[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

4 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

That's my thought at least, but it doesn't necessarily need to break clothing though. With Maitreya clothing and tattoo layers fit skin tight, you can wear any clothing over it just as if you weren't wearing them, so I would assume this fix to work the same.

What I don't know is how that would work with an alpha hud, which most kid bodies have, since LL stated an alpha wasn't a good fix, so how do we alpha out for clothing then? That's another question that should be answered.

Regardless.of what body one wears, as long as it is BoM enabled, you can wear a system skin.  The type we all.used to wear.  If you want to present as a child/teen, wearing a system skin with modesty baked onto it should suffice.  It can't be removed but can be replaced.  Alpha cuts and all.other clothing for that mesh body will still work just fine.

 

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

6 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

A BOM layer can be removed. It's if built into the body it can't be removed. A different body must be used. I would assume, based on common sense, the don't mean BOM skin layer.

They do need to clarify since system skins on mesh bodies can not be removed, only replaced.  Would that be sufficient?  Words and word meanings are important.

I use the Velour system skin on my body and not a BoM tattoo layer.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I do see people in this thread conflating the LL rules with the fact individual region owners can "Ban" for whatever reason. 

That's my point.  There will be no less discrimination (which is what I was responding to) by owners of adult regions.  Many will actually be more concerned with those slim, short avatars being confused with a teen.  

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

26 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

No, I'm pretty sure that this clarifies that those who do have a petite build, are slim and are grown women don't have to live in fear for being women who are just skinny.

Stop trying to say that slim, petite or short is childlike, it's not. 

Ok then, all that secttion says is short, slim and petite will not be the sole factors if a abuse report is filed.  Short, slim, petite women may still be restricted from entering regions by region owners.  Better?

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

3 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

this leaves less room for discrimination, thank you.

That just means more will be considered if an abuse report is filed.  Region owners can still refuse to allow small, childlike avatars.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

I didn't say she was 20 years old, you're putting words in my mouth. I said she was a little child

with a 20 year old face.

And almost everyone agrees that it's not a 20 yr old's face.  

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

child-like

adjective

: resembling, suggesting, or appropriate to a child or childhood

You can certainly make a genus head look like a child.  It's called baby face for a reason?   There's a difference between a child-like appearance and a child-like sense of wonder, adventure, etc.  It's the appearance that matters in SL not how you perceive the world around you.  We all should have a child-like sense of wonder at times.  Just try not to have a child-like look in an adult area.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

1 minute ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

No. Proportionally (again, as an artist) it's wrong. Eyes too big. Nose too short with ratio of where the lips and nose tip are to top of head. Angle from flare of nose to outer edges of eyes wrong. Mouth far too small width-wise and too close to nose and bottom of chin.

I don't care what AI thing you're using to judge, but any artist who can draw a face well will tell you that's not a 20 year old face, except in the most cartoonish way.

I put that photo through 3 different age websites and they all said either 14 or 15.    

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

8 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

11 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

These kids look like kids, that face looks like an adult face that I posted.

No, it didn't look like an adult.

[Creators who stopped creating:]

LeeZu Baxter.  There are still a few pieces up on the MP.  A few of her system shirts I've picked up to wear underneath mesh clothing.  Great attention to detail and some really unique pieces.

[Proposal for Immutable Age Demographics and Enhanced Visibility Features.]

21 minutes ago, JacksonBollock said:

The second last verse goes like this.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'"

And what Dylan meant by that song was accept and learn how to swim, or fight against change and sink like a stone.   At the time, it applied to the Civil Rights movement.  

[ai on sl]

2 hours ago, AlCaponejonathan said:

we do need morw help with the   new guys how just stare 

If you mean the starter avatar whose eyes do not move, that is something addressed by most other mesh heads.  My avatar's eyes move by using the facial animations included with my head.  LL could easily add those to the starter avatars but those avatars are basic for a reason.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

25 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Couldn't the whole BoM thing on top of your base avatar's skin layer problem be solved by either LL themselves making approved kid avatars (though after Senra's overall look, maybe not) or simply have any shop selling child/pre-teen avatars simply turn off BoM and work with any one of a handful of popular skin places to make them in the right skin tones?

For example, you go to shop for your 10 year old avatar body at "10 year Olds R Us" and but one boy one. Voila, inside the HUD for the body are 10 skin settings from Velour to pick from (much like the new LaraX comes with), and no BoM option, so that when buy your head you simply need a skin for that head that matches the Velour tones?

