ralph Alderton

@Madelaine, This problem, the SUPERABUNDANCE of dross, has existed for several years and now is reaching fantastic proportions. Perhaps, Madelaine, you should ask yourself why Secondlife is not growing ? Why retention rates of new users are so poor ? Why is the grid getting smaller ? 650 sims lost last year There are a number of reasons for this and one of them is the SUPERABUNDANCE of dross, 10L$ poor quality products at the marketplace. If Secondlife doesn't look good, how will it attract and retain new and existing users ?

@Stella, just checked and Confucius's real name was Kong Qiu And let's not forget Shakespeare : What's in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet;

@stella, So Stella, Stella Carver is your real name ?

@Rya I love Secondlife. I wouldn't say these things otherwise. If I was a coward I wouldn't say anything at all To see the right and not to say it is cowardice. confucius Courage is often lack of insight, whereas cowardice in many cases is based on good information. Peter Ustinov

Privacy - like eating and breathing - is one of life's basic requirements. ~ Katherine Neville All violations of essential privacy are brutalizing. Katharine Fullerton Gerould

@Stella, I'm an alt for a long term SL content creator and I don't post with my creator account because I say stuff that is sometimes controversial.

Josh, I am not a moderator and I deny everything 10L$ content is bad for everybody including the people who make it. It degrades the value of virtual goods and is degrading to content creators. But Josh, I certainly would dlete your posts if I had such powers :matte-motes-evil-invert:

@Daniel, this mesh forum is a great place to address this issue as Sae pointed out, the TLC necessary to create a top quality product is being undermined by the SUPERABUNDANCE of 10L$ pap. Mesh artists more than any other should be deeply concerned about the abundance of 10L$ content at the marketplace as it directly opposes and steals the visibility of content that takes considerable time effort and skill to create Daniel there is little point in us spending our valuable time creating the best quality mesh content we can, if nobody is going to see it or buy it because of a choked marketplace The equation is something like - if people don't see or find your mesh content, they can't buy it, they don't know it exists, so you as a mesh artists don't make more products because there's no point Things are seriously out of balance in the marketplace especially to the detriment of mesh content or any top notch content that takes considerable time and care to create

yes most definitely you should. It's outstanding, but there are some difficulties - growing pains

My apologies Jacki for the dramatic and ironic post but someone's got to say it All this price dumping and 10L$ content is just not good for the marketplace and not good for serious content creators

How to destroy Secondlife and the Secondlife economy : Sell your stuff for 10L$ or better still free ! You won't make any real money Linden Lab won't make any commission Nobody will value anything anymore because it costs next to nothing Good creators will stop creating and leave because they can't justify spending their life and time working for nothing Secondlife will turn into a virtual SLum populated by 10L$ dross and nobody will come and nobody will stay Long term, good creators can't create good content for 10L$ The more FREE there is in the world the less it is valued So if you want to destroy SL and the SL economy go ahead and join the 10L$ idiot bandwagon on the road to nowhere

Mesh is good. Mesh has the potential to transform SL but the Marketplace is bad for mesh. Creating top quality mesh content is a non trivial task, which means it takes time. The problem with the marketplace is that it is crowded with 0L$/10L$/99L$ products dominating the important first pages of any search keyword. This is especially bad for mesh creators because of the extended time it takes to create beautiful mesh content. If it takes several days to create a mesh product, it can not be sold for 10L$. It needs to be sold for at least 400L$ -500L$ to reflect the time and various skills involved and invested. But if you list a product at 400L$/500L$ who will find it ? Customers will find a SUPERABUNDANCE of pap and never see your mesh products. They won't even know it's available so choked is the marketplace Mesh artists can not get a proper ROI ( return on investment) with the current search algorithms that enable 0L$/10L$ products to dominate. 0L$/10L$ products degrade the value of virtual goods and the hard won skills of any good content creator. As a mesh artists can you justify spending several days making top quality mesh products for SL if there will be no proper return on investment ? If mesh is going to have any chance of transforming Secondlife for the better search needs to change. NO PRODUCT PRICED UNDER 100L$ should come anywhere near the top 20 pages when searching RELEVANT. Products under 100L$ should only come up in the first pages when one specifically searches for cheapest The skinny: The extended time it takes to create beautiful mesh content is ruined by the loss of visibility in a price dumped, choked marketplace. Because there's no proper return on invested time, top quality mesh content will not be made and SL will not be transformed by mesh

