ChinRey

This may be too obvious, but you did check that all your MP listing still are in place and in order, didn't you? Actually, I took a quick look at your store and there are three items that aren't - they're listed as A rated for no obvious reason. If those three are good sellers and their ratings have changed recently, that may explain the drop in sales.

Chic Aeon wrote: Our platform is based on a system where prims (LI) are directly tied to money -- money that needs to be spent EACH MONTH in order to support the items we rez on our land. If you are a creator that expects to sell things, you really NEED to keep items under a certain land impact count. If you don't (and you are trying to sell) you might as well stop as no one will buy your items. So there are choices to be made and each content creator makes them. Yes but even with those quality level requirements, if the mesh is well made, you'll run out of land to build on long before you run out of prims even on a homestead sim. The fact is, there are so many more efficient and less destructive ways than LOD butchery to reduce a mesh' land impact. It just takes a little bit of thinking, a little bit of studying, a little bit of understanding. So no, LOD butchery is not a way to save LI, it's just an excuse for lazy and/or incompetent builders not to do a proper job.

Even more thanks for posting an explanation on the blog! That alone is a HUGE improvement to Linden Lab's customer service!

Log on to your account at the Second Life website: https://secondlife.com/ Then, in the left column, click on "Account" and then on "L$ Transaction History". There you can look up all transactions for the last 32 days. Unfortunately there is no way to view anything older than that.

Naiman Broome wrote: Physics 0.2 ( its just a triangle, not sure how can I go further down here ) 0.2 is the lowest possible phsyics weight for an upload but you can get it all the way down to 0 afterwards by settign the physics shape to "none" and you want to do that if possible since a mesh with a single triangle physics model won't have a physics shape that makes any sense anyway. Naiman Broome wrote: Could I go further down under 1.1? Depends on the complexity of the object. The lowest possible download weight is 0.06

Drongle McMahon wrote: Assuming HD is the high detail visible mesh, and lod are the lower detail meshes, they have to be in different files. So they can't be in one mesh. To avoid a possible misunderstanding here, the different LOD models are created as separate mesh files but they are uplaoded as a single mesh. In the uplaoder, select "from file" for each LOD model and then select the apropriate file from your harddisk. The uploader will then combine them all into a single SL mesh. Speaking of LOD models - I know I'm repeating myself here but it's rather important: One of the cheats unskilled mesh makers use to reduce the land impact, is to butcher the LOD models. You can save a lot of LI that way but the item will look horrible even at moderate viewing distances. So be very careful which details you include in each LOD model and never ever let the uploader generate them! The benchmark for good mesh is that it looks ok with default mid quality graphics settings (that is RenderVolLODFactor 1.25 and draw distance128 m) at any distance until it's so small you won't see it or it's cut off by the draw distance. For items specifically made for indoors use or in other restricted spaces, you can lower the requirement a bit but with the room sizes you sometimes get in SL, it should still be perfectly good looking at - say 30 m distance. Any mesh that doesn't meet these requirements is sub standard and no builder who takes pride in their work want that of course. (Except, this applis to "public" mesh - items you sell or give away or palce in public view. What you make and upload for your own private use in your own private place is niobody's busniess but yours.)

Chic Aeon wrote: Just wanted to note that there have been many discussions on this forum about using different textures for the different LODs and the general consensus was that it wasn't the best idea. It is generally not a good idea. But there are exceptions when it makes sense to use an impostor texture for the lower res models. An imposter texture is a separate face with an picture of the item - or a particularly detailed part of it. It is hidden in the high resolution LOD model and brought forth in all or some of the lwoer ones.

As Chic said, size can be quite significant here and there is no absolute answer to how many polys you can have. But perhaps a short explanation how LI is calculated will help. The way you ask, I'm sure you know this but just in case: LI is based on three of the four "weights" that are estimates how much lag the object causes. Server weight is how much work it is for the servers to retrieve the object info from the assets database Physics weight is how much work it is for the sim server to calculate the physics shape of the object Download weight is how much data needs to be transferred The land impact is the highest of these three weights, rounded off to the nearest whole number. In a linkset, each weight is summed up separately before the LI for the linkset as a whole is determined (There is a fourth weight too, render weight (aka display weight or display cost) but that's about how much work it is for our computers to handle the object and Linden Lab couldn't care less about that so it's not taken into account for the LI even though that is where the lag actually happens nowadays.) Server weight is easy to calculate. It is always 0.5 for each part of a linkset plus somehwere between 0.2 and 0.3 for each active script. Physics weight depends on the physics model and it can be a bit of a black art to get that as low as possible. Usually that's not the limiting factor though. Download weight is the sum of the file sizes for each LOD model weighed towards how often it is estimated that LOD model will be needed. The reason a larger mesh usually has higher download weight is that it needs the higher, more detailed, LOD models more often sicne they're used for longer view distances. The file sizes for the lower LOD models count for more than the higher ones, since they will always be downloaded more frequently. Size and poly count are not the only factors here though because the files transferred are not raw data, they are compressed. How "compressable" the files are, can have a huge impact on the download weight. It is not unusual for barely noticeable tweaks to a model to more than double or halve the download weight. Even the exact syntax of the dae file matters here. Drongle once made some test where he could alter the LI simply by changing the order the polys were listed in the dae file. And since all mesh creation programs use different dae syntaxes, which application you use will affect the downlaod weight. Optimizing a model for compressability is again a bit of black art but there are some obvious techniques such as aligning vertices and polys along the axises whenever possible (on the UV map too btw - that's jsut as important).

