BilliJo Aldrin
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Posts posted by BilliJo Aldrin
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Maybe its a dumb question, but do any mainland full sims owners ($195 US per month level) have estate manager rights? or is that just for island owners?
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27 minutes ago, ChinRey said:
The starting bid for land auctions is as low as 0.5 L$ per sqm. There are 30 parcel up for auction right now and I think they keep it steady on that number.
Land is always set for auction at 0.5 L per m. If its not desirable you will get it for that price, but being beside protected land will see it bid way up, which is fine. I've won land auctions at the starting bid, the trick is to find something a land flipper won't be interested in holding.
I've also won bids on parcels beside protected land, you just gotta outbid the flippers.
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48 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
That doesn't work though. If the sim owner had bought it for 16L, then it would work, but all current mainland owners paid non-1L prices, and it's those who would have the real money they paid declared valueless. Those are the ones I mean. There would be uproar.
What happens when wanting to sell a mainland sim is irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody would would sit on one, paying tier for months, while hoping it sold. I wouldn't. I'd split it and try to sell it in small parcels. Even if the split small parcels didn't sell, it wouldn't make any difference. What you are proposing is devaluing the land to virtually zero, anyway. Nobody waits for months to sell a sim they no longer want.
Your suggestion would have worked very well indeed if it had been like that from the beginning, but, unfortunately, it wasn't.
Yes but if it takes 6 months to sell, you've paid 1200 dollars. Every month it costs you another 200 dollars. You'll never get the 1200 dollars back you spent waiting for a buyer.
When do you cut your losses and ditch the land? I've done the same for small parcels i want to get rid of before my tier is due.
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28 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
Perhaps they just auction the prime plots, set some for sale, and do nothing with most.
No land goes up for auction unless someone puts in a ticket asking to purchase it, at which point LL puts it up for auction, unless there is a strong case for direct sale. LL employees don't just wander around mainland putting land up for sale.
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5 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:
Yes, they are the same, except for one thing. When you 'buy' from an estate owner or another user (mainland), you don't actually get to own the land as such. We agree on that. But there is a difference. With mainland, you can sell it on for whatever you like. You can't do that with estate land. With estate land, you only 'buy' the right to use the land, and you can only use it within the covenant that the user-owner has written. I do understand what you are saying though.
There's something else to consider with your proposal. People who bought mainland paid a reasonable amount for it. An extreme is a whole sim, for which they would have paid hundreds of US$, if not more. Your proposal would instantly make their sims worth 16L each (that's less than 10 cents), because, with LL selling mainland at 1L per 4k, that's all they wouild be worth if they decided to sell. LL isn't going to do that. At least LL had better NOT do that. No company in their right mind would do that to their paying customers.
Yes, they are paying customers.. they are paying $195 dollars a month in tier. If they go one day over their renewal date, they will owe another $195 dollars. If it takes 6 months to sell, thats 1200 US dollars waiting to find a buyer. If I was done with owning a full sim, I'd just turn it back to Linden Lab.
The good thing is, if they change their minds a few months down the road , they get another whole sim for 16 L
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4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
It's because they don't sell land - not even for 1L. They never did. But you know that. All they want is a tenant. The 1L and 0L is just a way of making it seem cheap - a bit of a con, really.
I'd still like to know what size the 1L mainland parcels will be that you propose.
Mainland is exactly like estates. For 1 L you are buying the right to pay tier/rent to someone.. either the estate owner or Linden Lab.
LL needs the tier, not some inflated upfront charge.
The one good thing about land gougers, LL is collecting tier from them while they sit on the overpriced parcels.
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4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
It's because they don't sell land - not even for 1L. They never did. But you know that. All they want is a tenant. The 1L and 0L is just a way of making it seem cheap - a bit of a con, really.
I'd still like to know what size the 1L mainland parcels will be that you propose.
Mainland is exactly like estates. For 1 L you are buying the right to pay tier/rent to someone.. either the estate owner or Linden Lab.
LL needs the tier, not some inflated upfront charge.
The one good thing about land gougers, LL is collecting tier from them while they sit on the overpriced parcels.
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3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
Nevertheless, private estates are much more attractive in general.
I'm not saying that you are wrong. What I am saying is that I see no gouging and outrageous sale prices on mainland (I don't visit adult land and I think that gouging does occur there, but that's only a small bit of mainland). I'm also saying that doing what you suggest would have effects on pivate estates. LL can see the whole picture, and only they can know what the potential outcomes of your suggestion would be.