If it's a multi-user 2d game platform with a marketplace where content creators can sell art assets, scripts etc and full 2D mobile games,, that might be interesting. If it's a text based thing, pfft, I have no words to describe how I feel about that ! 16k people a day are interested in Secondlife. Secondlife is a killer product. Linden Lab ALREADY have an astounding product. Shame LL are killing and preventing Secondlife's growth with painfully high tier costs In the last year we've lost more islands and the concurrency is low and has been flat or falling all year, even with 16k attempeted sign ups a day - something is seriously wrong We have more interest in SL (16k a day ) yet less users, less sims, less concurrency. I wonder what the problem could be ??? Perhaps, and I am plucking a wild crazy idea out the air here, maybe, tier costs are too high.

It's true, the Lab have done some marvelous things. Mesh, sizable big prims, dynamic lighting and shadows, ambient occlusion, benefits for new premiere users, bug fixes, better border crossings,etc, etc But unfortunately all the good things the Lab are doing are FALLING ON STONEY GROUND. No growth is possible. Tier costs are killing SL's potential. Concurrency has been falling all year. Grid size is stagnant or shrinking. The biggest problem we have is High Tier cost and it is sucking the life out of SL and turning SL into a glorified 3D chat room instead of a thriving virtual world Unless the Lab reduce tier costs substantially SL will continue to stagnate and shrivel It's a real shame to see such an exciting medium choked and smothered. High tier costs create an elitist class system in SL. If it had cost 300USD for a website in the 90's there would be NO INTERNET and because it costs 300USD for a full sim, SL is a tiny niche product compared to the world changing massive success that it could be. High Tier costs are killing SL's potential

Mickey, High Tier is clearly the main problem when it comes to retention rates and poor concurrency. Freebies and Junk on the marketplace are also a factor in the equation ! The SL equation for success is clearly in need of revision as the current equation is failing to grow SL

Vincent. 1. Real world concurrency ( RL world population ) currently stands at 6.8 billion and is growing at a rate of 83 million per year - and yes, Linden labs can do absolutley NOTHING about that ! 1a. LL are trying their best to improve concurrency, that's their job and that's the biggest indictaor of the success of SL - how many people use the SL World daily. 2. Yes we do need more land. It's a marker of SL success and growth 3. Mesh will not improve the ecconomy. The marketplace is already saturated and mesh sales will only REPLACE current already existing content sales. There will be no growth because of mesh as tier is too high to grow the userbase 4. Retention rates referes to the massive CHURNOVER of existing customers, who leave because tier cost is too high and onerous. It's no fun 5. Conversion rates refers to converting and keeping the 16k signups who register for Sl every day but don't become active users. And if some of them do become users others leave - proven by the fact that concurreny figures are stagnant and slipping because tier costs are way too high Linden Labs can do something about all 5 Mesh will not improve any of the above because we have a core problem undermining all of LL's efforts to grow the platform The core problem is that Tier costs are too high

Will mesh improve : 1. Concurrency 2. Land Ownership / Grid Size 3. The Ecconomy 4. Retention Rates (retaining users) 5. Conversion Rates (converting signups to active users) Unfortunately, I'm sad to say, NO. Mesh will NOT improve any of the above Mesh is an exciting and wonderful thing for SL and thank you LL Mesh Team that it's finally here. There is one thing it will improve, that is, the beauty of SL. But that beauty, the beauty of Mesh can not alone improve 1 to 5 listed above Unfortunately tier costs are so high that they negate the wonders of mesh and all the other good things The Lab are doing and have planned It appears that LL are working on amazing feature, after amazing feature, yet nothing is improving land ownership or concurrency. The grid is shrinking, concurrency is weak When will LL think it's time to address the REAL ISSUE that is causing SL to slowly slip downwards None of the wonderful things The Lab are doing will make any difference to concurrency and retaining customers until they do something about the absurd structure and price we have for land tier : Current Insane Structure Nobody is allowed to buy a Homestead without a full sim - driving customers away Huge setup fees - driving customers away Crazy monthy tier costs - driving customers away SL is a wonderous and amazing product priced way beyond the pockets of the masses they are trying to attract Tier costs are killing LL's efforts to grow the platform - Real Shame 'Denial ain't just a river in Egypt' Mark Twain

