guilty(as I already stated earlier) of the very same things. That's likely how I recognize them as easily...and exactly why i'm as forgiving when I do see/experience them. I know what it's like to be on the other side of those mistakes.(a little too well in some ways with rl businesses, but that's another subject for another day, haha)
I'll have to state again, for the record, that such an entity only sounds good on paper. Unfortunately, that's how a lot of ideas start out. Sometimes we can make them actually BE better than they sound on paper. More times than not, we can't. That's exactly what having some sort of committee(at best) be in charge of something like this would be. If anything, it might actually scare people away, not just from purchasing from folks who haven't been branded with a seal of approval, but also from making many other purchasers. Because who in their right mind is going to trust a bunch of other beings who likely have a vested interest in the failure of their competitors. I know that probably comes off kinda harsh and not likely what's intended by the idea. But that's exactly what it would become. It wouldn't be something officially supported by LL-thankfully-which will make folks even more wary. It will likely lead to some folks thinking others have an inflated head. I hate to sound so catty(I know, doesn't seem that way but I really do), but this is what we've already got with all the "best" blogs, sites, sims, magazines and whatnot we've already got. They leave a bad taste in the mouths of thousands-far more than benefit from whatever it is they provide. They just don't see this-because they choose not to. It rubs folks the wrong way. We don't need a grammy award show, a seal of approval, a best of the best...yadda yadda... in an environment like this. If anything, we need more things that put us all on a level playing field where we belong. We need folks willing to accept that just because they think someone else isn't up to snuff, compared to them, doesn't mean they can't offer guidance, advice, assistance even...or at the very least, not think so little of them. We need for products and businesses, as much as merchants, to actually stand on their own merit(and not because they are on some list, have some approval by some agency, things like this).
I dunno. I stick up for the big guy too, but the big guy doesn't need someone in his corner. The little guy does. Especially the little guy that might not know how to defend himself, or might need some help getting off the ground, making improvements. Call me kooky, but I'd rather see MORE merchants in sl, not less, even ones directly competing with me(and since I don't have a particular area that would be a lot of people, haha). I don't like ideas that would prevent someone else from taking their business plans and moving forward with them. Whether or not they succeed, we shouldn't be trying to stop them. I get that some folks don't want to help others-I don't agree, but, whatever tickles your pickle. But what I don't understand, is giving more reasons for folks to NOT want to join the creative community. We've certainly got room for all.
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RaptonX Zorger wrote:I had to re add my paypal to payment info when I went to cash out today, I added and had to enter paypal login, it worked and all, I think, waiting for the credit to process, but why would it do that? Did they lose the info when they changed the system?
Not real sure about things changing with the system change(I don't really know which system change you're talking about, truthfully). But I have had this happen more than once. I once read a complaint about it on the forums, but I've no clue where and it was some time ago. I haven't had it happen for a couple years now though. It very well may just be some minor bug.
As long as it takes this time for you, and stays put, I wouldn't worry. If it doesn't stay put, you might want to file a ticket or something, so they can at least look into it.
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We're all merchants to some degree here and I think the moment you start trying to decide who is "serious", "deserving", or who is or is not a merchant among the actual sellers of the world(even a virtual one), you have already overstepped the line. Little tough to come back from that one too, imo. Because you've already said things that place your foot firmly in your mouth.
No one here, or anywhere really, gets to decide who is or is not, imo. Even the dude selling nothing but freebies offers a service to someone, somewhere. I think it does us all a little good to welcome any and all, even if we feel they are below us (I don't personally feel like anyone is below me, in fact I'd much prefer to believe everyone is above me, gives me something to work for, when I want to).
I have got to admit I am finding a ton of irony in this thread though. I see at least a couple merchants who I am quite fond of as a patron that can't even follow their own, umm, advice, let alone what most would likely deem "good business practices". In fact they've downright got some really bad practices, like skipping town on their customers for months(not actually going anywhere, I mean failing to contact despite being inworld, on forums, etc..), not offering updates after promised, not fixing broken things and poor customer service in general. They'd likely be shunned by any BBB that existed to begin with, lol. But, like I said, I'm a patron of them, which means they must offer me something, right? Either that or I'm an idiot-which is entirely plausible too. See even "good" merchants, can do bad things. This is something I recognize. Personally I liken these folks to being more on my level of sorts. Whether they offer better things(including customer service) than I do, or not, I sort of put them down in the hobbiest area. So I'm a bit more forgiving when things go awry or they don't quite perform on this super mechanical and structured timeline, putting out only top dollar and top notch products, always around 24/7..etc..etc... I think you get my point. I'm actually more likely to be a patron of a business like that for the simple fact that I can connect on some level. Weird maybe, but sometimes my brain just works that way.
