MaxTux Wonder

Quote: "For the umpteenth time now, if the traffic shaping is blocking only your high-poly models, while allowing your lower ones through, then quite obviously the high poly ones are a problem in this context." Yes high poly is the problem, how much poly is blocked by traffic shaping? How much polys i've to use to make it work right? Will work the same way with the all providers all over the world, or will solve just problems of few people? Those are questions that a really interested person in the topic should do. And those were informations that i pretend to get from this topic until you screwed it up. But you are not an interested person. Quote: "If you want them to get through, make them from less polygons. It's a very simple concept. If you weren't so ridiculously hellbent on insisting you're right and I'm wrong that you've abandoned all reason, you'd see that." How much smaller i've to do it to make it works? You think i should try to do 10 different versions of the avie each one with a different poly count? You know that a full avie take a month of hard work 8 hours at day? And if this fix will work only for me and not for other users? Will be my avatar of 9000 faces competitive with other furry prims/sculpties avies with 200k-400k tris (retorical)? Until i don't get more informations from users and from Lindens, i can't do nothing than wasting time and money. You of course don't have any idea of what it means to work on computer graphic. Should i follow suggestions from a builder wannabe, that doesn't even knows that 40k+ it's under average polycount for an avatar in SL? (an avatar with shoes and hair, of course)

Few, i will drop my attitude when you will admit that you wrote this: "you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh" you didn't know how to check how much triangles is your avie currently using. Today is a new day, but i've no intentions to bend in front of a troll that pretends to teach me how i should do my work. Your avatars have no shoes? great for you, you will have for sure a great polycount on your naked avie, but half secondlife is not naked, is wearing shoes, jacket, hairs, jewelery over a furry sculpted avatar. for more than 400 tris over them. As i demonstrated in the other topic i've asked you to follow. i will talk about network traffic when you will tell me that you are experiencing traffic shaping on your internet connection. This was the topic about. You are not experiencing traffic shaping? Go on the other topic i've made just for you to talk about heavyness of avatars, and don't bother here.

Quote: "There was no argument, until Max decided to turn it into one. Until that point, it was a perfectly healthy discussion." OH, CHECK IT OUT THE SECOND PAGE WERE YOU TELL: "you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh" when YOU probably wearing a couple of boots that costs 4 times my full body avatar. Or you go around without shoes, hair and prim clothes? hypocrite that's pretends to be a builder and doesn't know how much object faces an avie is carrying around! TROLL this is one of the standards sl avie you can pick up at the start of the game: the jacket is 14336 faces the left boot is 14336 faces the right boot is 14336 faces and the hair 10000 faces +7k for the avatar body but of course, you great experienced builder, you don't knew it. you can do math great builder? who is heavier, my mesh avatar or a standard sl avatar that you pick up at the start?

really? bud i didn't succeded! i will try again...

The wiki is wrong, i tried of course, do not work, the limit is 65k faces!

i got your sarcasm, but what you're saying is true. As a builder i've to compete with 200k - 400k faces furry avies as you can see in this topic i linked before: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312849 and with just 65k faces i can do a better avie. Of course if i do an hamster i can use only 10k faces: But if i want to compete with other bulky furries sellers, that use 200k - 400k faces for the avie, i've to use all the resources i've. And 65k is nothingh compared to 200k - 400k Of course you cant tell me how i should i work, but as i told in the topic, the only people that can actually tells me what should i do, is LL and my customers Happened something similar when i did a very high poly armor, and after asking to a Linden, he told me that was better to do a lower version, so i did. Of course every jira is directed to Lindens not to users, users have to add their own experiences about the jira report, not vilify (thanks to Few for the correction he did before, english is not my first language) the work of someone that is actually spotting an SL problem as Few did in this topic. And anyway, i tried to be polite, for 3 times. Chosen Few can be the best man on the world, i don't care, just i don't like who use tones of arrogance. I guess is a grown up if he works for the government, etc... and i can accept this type of attitude from a children, older people have to behave like growns up, and when you actually doing something like a bug report (that is not a chat) it's very bothering to see someone vilify your work. telling something like: "you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh" when probably is wearing a couple of boots that costs 4 times my full body avatar. A grown up would act with humble methods, and if someone like to play baby, i'm no more obbligated to be polite and i can just tell the truth. I don't know how works in America, but in Italy, an off topic is a serious issue. Anyway. Sure i can create a great avie with 9000 faces, an hamster, as i did. Or a standard SL avie with flat pecs, cube feet and hairs that looks like this: or i can just use more faces and do something more... you know... cool