Shockwave you say .. ' Buying a sim is a serious step and people need to think of it as such ' And that is The Lab's biggest problem, it's a serious step only because it currently costs so much. The prices have been the same for so long now, it's like they are written in stone. Expensive setup fees, not letting people buy Homesteads without a full sim - these are all silly blockers on purchase and on converting and retaining customers $1000 USD to set up a sim. 30,000 sims on the grid So the Lab has earned let's say, approx. 300K USD from set up fees. That's chicken feed compared to the revenue gathered from tier. That 300K they earn is the biggest blocker to customers who want the product To block your customers from buying your product for such a tiny amount of money, compared to the possible revenue that could be collected from long term tier paying customers is madness They're really making it hard for people to buy their product And it really is completely insane, from a business perspective, to block customers from getting the product they want - their own Homestead - by forcing them to buy a full sim Sure - the logic is, protect the land market, blah, blah, blah - you have to have a full sim, blah, blah, blah One reason why the churnover is so great and the Lab fail to retain customers who love SL and have experienced owning land, is the lack of the sense of true ownership and control when they rent from third party land barons The land market and pricing is so badly in need of rebalancing and rethinking it's unbelievable that it's been the same for so long It's like the share holders and decision makers are frozen in time and they're too scared to change or unable to think of a better way of doing it There is a better way. Shame The Lab are collectively unable to see it or unable to persuade the share holders to see that the current land pricing model is totally F****** borked EDIT ooops 30 mil does sound more healthy but still a massive blocker on usage. And the 30 mil was collected over 8 years ( 3,750,000 per year average) to block your customers and stop them buying your product. And the grid hasn't seen any real growth since Oct 2008 when the price hike happened

Hello Shockwave, the reality is that the land market is frozen because of the Atlas program. The Atlas program supports and protects a few big land owners at the expense of everybody else. In fact the land market is under a terrible spell and we are frozen and stagnant partly because of the Atlas program, nobody new can enter the market and compete and that's a very bad thing. There's no incentive for those in the Atlas program to improve the quality of their land products and everybody else is locked out. To FREE THE LAND MARKET land needs to be more accessible. A landstore where users can upload sims and put them for sale as repeat sale products delivered to the grid by Linden lab. Instantly accessible. So a new user could shop the land store and choose from hundreds of different types of sims developed by the creator community. Homesteads 49.95 USD per month. Delivered on demand. No set up fee from the Lab but a $49.95 USD price for the ready made sim which is shared revenue (LL and the creator), let's say 30/70 in the creators favour The no set up fee would mean that people could change their sim every month if they felt like it and try a different theme. One month a beach sim with a beautiful beach house, the next month a forest with a gothic castle. The possibilities are endless and what a fun thing to promote. A whole new creative and competitive land industry could be created this way. Instead of the same old, same old tired offerings we see from most of the existing land barons. The new social users just want to deploy a sim and socialise. They don't have time to create or landscape or hire creators. They want READY TO GO SIMS. Fast Easy, Fun !