Incidentally, how big would these 1L parcels be? 512m, 2048m, whole sims? You can't just say "per parcel". And don't forget that LL sold the mainland in whole sims for thousands of US$ per sim. Perhaps that was before your time, but to turn around now and sell mainland for a nominal pittance wouldn't be quite right. Yes, I know that those who bought the sims cut them up and sold them on. Even so, people have been buying land at reasonable prices since the start. Suddenly making land worthless wouldn't be the best of ideas that LL could come up with, imo.
A better idea is one that some of us have been suggesting for many years. Abandon the doubling of land sizes for tier; i.e. 512, 1024, 2048 .... 32k, 64k. If we were able to pay for the land we want, I am sure that more mainland would be used. But increasing the tier by a large amount from say, 32k to 64k, puts people off from stepping up. E.g. if someone has 32k, and wants a bit more, they can't have it without hugely increasing their tier up to the 64k level. But if they could add, say, another 4k to their 32k and only pay for the new size, adding land would be much more attractive.
Having said that, we don't see the whole picture and it would undoubtedly result in people with, say 32k, reducing to, say, 24k, because they don't need all the 32k.
None of it simple. LL can see the whole picture, and make reasonable guestimates on the outcome of changes. We can't. You can't, and I can't.
I would have made the standard parcel 4096 since that seems to be the most popular size on estates.
I totally agree that tiers should increase incrementally instead of by doubling. I have a 8192 on a mature sim, I might be tempted to buy a bit more land if I didn't have to jump to the 16384 tier level
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1 minute ago, ChinRey said:
Oh, now you're starting to make sense.
But the answer is still no; the worst thing that can possibly happene to Linden Lab's income right now, is a mass migration from private estates to mainland.
For every mainland sim Linden Lab can manage to fill with people moving from the islands, there would be at least three or four private sims closing down. Nobody estate owner is making money from a three quarter full sim and none can afford to keep a half full sim for long. So, if a quarter or more of the tenants ona private estate moves to mainland, the owner will have no choice but to close the sim and very few of the remaining tenants are likley to ever rent or own land in SL anymore.
It might have been different back when SL land was popular and there was a significant influx of new wannabe landowners and renters. But that was many years ago.
What you say is very true I suppose. And like others have said, if LL is happy with the situation, why should they consider making changes?
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Tell me Phil... why don't estate owners sell their estate parcels for more than 1 L?
When you tell me why they don't, you will be telling me why LL should sell all their mainland at 1 L per parcel
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4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
I don't know where you got the idea that parcels that are for sale on the mainland are being sold by what you call 'land gougers', and at outrageous prices. Coincidentally, I was looking at mainland parcels a couple of days ago, and I didn't see any that were outrageously priced.
That's your opinion, but I have a different one. Mine is that people pick private estates because (a) they are usually much more attractive - water, beach, and such, (b) because there's covenant to protect them from ugliness, and (c) because there is hands-on customer care for tenants.
I don't really know what you mean by that. Mainland is acquired in the same way it has always been acquired - see it, buy it. Or bid in LL's auction for it. I don't see that LL is driving potential landowners anywhere but, if they are intentionally driving them to private estates, then they must have decided that it suits them financially.
You seem to have acquired a bee in your bonnet about mainland prices, but generally they are fine. Maybe you are only thinking about Adult land when you talk about price gouging. Or maybe you haven't been in SL all that long, and you think that anything much higher than 1L per sqm. is outrageous.
ALl i'm saying is LL should subdivide all their mainland and sell it for 1 L a parcel. Its the tier they want, not the sale price.
They will then be on an equal footing with estate owners. The customers can then decide if they want mainland or estate.
Then if a mainland land owner gets bored and wants to move, he just abandons it and buys another parcel for 1 L, again just like on an estate.
And for the record, some of the ugliest sims I've ever seen are on private estates
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1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:
Nothing at all, but I imagine that the LL management knows what they are doing with land, and I doubt that ideas to significantly increase profits haven't passed them by. From your point of view, it's perfectly simple - get more tier from mainland. Their point of view is different. They have to consider what impact such changes would make on their income, changes such as people moving from islands to mainland.
Okey lets say i'm a newly premium member. I think oh boy now i can buy mainland. Hmmm i can pay outrageous prices from a land gouger, or i can find a parcel and have it put for auction and hope i can outbit a land gouger, or i can just say screw it and buy a parcel on an estate right away for 1 L.
That's why so many people choose an estate, not because they want to, but because the alternative sucks.
LL is driving potential land owners away from mainland with the way it allows mainland to be aquired.