I kind of mentioned this earlier.  Technically, a system skin can't be removed but can be replaced.  Velour could make a killing offering skins for child/teen avatars which include the modesty.  No BoM layers.  

Unless LL requires a specific body with a specific skin, skin creators will have a new group of customers interested in modesty skins that will match their existing faces.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

32 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

No more so than an entire neighborhood scattering when the police show up.

Well sure, if the neighborhood has a brothel and a crack house.  Around here, we all head out to the porch and sit around to see what's going on because most of us aren't doing anything wrong.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

6 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

A fallacious argument, when we're talking about a company, with all due respect to the Lab, has not historically been known for being fair and balanced.

A Linden shows up and everyone suddenly leaves doesn't seem suspicious to you?  It would to me if I were a Linden.  If the people weren't doing anything wrong, why would they leave?  What exactly is the Linden going to do about people doing nothing wrong?  I don't see the logic in it.  Sorry.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

I'd think everyone running away would look kind of suspicious.  

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Yes they do, but why waste money on the wardrobe system? just get a free collar and set up rlv outfits. It's quite simple, I can explain it to anyone interested.

People are terrified of rlv, they are so afraid strangers will grab them and do unspeakable things to them.

Well it's never happened to me

*sighs*

Hundreds if not thousands use the CTX wardrobe system and it uses RLV.  It also has a visual wardrobe which the simple rlv folders do not.  No collar needed either.

 

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

Just now, Madi Melodious said:

I also wear something called a "littl helper" it lets my friends move me if I've gone afk and I need to be moved for some reason.  Not all RLV is about sex and adult activity.  Actually, we all war one and we have a number of times carried one of our group from an event after they have been called away for RL.

Yes, thank you.  Someone else.mentioned it was needed for strollers and such.  I'm sure it has an white list though and people wouldn't intentionally TP you to an adult region.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I've always worn a collar, force tp is part of the collar menu, dunno about alternatives

You can also turn some of that stuff off or only allow certain people access.  I'd assume anything regarding child RP.would also have those.options.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

1 minute ago, MissSweetViolet said:

 

Many huds that let parents pick up their kids or walk them in strollers and give snacks/drinks, like Starries use RLV to do this.

Then the responsible parent should be careful to not force TP their child.to an adult region.  They should also require their child to not have Adult ticked in maturity preferences.  If you're going to play as a parent, take responsibility for your child's welfare.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

RLV is used for other things besides having an owner. A clothing HUD uses it. My dance HUD from Paragon uses it.

True, but AFAIK, you need to allow someone else to have any control over RLV.  Not sure why anyone playing a child would need to.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

10 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

What? This is all LL says about the modesty layer in their "clarifications" page.  I don't see any further description in the FAQ.

I see no requirement that the skin be made by the creator of the body.  Just that a modesty layer be baked into whatever skin a child avatar is using.   As I read this, the modesty layer must be part of the skin, not a separate BOM garment that the avatar could remove to become nude.  Every skin that a child avatar uses must have a modesty layer; if they use a skin that does not, they are not in compliance.

That's my understanding, too.  A skin can not be removed but can be replaced.  If I replace it, as a non-adult character to an adult skin, same body, same shape, I'd be in violation.

 

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Actually .. this has just been brought to my attention,

Maitreya (and other adult bodies) have geometry based sexual characteristics. Making a child avatar with that body isn't possible as the body itself violates the rules.

Does this mean that anyone wearing Maitreya could not be considered an child avatar and is therefore .. safe ?

That can be removed using the BOM layers, IIRC.  It smoothes out that area so BOM doesn't look as if you have a wedgie.  With a BoM skin with modesty and that function enabled, there would be no definition to.that area.

ETA...on my Reborn,.I can get rid of those characteristics via.the HUD.  Not that I'd use reborn for a non-adult avatar.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

It goes further than that. The skin must be made by the creator of the body and be locked in so there is never an option to be removed. The body must never be able to be nude. If you buy other skins with the modesty layer but the body is still capable of wearing a skin without the layer then you're not compliant. 

How does.that make sense?  If I use Maitreya to make a teen avatar, all I need is to use a skin with baked on undies.  If I decide.to be an adult avatar tomorrow, I can change shapes and heads and use an adult skin on that same Maitreya body.

[So what changed in the Terms of Service?]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yeah, right -- just like they pro-actively monitor the MP for other rule infractions.

 

Yep, there's a whole lot for that AVI(L) avatar that is questionable if the avatar is intended for children.  Strippable bikini?  Oh hell no.