But to then see them say what others should do, and how eliminating the merchants that perform much like they do(albeit it in different areas), sorta makes me chuckle a bit. I'm not trying to knock people I'm just not sure if some realize the irony of their statements, or if they even realize their customers are actually reading what they have to say, lol. Sometimes it does us well to think about what we say before we actually click send. Else we come off a tad bit...erm...."off" to our customers, at best, and at worst we give them reason to high tail it out of here because we can't even keep our own stories straight. In other words, if you can't actually provide even some of the most basic customer service it's probably best you not tell others that they should, lol. You haven't really a leg to stand on.
edited to add-this isn't actually a reply to Chelsea, lol, I just clicked the reply button so it automatically says that..sorry for any inconvenieces, forgot it does that til after I did it...oops.
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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:Frankly, I'm not all that professional most days. My store is a mess. It would not meet your group's standards, according to that list you supplied.
lol, you stated that better than I could. I am far from a professional in sl. I've been creating for some time now and sometimes I even wonder why I call myself a creator, haha, I'm often times just "playing", you know? Don't get me wrong I absolutely LOVE what I do, and I love learning new things. I enjoy the fact that my rl benefits from it as well. But I'm not on some top 10, top 50, even top 500 list for a reason. I don't have the means, and most times desire, to be that "big and famous", for lack of better term. But I do provide a level of customer service that I expect of others. If/when there is an issue(hey, it happens, lol), I fix it as soon as I can. I have only had one issue never resolved and when that was over I realized the person had mistaken my product for something else, likely felt sheepish, and stopped contacting. Eh...such is life, right? Beyond that though, I've always handled things as quickly as possible.
My standards aren't the same as others, my stuff isn't nearly as good as a lot of stuff, but I wouldn't consider anything I offer(service or product) as substandard....still I wouldn't want to place myself on the same "level" as it were, as someone with a huge business-been here for years-thousands of customer base-huge group-constantly putting out new content-up to date on the content they put out(ie mesh and such)...it just feels wrong.
I like being a little hole in the wall, mom and pop, type shop. It serves me well. I love knowing that I can always go up from here, so to speak. My content can always be improved, I'll never plateau. I am always learning, always improving, always doing better than the year before. My store is tiny, it's not even a building and it likely never will be(unless someone wants to give me a building rent free forever...bwaahaaaa...I kid, I kid, I wouldn't want that). My actual store has less items than my MP even. I put stuff out pretty slowly, unless I've a ton of time on my hands-like right now since we're a couple months ahead in lessons and waiting on curriculum, lol. I'll likely put out a couple month's worth of stuff in the next couple weeks. But then it'll be a bit before I add more. That's just how I work. I'm a very small fish, in a very big ocean that doesn't want to strive to be a big shark
Not saying a BBB, or anything like it, would require such things. It just seems to me that being on such a list, there are certain expectations that may manifest simply by association, and I have a very difficult time thinking otherwise. You're going to have people on there that do all of the above I've already described and folks like me just wouldn't fit those "standards" set forth by others(intentional or otherwise), it would make me feel awkward. But that's just me. That doesn't mean the IDEA behind it is bad, or couldn't benefit others. Even if it did come to fruition and work grandly, I'd likely never participate for that reason alone. I'd feel weird, and I think I'm weird enough
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Sassy Romano wrote:They're all wrong, trust me the way it works these days is that YOU pay the merchant to sell items on your land.My fee is quite reasonable *smiles*
ROFL!! I like this idea
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Chelsea Malibu wrote:I dont recall every mentioning a fee. In fact, I had planned on using a hosting account I already have for the website and that it would be open to anyone.BTW all ideas start from a theory. SL started as a theory.
How exactly would you get all merchants together? How would you inform merchants all over the grid that the service exists?
I'm going to be blunt here....you need to quit taking offense to everything people say. Just because some point out flaws in the idea doesn't in any way negate the 'theory" or the idea, nor you. In fact, if I were you, I'd be encouraging people to point out the flaws. You do want your idea to come to fruition, and to be successful, and to provide a valuable tool for merchants and customers alike, right?(I think thats kinda obvious, lol). Then you need to be willing to accept that people are GOING to challenge this. You're aksing merchants what they think about an idea...and then acting offended when they answer. That's a bad start, if you ask me.