I don't think i can do worse than boots for 229400 faces like i posted up. (greats boots anyway, love it) Anyway the limits are about triangles, you can't use 65k vertices on meshes, will just not upload.

Thank you for all moderators, i've waited 2 days after the first report. And still nobody came. Now i'm trying to explain to a troll that a totally legitimate mesh with an expected polycount, as totally legitimate video streaming and audio streaming do not work, under traffic shaping. And he tells to me how i've to do my work. AGAIN. HE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IS NOT A BUILDER FAULT IF THE STREAMING AUDIO-VIDEO-MESH DO NOT WORK, AND THAT I CAN'T DO CRAPPY AVIES JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IN ITALY WITH FASTWEB IS AFFECTED BY TRAFFIC SHAPING What is the polycount limit for a mesh: 65k Well, my next avie will be exactly 65k with an armor of 65k, and fur and hair of 65k You know why troll? Because even in this case my avie will cost less in rendering cost than other prims/sculpty avies, and will have less faces than similar avies (and i explained why in the other topic i linked to you), and will looks better, and will sell more of course. Now go to bother Tonktastic that made boots for 229400 faces:

Quote: "As I tried to explain to Max, poly counts are directly related to streaming costs." oh wow this is a very surprise for me! thank you great builder that you are for this great advice, maybe you didn't read all my replies, were i told to you : I HAD PROBLEMS BEFORE CHANGING ISP, WITH STREAMING VIDEO AND AUDIO TOO, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH BYTES YOU DOWNLOAD! IT'S ABOUT TRAFFIC SHAPING! YOU ARE BLIND? YOU CAN SEE THE PICTURES OF MY AVIES? I'VE CHANGED PROVIDER AND NOW IT WORKS - YOU NEED ANOTHER PICTURE? THE PROBLEM IS THE TRAFFIC SHAPING DONE ABOUT PROVIDERS, THAT CAN AFFECTS ANY TYPE OF STREAMING IN SL, AND THIS IS THE TOPIC ABOUT. AUDIO AND VIDEO TOO! READ IT AGAIN YOU TROLL, AUDIO AND VIDEO TOO! OR YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO BLAME ME ABOUT AUDIO AND VIDEO TOO? IS YOUR ISP DOING TRAFFIC SHAPING ON YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION? NO? WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT THEN? YOU WANT I DO AVATARS WITH 9000K FACES? YOU DO IT, DON'T BOTHER ME! I WORK FOR MY CUSTOMERS THAT WANTS THE BEST, NOT FOR YOU, WHO THE HELL YOU THINK YOU ARE TO TELL TO ME HOW I'VE TO DO MY WORK? Go to bother someone else! I thought a big piece in the graphic industry that actually is not working in second life, would not have so much time to bother people in the second life forum, go to work for the government, the university and the big companies, you telling you are working in! (yeah, with those renderings, and not even a link on a website) But probably a shameless troll doesn't need to be coherent.