FREE THE LAND MARKET ! AND MAKE A BILLION USD A YEAR 1. No set up fee for sims - Anyone can buy a Homestead 2. Half tier costs - 49 USD pm for Homesteads - 150 USD pm for Full sims 3. Let anyone buy and sell sims from the Land Store We have the SL marketplace for products, let's have a Land store with user designed sims for sale. This would create a healthy industry based on land and sim development that doesn't exist right now. No setup fees and low entry cost would mean that almost anybody could create/design/landscape and put them for sale at the NEW USER GENERATED LANDSTORE FREE THE LAND MARKET ! Linden Lab are supposed to be a super creative company with super creative people, so come on - create something new ! Let us put ready designed sims for sale at the land store The land market hasn't changed for years, it's stale , it's tired. it's boring FREE THE LAND MARKET ! Give us a landstore with a pretty web front end so new and existing users could shop for, and buy all kinds of ready made sims 

The lack of interest and lack of posted comments should deeply concern 'The Lab'. If it's core residents and creators can not be bothered to comment on these scary, flat, stagnant, economic stats, something is seriously wrong. 'Web Merchandise Sales Volume' is the only chart with any growth and that's a 'crock' because that just represents the loss and shift of inworld sales to the SLmarketplace. Very sad as this means there are less things to do, less places to go inworld. Driving everyone to the Marketplace is clearly having a negative effect on the overall ecconomy and the SL experience. But The Lab don't believe the Marketplace is having a negative effect as they are too busy congratulating themselves on the technical achievement We all know that there are 3 things wrong with SL : 1. High Tier Costs 2. High Tier Costs 3. High Tier Costs Tier is without doubt the reason why Secondlife is not booming and why LL don't turnover a several hundred million USD per year. So short sighted of them to make such a small amount of money compared to what they could be making, if they got Tier costs right I was going to say more about the terrible glut of of Freebies and 10L$ junk taking up important first pages at the SLM. I was going to say more about why I'm going to drop 4 full sims and why the marketplace is causing me to do this I was going to say more about the failure to convert 16k signups a day into active and eventually, paying users I was going to say more about a lot of things, but like many other creators and concerned residents, I'm worn out banging my head against a brick wall I love Secondlife, it's an amazing and special thing. But Linden Lab please know that we are all getting very weary with these crucifyingly high tier costs And still after years, you're really still NOT going to let ANYBODY buy a Homestead without owning a full sim ????? Marvellous idea. Don't let people buy your premium product. Why should they have what they want and at a price they can afford ! Nothing you guys do is going to have any effect what-so-ever unless you reduce tier dramatically. Mesh won't help, quests for newbies won't help, SL in a browser on facebook won't help, SL on mobiles won't help, SL on Ipads. Tier is slowly suffocating SL. Very great shame. First rule of Secondlfie ..... Don't mention Tier costs being to high !

Ralph pauses to think , "If one rotten apple spoils the barrel" What is all that junk doing to Secondlife ?

Hello Ciaran, it's not freebies alone, freebies are merely the tip of the iceburg of junk that SL has crashed into. 1. When people say it's no fun, that could easily mean it's no fun to look at, or it doesn't inspire me to have fun in a place that doesn't look good 2. When they say they can't afford it - it may mean for this much money it doesn't look good enough for me to continue paying and doesn't inspire me to keep paying 3. Runs slowly on my computer - because of all the poorly optimized poorly made junk overwhelming their computer Personally I often hear people who try SL say it looks old fashioned and rubbishy. I agree I have not questioned the 16k people a day who try SL and don't like it But what's amazing is that 16k people a day are intrested in trying Secondlife - that is AWESOME. I truly believe if Secondlife looked more enticing, more attractive, it would compell people's attention and increase their desire to explore and learn more. The effort it takes to learn Secondlife is not supported by a thrilling and beautiful virtual environment - if it was more beautiful and there was less junk people would be more ready to make the effort

Perhaps the problem is that very few Lindens actually use Secondlife so they don't know or care what it looks like. They don't think it matters, but it does ! How things LOOK is of primary importance.

Clearly the Lab don't think junk is a problem and don't think the way Secondlife looks is a problem. And that IS the problem. LL don't perceive, they don't GET why people are not staying and why the churnover is so incredibly high. Imagine saying to a 3D game company - hey it doesn't matter what the game looks like. Top 3D game companies entice new users with exciting screenshots of their games prior to release. They spend millions getting the art style and graphics right. The SUPERABUNDANCE of junk IS a problem and IS damaging the growth and popularity of Secondlife Not a popular opinion, not even considered a problem, but it's true none the less. The SUPERABUNDANCE of junk is hurting Secondlife