I've made that mistake myself, both in real life and even in second life, as a business person. Never, ever ask others what they think, if you're not prepared to listen, and accept what they say. Some folks will be bluntly truthful with you-whether they are for or against the idea. Some folks won't be quite so blunt. But that doesn't mean either one is right or wrong. Your reactions to the answers you receive however, will speak volumes. Right now, I'm not convinced you've thoroughly thought the idea through. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's the truth. Coming as someone who may be a teensy little creator with a teensy business in sl, but one who has owned a business in rl for more than 13 years now. That's about the only time you'll ever hear my toot my own horn, lol. I didn't get where I am by being defensive anytime I was challenged, not learning from my mistakes and the mistakes of those before me, and pretending to know it all(again I apologize for being blunt but I don't know any better way to say this, it's just exactly how you're coming off in this thread and I don't think it's intentional, but, yeah, you're giving people a reason to *not be confident the idea will work). I have no qualms being honest with people, when they ask me to. But I do, at least slightly, take issue when people ask for opinions but don't really mean they want honesty. That rubs me the wrong way.
So....good luck with your idea. I'll check into it a year from now and see how it's panned out. Right now, I don't believe it will. Please prove me wrong
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I only support such an idea in theory.
In practice it could never work, for all the reasons already stated. Humans in this virtual world simply cannot remain unbiased. So exactly how would you support/protect *all* merchants and not just those bigger names out there? You'd require some kind of "fee" to join, right? That right there is where the buck stops. No one, in sl, should have to PAY to be known as a good business. Sorry, that just doesn't fly with me. A good business, a great creator, these things will stand on their own merit as they always have.
What recourse could a BBB in sl do for the customer who's been wronged? Absolutely nothing. In rl the BBB while still not a perfect solution, remains one *tool for consumers to offer them a little bit of something. But it offers them absolutely nothing if the business isn't registered(much in the same it would do in sl). So what exactly would a BBB in sl do that word of mouth can't, and doesn't, already do?
If you want to convince people that this idea would work beyond simply theory, you need to give them *reasons it would work. Not just state the obvious. Of course customers have problems. In any world, this happens, and while we'd all love for no one to ever have problems, that's not realistic thinking. You do realize that for the most part we only hear from folks who have bad experiences, not nearly as often from folks who don't. Those experiences tend to trickle down when we make recommendations and such to others. But rarely will you see someone post, for example here in the forums, about a fantastic experience. But you will hear about a lot of the bad ones. That's the nature of the beast. Nothing anyone does can, or will, change that. People who are upset about something are more likely to be loud(er).
So, if you really think this is a great idea, you're going to have to convince the masses before you'll get much support. It would be a wise idea to actually break down how you think it should work, what it would entail(right down to the nitty gritty details), what you can do for consumers and merchants alike. Just posting the idea, which is done, as someone else said, at least once a year, isn't enough. So provide proof that "your"(general you, of course, as this is a frequent pipe dream around the merchant world, lol) idea will be different from anything we've already got, won't simply be some "what's hot" list like all of it's predecessors, will offer something we actually need and isn't just an idea that isn't fully thought through. Give folks something to actually think about, a reason to believe this is a fantastic idea. Theories won't work here. We'd love it if they did, but they just won't.
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Oh yes that's another great point, traffic. I'm surprised I forgot it haha, that's a big one on my list. I look at places for their *actual traffic too. If I stop by a location a lot in a week's time and never-or rarely-run into another av yet they have traffic in the thousands, I know something is askew. It could be SL, it could be that the landowner is gaming traffic. I keep an eye on places like this. If I see it as a pattern for a few weeks9traffic way higher and not really indicative of my experience there), I simply walk away. Sometimes those numbers aren't all they're cracked up to be.
But if a place truly brings in that traffic, and most especially if that traffic is actually productive(in other words buying, which you'd likely have to talk to other merchants renting there to find this out), then this is a place I definitely want to put on my list of potentials.( I create lists for lots of stuff, lol)
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I can't really tell you what you should price at, specifically. But I can tell you what I would look at, as a merchant, in deciding whether or not to rent from you.
Is the cost less than $2L per prim?(preferably $1L
but even $1.5L per isn't all too bad, dependent upon the other things here of course. $2L and up is my cap and I won't pay that price no matter what. I WILL pay *up to $2L, but you better have a darn fine place that fits my criteria perfectly if you want more than $1.5L).What else is on the sim? A club?(that will almost always cause less merchants to rent from you unless/until your club is very well known and your attendants do actually shop at the locations around it-which is pretty rare these days), other large stores? breedables?..the list could go on but this is a pretty big one.
How many other merchants am I sharing a spot with? I don't mean my particular spot, but rather the sim, or at least this area. Too many and it's not likely worth it, people get tired of walking around aimlessly so places won't likely get as much random foot traffic, only traffic they actually direct themselves.
What, if any, advertising will this owner do for me? Not a dealbreaker by any stretch but it's definitely a nice touch and honestly I think it's actually needed for most who rent out shop space, these days.