As i thought! No links. You are just a liar. POST A LINK to your website, with your portfolio and your CONTACTS! AS I DID! i'm MASSIMO CIVITA AND THIS IS MY WEBSITE: WWW.HOKMAPH.NET WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT? YOU DON'T LIKE MY AVIES? DON'T BUY IT! YOU THINK I'VE TO WORK AS YOU SAY I SHOULD? WHO THE HELL YOU THINK YOU ARE TO GIVE ME ORDERS! (WITH THOSE RENDERINGS MADE IN 1993) YOU ARE NOT HELPING WITH STREAMING PROBLEMS, THIS IS THE TOPIC FOR! ( YOU DON'T EVEN POSTED YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER, YOU TROLL) YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT MY AVIES? YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT MESH FACES? LOOK AT THIS TOPIC I'VE OPENED JUST FOR A TROLL LIKE YOU: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312849

Quote: "I would say too that your way to measure the knowledge of a person by the things he do/talk/sell is a bit risky and yes, a bit arrogant." I would say that your way to measure the knowledge of a peson just on words and not on FACTS, it's just a bit stupid and yes, a bit nonsense. 9k faces, is the standard avatar on SL. I can repeat it again and again, maybe was not clear the first time i told this, but i really don't know how to make it clear. I used pictures, but probably is not enough. I try to post the picture again: No feet, no muscles, no details, is a very basic avie, and not what my customers are asking for. And i'm still wondering why people like you THAT ARE NOT MY CUSTOMERS are complaining about my work in this topic that it's supposed to help people about streaming! And... i toke a look on your profile and you don't have a store either: I guess you can bring your personal problems and unsatisfactions somewhere else instead of bothering someone that is actually trying to help people with streaming problems in this topic. I opened a different topic to talk about your personal unsatisfaction, but of course, arrogant people don't appreciate a nice favor. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312849 For just making you understand how much you don't know what you are talking about: Only the "left calf" on Tonktastic (great store) boots are 25 scuplties, (1024 vertices and 2048 tris faces) 25x2048=51200 is more than my entire avie, only the left calf, i repeat it becouse maybe it's not clear: ONLY ON THE LEFT CALF. But of course you thought well not to go to bother the Tonktastic creator becouse only his boots have 29 sculpty each feat and 25 each calf Yes you read right, only the single left foot is 59k tris faces. More than my entire avie. Yes a naked avie 9000 faces + 59000 left foot + 59000 right foot + 51200 left calf + 51200 right calf = 229400 faces A naked avie with very nice boots 229400 faces You thought it was better to annoy a mesh creator, that actually is trying to help people and to report bugs to make sl better.

Oh sure! how dumb i'm i? Quote: " My clientele includes video game companies, motion picture studios, television networks, media companies, government agencies, universities, corporations, small businesses, and occasionally, individuals." You work for Square Enix of course! Tell me can you link me your works or yours are just words? This is my blog with my works and my portofolio: www.hokmaph.net/blog Of course you work for for Square Enix, Universal, Government, University, corporations, small business, and you have time to come here into this forum just to critique my work... i'm amazed how much your time is worth! I'm totally trusting your words! how i couldn't? someone that doesn't knows that a SL avatar is 9000 faces, is for sure an expert! And... i see your open public profile on web: So... i don't understand, you work for Square Enix, Universal, Government, University, corporations, small business, and you have time to do "long term texturing/building work" in SL, and to come here on the forum just to critique my work. I'm totally buying it. Yes, sure. Tell me, i'm curious, how it's to live without shame? Quote:"you're welcome to your ignorant, closed-minded opinion." I'm ready to beg your pardon when i will look at your online portfolio, with your email, AS I HAVE on my website, were i will send a message and i will ask if the portofolio is from "Chosen Few a player of secondlife". You have more experience than me? Show me! i'm ready to kneel in front of your greatness! Becouse you know when someone is trolling on a forum giving "advices" and tell to other REAL builders how they should do their work, (even when REAL builders are trying to help Second Life to get better with bug reporting), IF this "someone" does not shows up HIS OWN work, is just a troll/liar/arrogant person. So what are you? A troll/liar/arrogant or are you a real 3D artist? Show to me with facts. Quote: "You really think having an in-world store in SL is the mark of a great modeler? Uh, OK, whatever, man." Show me your business, and all your great works, than come back, with facts, not with words. Quote: "99% of your customers don't know or care about how these things work. " Really? How dare you. Don't try to say a word about my customers! Who the hell you think you are? You really come here, offend my work, my customers without shame? I Was a Blender teacher for deaf people in italy: http://vimeo.com/12446536 http://www.hokmaph.net/Guida-a-Blender-2.5.html I Wrote and illustrated 2 books: http://www.hokmaph.net/apotheosis/ I made a Web-comic: http://www.hokmaph.net/carotino/ And now i'm doing (and i'm quoting) "One of the best avatars I've seen in my 3 years on SL" https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/67416 https://picasaweb.google.com/111473454595250596037/WolfDemigod11 https://picasaweb.google.com/111473454595250596037/TigerDemigod12 Tell me, who the hell are you? Over a forum troll i mean.