If you have to cover every surface with those fake looking static baked shadows that are so fashionable these days, you definitely want to do it the way Kwakkelde suggested or you'll end up with astronomical render weights. A third alternative is to study some works of some of the real texturing masters and see how they manage to create low lag wonders using just a handful of relatively low resolution textures.

Make the physics model separately from simple cubes, and as Jorie and Drongle said, use the "Analyze" function and remeber to chaneg the pjhsyics type to prim after uploading.

polysail wrote: I'm not entirely certain what the logic for subdividing the basic prim was. They're "throw-away" vertices for the standardized LOD model system. With prims and sculpts LOD models are automatically generated by eliminating every fourth vertice for each level. polysail wrote: Mind you, you are correct about the prim being efficient over it's mesh cousin in other regards. It's download cost is lower as your viewer has a basic prim box cached at all times, so it doesn't have to go to the server and ask the server "hey how's this box made." In that fashion~prims are very efficient, there is minimal network cost for using them. That is right. Prims are indeed faster to render than even the most efficient mesh in Second Life. Nobody but nobody makes more efficient mesh for SL than me and I still notice they are slightly laggier than prim builds. The reason for that must be something that happens before the models are sent to the gpu but it's still a very real source of client side lag. It shouldn't be relevant for a virtual world made for mesh from the start though. polysail wrote: Why didn't LL add in an accounting system for worn mesh objects? Beats me!! HUGE goof in my opinion~ but that's water under the bridge. Seeing how they're now addressing the problem in SL ~ and listening to Ebbe talk about Sansar efficiency etc etc~ I'm confident they won't be making that mistake again. Ummm... exactly how are they "now addressing the problem in SL"? I still can't see any evidence of LL taking client side lag seriously in any way, quite the contrary. That silly Quick Graphics hack certainly does not count as a serious attempt to fix the problem and I don't know of anything else they've done about it.

Something like this: Poor location: Not sellable, not even giveawayable Generic mainland: 0.5-1 L$/m2 Special land: 2-5 L$/m2 Really special land: 10-15 L$/m2

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Overall I think total acquisition prices will be higher. Yes, I think we can take that for granted. Five other reasons: The risk. There is absolutely no guarantee you'll get anything at all in return for the time and money you spend on you work. It'll take a year or two before we can know for sure if Sansar succeeds and even if it does, it's hard to predict exactly what kind of products will sell there. No back catalog. Most merchant-creators who actually make a living in SL are old established ones with a catalog of items that have sold steadily over the years and still contribute to the bottom line. No such thing in Sansar - everybody start from scratch. Reduced customer base. Another important reason why some people actually manages to make an income from SL, is that they've built up a good and faithful customer base over the years. Some will follow to Sansar of course but not everybody. A very limited direct-to-end-user market for rezzables. There won't be many people shopping for houses or plants or even furniture in Sansar. It will mostly be ready-made themed housings with everything included. Edit: completely forgot the fifth reason!: No collectors' market. Gacha items and other collectibles make up an amazing large part of SL's economy right now. It'll take years before that becomes a factor at Sansar - if it ever does.

I'm afraid not. It's a fixed 50 m above ground level, not above zero elevation.

Bobbie Faulds wrote: What do you mean fail? Sorry, I can't find the JIRA number(s) right here and now. There is at least one known bug that causes fitted mesh to fail to load completely and from what I understood of the JIRA, it has nothing to do with LOD but some flag marking the item as fully loaded being triggered too early.

DartAgain wrote: If I paid little to nothing in land, and Sansar commission is 30%, my prices would be 25% higher in Sansar. If I was paying for a few sims and my "land"/hosting costs in Sansar is 1/3 of the price that I'm paying in SL, then I'd deduct 2/3s of my hosting cost from SL and add 25% commission difference. Hmmmm. My personal ballpark figure was actually something like 5-10 times SL prices, that is something closer to the general price level elsewhere. DartAgain wrote: ... so there's a chance that buying power will be far less in Sansar. Yes, I think that's a fairly safe bet for a large number of reasons, including the one you mentioned. DartAgain wrote: On the positive side, we might see many "Sansars" out there, since the development barrier to entry to build something like a Sansar is far easier than building something like SL. Good point. If Sansar show any kind of success it will inspire a myriad of copycats of course.