Money is money. LL makes as much money from a half full mainland sim as it does from a grandfathered / buy down estate sim but filing up mainland reduces its losses
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2 hours ago, lavalois said:
You have neighbours on island regions as well, but the third party rental companies are much more responsive to complaints. Dropping a complaint at Linden Labs doesn't really do anything. That's what is meant with annoying neighbours you can't do anything about.
Well, yes you can complain to the landlord, unless of course the land lord allows ban lines, giant ugly screens and worst of all vertical land walls.
On a 4096 on an estate you are trapped on your little parcel with no interaction with anyone at all.
On the other hand, just this morning I had to chase off a guy that was trying to steal one of my cars parked outside my place on a mainland road. I consider that a positive thing.
And no that's my bf not the car thief
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3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:
I imagine that the mainland is very profitable for LL as it is.
And whats wrong with a plan to make even more profit?
No one will be forced to move to mainland but I'm sure many people would jump at the chance to buy a mainland parcel on the same terms that they buy an estate parcel.
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I'm not trying to make this a mainland vs estate debate, all I'm wondering is why LL doesn't do something to try and make each mainland sim revenue neutral or profitable instead of so many being a deficit on the budget.
Mainland will always be large patches of abandoned land that cost money for LL until LL tries a new approach
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Ok, the tier of a full sim on mainland is 195 dollars of which an unknown amount is profit after all the expenses of hosting the sim and running LL are deducted. Ungrandfathered / non buy down estate sims net LL an additional profit of 100 dollars a month. But what about the goldmine they are sitting on?
I refer to all that abandoned mainland.
Tier on a 1/16 sim parcel (4096 sq m) is 25 dollars a month. If 8 such parcels are occupied, that bring in the equivalent of rent for a full sim.
But if all 16 parcels are rented, the tier for that sim becomes 400 dollars a month of which 200 dollars is pure profit over the normal profit.
Why oh why doesn't LL subdivide all of mainland, and offer it for sale at 1 L a parcel, just like estates do.
Even a partial migration back to mainland would greatly increase LL's income from land tier.
I'm sure many more people would love to live on mainland if only it wasn't so difficult to obtain land with paying land gouger prices.
Just my thoughts, even though i'm sure they will be ridiculed, shot down, dismissed, and torn apart.
*shrugs*
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ok i understand now Mr Stern, you can do whatever u want where ever you want until a Linden comes along and tells you its not acceptable.
Thank you
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21 minutes ago, Hunter Stern said:
I'm sorry but that is still ambiguous in it's definition. Where is this 'General Policy' source that one can cite?
Below are diagrams taken from: Legal/Second Life Terms and Conditions Page, Terms of Service, and Content Guideline and a list of references to all the policy pages. Nowhere is the term 'General Policy' mentioned or defined.
General policy is the whole thing. Sexually explicit content is explicitly banned from general regions. You've cited the sources yourself in your post. What exactly is the problem?
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ISP's should be a gateway, not a gate keeper
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On 11/19/2017 at 7:06 PM, Klytyna said:
There is a parcel setting called 'allow object entry'..
'build' determines if you can REZ a prim on a parcel, 'object entry' determines if you can MOVE a physical object across a parcel border.
Go to the Madlands, and stand on any piece of "LL Protected Griefer Prim Access Strip" (Madlanders call these "roads"), they all have 'object entry' enabled so physical griefer prims, spawning at a car rezzing port, can tumble across from sim to sim (and so Madlander Max, the Prim Warrior, can drive the Last of the V8 Primterceptors around the Madlands)...
I love all your posts Klytyna
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20 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:
Mesh bodies, hair, hands, feet, heads, clothing - just like a mesh table or anything else - are objects. It might be possible to figure out what is what in order to draw them first, but it would be messy and very fragile. (Broken more often than the feeds.) Best to alpha out anything on the body that you don't want showing.
Whats the fun of that?
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2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
Truth be told, you haven't really missed much by not getting a few.
I don't think I've ever picked up a premium gift, the few I've seen I've been like seriously?
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3 hours ago, Hunter Stern said:
To basically clear up any questions, yes one should ask a Linden or support on the matter (See attached image) It does not mean that any particular policy is allowed or forbidden or that a Linden does not know a particular policy. It simply mean on a case by case basis. So if anything, I'd let those that want to report a lone sex bed on a visual restricted group/private access only parceled house (even on a PG estate) and let a Linden make that determination , which the image clearly shows that it is a Linden staff's call.
in line with general policies... and the general policy is no adult items on a general sim
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LL is sitting on a gold mine
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
thought so, thank you