You can do what i do? curious i don't see your store on marketplace, either inworld... There is a big difference between talking and doing Quote: Why sculpties and prims are able to get past ISP's filtering, while a high-poly mesh might not? becouse are single objects. If i cut a big mesh in smaller objects, taffic shaping will not affects the streaming. And this is a real easy thing to understand. I try to explain it better video streaming will not work with traffic shaping audio streaming will not work with traffic shaping maybe this way is easier to understand. Quote:"No one's attempting to vilify you, or your work, Max. ("Vilificate" is not a word, by the way.)" Right, i guess you just want to tell me how i must to do my work. And it's really funny to hear that from someone that has not an inworld store. Arrogance comes with incompetence. Of course. i'm quoting here: "One of the best avatars I've seen in my 3 years on SL, and it is worth every L to get it!" this is one of the reviews of my avie on marketplace. Were you been in those 3 years? I mean... if it's that easy to do an avie like mine. Those are reviews to my products: Quote: " Amazing detail and perfectly linked to the skeleton, is very fine and does not make stranger to the animation." Quote:" This avatar is exquisite, magnificent, beautiful, masculine, and overall gorgeous. Not only is it seamless and rigged perfectly but the textures are high resolution. It works perfectly well with my AO." Quote: " A work like this can only be rewieved with five star this avi is absolutely fantastic greit job congratulations to the creator really^^" Quote: " buy now ! hurry up !!" Quote: " This avatar looks FREAKIN' AMAZING. Wish I could give it more than 5 stars! Thanks! ;3" Quote: " It looks epic, it is epic. The avatar, the armor, all is just so excellently crafted. I use it every now and then and always get compliments by it. Excellent job! :3" Quote: " This mesh Avatar is just awesome. It has superb quality body and armor (see the pictures!). It even fits with all kinds of animation sl offers (Sit or dance , do what you want this avatar matches perfectly). I have to say it is absolutely worth its price." Where are your reviews? What you think, i've to follow your "suggestions", or i've to follow my customers desires? mmm let me think... oh yes of course i will do a 9000 faces model, like the standard SL avatar just becouse of you... The new mesh era

Sorry maybe i wasn't exhaustive, i try explain it in another way: The problem i've described in the jira is about traffic shaping by my internet provider, so any stream, the music stream, the video stream and the mesh stream have problems. Of course i changed ISP, was easy for me. I've the knowledge to recognise a problem and to solve it myself, so the problem for me it's solved. But tomorrow will happen to you the same thing and with you all the people affected by traffic shaping. People that not necessarly will understand what's happening, and just will trash SL in a can My avies have a "avatar rendering cost" lower than a regular avie in SL please check it out in this topic: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312... Why? check how much faces a standard sl avies (without attachments) costs: 9000 faces for a base avatar with SL base hair (not prims) and base skirt. 7776 without SL hair and SL skirt Any sculpty you attach to your avie adds 1024 vertices to your avie so it's very easy to go over 100k faces on a standard SL avatar, what you need is just a couple of sculpy boots and fancy hair. Example of sculpty: But is something i've explained better in the other topic, i would very appreciate if you reply in the other one and leave this topic clean for people that actually have problems with traffic shaping. And if you wondering why my avie has more than 9000 faces (9000 faces is what a standard SL avatar has) this is why: Real feet, real muscles: bicipes, pecs, deltoids, not like a standard sl avie (with muscles painted on the texture), and yes it costs more, if you don't like it just don't buy it. But anyway his rendering cost is lower than other avatars in SL. I wondering why you don't go to Prims/sculpty builders to tell them that their avies are too much big in terms of polycount and rendering cost... (my mesh avatar on the right) I guess you are trying to vilificate my work for some reasons, but you can try better Anyway i think it's very sad to see someone vilificate a person that actually is trying to make SL better with costant bug reporting, but probably you have your reasons

i really appreciate all the interventions in my topic Anyway the topic here is about "streaming traffic shaping by internet providers" if you want to talk about "heavyness of avatars" please take a look on this new topic i've opened http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312849