Sassy Romano wrote: Customer: "Wait, i've just looked and you're charging 30% more in Sansar in SL, you're a money grubbing thieving merchant, i'm never buying from you again!" Interesting. That is amazingly similar to the reaction LL will get from a large number of merchants when they discover that they are charging a higher comission in Sansar than in SL.

Perrie Juran wrote: LL claims that there are no plans to shutter SL but take that witha grain of salt. I take that literally. That is, LL isn't planning to or expecting to close down SL any time soon but they may change their minds and won't promise anything. Cathy Foil wrote: The second thing I keep hearing is Bento is somehow related to Sansar. This couldn't be father from the truth. Thank you Cathy! It's great to have that confirmed by somebody who actually knows! But it is fairly clear for anybody to see really. The recent SL projects - the new starter avatars, the new MOP, Quick Graphics, Bento - it is hard to see how any of them can possibly have any connection to Sansar. I'm beginning to feel there is a slight element of competition between the SL and Sansar development teams and that should be a good thing. There's little doubt that Linden Lab is still trying their best to maintain and develop Second Life. But in which direction is it developing? That's a quite interesting question and the answer is far from clear.

Persephone Emerald wrote: I love my Maitreya Lara body, but I don't wear it all the time. I second that! This may come as a shock to many people here: MESH BODIES ARE REMOVABLE! The mesh body is not your avatar, it's just an extra-fancy piece of clothing. You can wear when you want to and just take off when you want to or need to. It's amazing how many people haven't realized this. Persephone Emerald wrote: You get nicer feet, hands, bottom & breasts with a mesh body, but how important is this for you? Ummm, actually since you mention... hands. There is simply no way you can get anything resembling good looking hands on a classic avatar. LL got the proprotions wrong there right from the start and they never got around to fix the mistake. Same with feet really, although they can be covered with shoes of course. But in any case, you can use mesh hands and mesh feet with a classic avatar - no need for a complete mesh body to fix those blemishes.

Two questions to everybody but especially to those who may be considering or may have considered to sell their works in Sansar: What kind of price level should we expect there? And which factors will be relevant for determining price levels?

Bobbie Faulds wrote: Also, what is your LOD set on? The default is 2. You may need to raise it to 4. It is extremely unlikely that will help, and it is even possible it will make the situation worse. The LOD setting - or RenderVolumeLODFactor - determines how far an object has to be away from the camera before the lower LOD models switch in but all mesh bodies on the market are made to be so LOD resistant they never have any problems directly related to that. However, higher LOD settings do add a tremendous amount of extra load on your grapics card and can cause even close items to fail to load simply because the graphics card never have time to render them. I doubt that is the cause here but it may be worth trying to reduce the LOD settings to see if that helps. It may also be worth trying to reduce draw distance and graphics settings in general to ease the load. But no matter how you look at it, the general rule for mesh bodies is: Enjoy them in private but don't expect others to see them the way you see them! Fitted mesh is a serious strain on any graphics card so you have to expect a glitch every now and then. And there's also at least one bug that's never been explained nor fixed that causes fitted mesh bodies to fail randomly.

Excellent analysis by Vivienne Schell as usual. Vivienne Schell wrote: In fact, the technical progress made over the past five years did not really impress anyone, neither old nor new nor potential users, nor the media. It simply is not " felt" as being progress. Progress it may be but it's certainly not cutting edge technology in any way. And it's still hard to see any kind of long term strategy beyond the isolated update projects. Vivienne Schell wrote: Performance has not become decisively better (mainstream computers and LL servers still choke under the load) I'm away from home logging on with a laptop right now and that really drives home how thoroughly unsuitable SL is for the "average" computer user. For all the hype Second Life is not and has never been for the mainstream market and Linden Lab has never made a bona fide attempt to change that.

Perrie Juran wrote: In the immortal words of George Carlin, "Nail two things together that have never been nailed together before and some schmuck will buy it." Oh wait, have I just described Second Life? Only if the nails you use are long, red and made from fitted mesh.

Sassy Romano wrote: That'll be the upgrade price to v2 - "Rigged Sphere" Oh, I see. Better not take that idea too far though. Possible DMCA risk down the lane: http://dilbert.com/strip/2014-12-29

Sassy Romano wrote: Well I hope you're not going to feel that my mesh for mesh sake is appropriate here? There are just some things that you can't do properly with prims:- Lovely! But... aren't there a few zeros missing from the price tag there?