What are my limitations? Speaking mostly of specifics like scripts(vendors and whatnot), design and such. Do you allow your tenants to put up ban lines(I walk away at this too)
Do you have a forced landing point? If so, it doesn't matter if you're giving me the spot for free, I won't rent it. I loathe these with every fiber of my pixel being and refuse to even vist places that have it, much less pay them to use it. You'll find more people that dislike forced landing, than those who don't really care. But this especially applies to places like malls, shopping centers and the like that offer different services or venues all over the sim. It's stupid to make people land in the one spot you think is the prettiest. People won't be able to teleport in friends. They won't be able to return to their favorite spot. If they crash they can't return where they left off. There is just rarely any need for this option-and most definitely no need for it in a shopping location.
What does this plot look like? Did you put a little too much attention into decor? Is it subtle? Does it feed into the atmosphere without yanking away attention from the shop/s? It's entirely possible to overdo it on decor, in fact, a ton of people do it(far too many, even some of the most famous/popular makers make this terrible mistake). It's nice to have a well layed out location, and great decor. It's terrible for the customers that might not have machines that meet your machine's specs and therefore can't really enjoy what you've got out(but will more likely suffer client side issues)
What sort of person is the landowner? Will he/she be around if I need help? Does he/she require ncs, IMs, or both? Is there other staff available should the owner not be on? How long has this person been on the grid? What sort of experience does this person have?(yeah those are actually important to me)
Those are just some of my main ones. I've got little quirks too but they're pretty irrelevant for most, and some might even be uber petty. I am VERY picky. I've only had a few satelite type stores/locations in the last couple of years. One I'd still have if the owner didn't lose her battle against a lifelong disease. She was an awesome land owner. The others, eh, fizzled because I saw them starting to make a lot of the same mistakes others made. Rather than get in too deep and be stuck, I got out(at least one of those sims is now gone). So I am EXTREMELY picky about where I would even look, let alone rent(it's even worse when I am the shopper, if it's even possible to get pickier, I pull it off)
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LoveAngeL Lyre wrote:
My inventory has about 15,500 items. If i don't do that or at least if i don't open the recent tab of inventory never i have more than 10,800 items loaded even i am online 2 hours. If i open the Recent tab it takes usually about 15-20 secs for my inventory to be fully loaded. In Phoenix again, same happens with the difference that inventory takes much longer time to be loaded.I have a, considerably larger, inventory count than this and I rarely ever have to do this. In fact the only time I have was a few months back when sl was just being a pain and I had recently done a fresh install. Now when I manually clear cache(I do often, habit, and I never, ever use the "clear" buttons and whatnot within the viewer, they're ineffective) sometimes my inventory loads a little slow. But that's not surprising. The inventory is huge and it's recreating files I deleted by clearing cache, it's going to take a bit longer.
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Marketplace shouldn´t allow freebies or dollarbies anymore
in Merchants
Posted
Before anyone can answer the "why the right" questions you have, you should probably answer the "why do you have any right to dictate" question first. If anything *that is a selfish outlook, not the person who believes they have a right to use their imagination to make the world theirs in whatever way(s) they so choose. As long as they aren't actually harming another or infringing on another's rights in sl, of course.(aka, abiding by the rules).
The whole "why do you think you can give things away" questions seem kinda loaded to me. I have to admit that your posts are coming off terribly pretentious, especially given your recent admissions in here the forums on your own performance as a merchant. The whole pot, kettle, sort of deal....yeah. For every finger you point, there are 3 more pointing right back atcha. At least that's my take. You're definitely not alone in that, I think it's a mistake we all make at some point.(inflated ego maybe? who knows why we do it, but we do, at times). I am guessing that's just a poor interpretation of what it is you're trying to say on my end. But I thought I should be honest and let you know that it's really reading something terrible. Hopefully, it's not intended to. (I can't imagine why any merchant would want to bite off the hand that feeds them, lol)
I'm one of those people who feels "entitled" to giving away that which I create. As a matter of fact, I give away things that compliment *your* product line
(and not just on marketplace either) I've been doing it since long before you even owned the product, and frankly don't intend to stop anytime soon. It's a need, and I fill it, end of story. I have just as much right to give those products away, as I do to sell them (and one would think you wouldn't judge so harshly since they DO compliment something you want to market to the masses, no?) A lot of people create things that compliment other creators, well, stuff. I don't understand this whole "OMG nooooo, don't giiiiiive it away" stance people have. But I am even more perplexed by the folks who have dozens, maybe even hundreds, of other merchants who both sell AND give away items that compliment theirs. If anything, we should be helping each other, imo. When what we make compliments something else people likely have, I don't see why we would want to shoot down that other merchant. I mean I guess if we were in direct competition, perhaps(well I'd understand the mindset, still wouldn't agree, but understand), but, that's not always the case. A lot of freebie items out there in the world compliment something else, or fill a need that someone else hasn't filled yet.
I should probably read the rest of the thread before replying, guess you struck a nerve though, haha.