As LL changed the render cost algorithm over to the render weight algorithm, which is scaled differently than the previous version. We can now compare the rendering cost of Mesh VS Prims/sculpty - who is better? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2584 To check the rendering cost of your avie go to: Menu advanced -> performance tools -> show draw weights for avatars My mesh avatar (the tiger) and a standard avie My avatar the tiger with full armor and a full clothed furry avie other prims/sculpy avies My wolf demigod avie in full armor VS other prims/sculpy avies My mesh bull avie VS other prims/sculpy avies why prims/sculpties are more heavy than meshes? for a simple reason, look at those pictures this is a prim cube: this is the same prim cube but in wireframe: as you can see a prim cube has at least 108 faces, "at least" becouse if you modify a prim cube and add an hole you get more faces: so actually in sl all prims building and avatar in SL have a surplus of not needed faces, for example a mesh cube has only 12 faces (triangles). Even if a mesh avie will have lots of faces will be anyway better than a prim/sculpty avatar, becouse the mesh topology is optimized. Something similar happens to sculpties, at maximum resolution, a 32x32 pixel Sculpt Map would describe up to 1024 vertices: so it's very easy to get a very big render cost on your avie (with prims and sculpties), what it needs is just a fancy couple of boots with many sculpts on it!

Great job Gaia, you deserve a mesh statue!

thank you very much for partecipating in this topic. Actually the other topic is for builders that want to list all the reported jiras issues for voting. This one is only about traffic shaping, but i really appreciate.

happened to me on rigged meshes, but dethaching doesn't help, don't know if is the same issue. if you have streaming problems in your internet connection, then you will have mesh streaming problems too! (until is not cached)

Problems with meshes in SL: 1 - When you unwear any mesh avie, if the joint points are different from your standard avie, you can get a shrink problem on your avie. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2402 workaround: relog. 2 - If you use "Lights and swadows" new feature, sometimes mesh will not shows up. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2779 workaround: change your graphic settings, try to check/uncheck "hardware skinning" feature. 3 - If your internet provider is applying "traffic shaping" on your internet connection, and you have problems with streaming, big meshes will not rez at all https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2810 workaround: play secondlife in hours when there is not traffic shaping on your internet connection. 4 - when you resize your avie very tall the feet do not touch the ground, i tried to work around this issue making a z offset of the avie, but do not works if the avie is very tall https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2403 workaround: do not make your avie too much tall Please builders add your reports to this topic so i can check and vote too...

Meshes are really slow to rez even if the data are still in cache (becouse rezzed before), and the highest lod (level of definition) does not rez at all. This problem is caused by traffic shaping by internet provider. If your provider apply traffic shaping on your internet connection (streaming traffic shaping), some meshes will not rez at the Highest LOD. Why? Depens on how big is the data streaming of the mesh + the limits of data streaming applyed by your provider in the traffic shaping. If the limit of data streaming is 200kbs and the mesh LOD is 201kb the mesh will not rez Vote on jira: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2810?focusedCommentId=303881#comment-303881

thank you all for reply to me, i'm voting to the old jira

In marketplace there is ofcourse the possibility to review an item. Can happens that a Alterego of a rival merchant buys your item just to review it negatively. Would be very handy to block someone from buy in marketplace and not to have him as customer! vote on jira: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4349

http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.com/2011/12/optional-phoenix-viewer-mesh-update.html it's time to raice prices of mesh stuff, lol

http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.com/2011/11/phoenix-firestorm-viewer-official.html Wow finally! :D