Andred Darwin
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Posts posted by Andred Darwin
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Yes, here we go again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NDqWT3zZs (big thanks to Pantera for posting those... its nice for the ones that would like to see but don't have time to go...)
The interesting thing is that they really believe it's fixed, seems like a total disconnect or maybe they are using a website we don't have access to... or the unthinkable, they really don't have a clue, cause even with this release being better than the last one ( it's somewhat better than the last one...), it's still well below what could be called common sense for search relevance, can it be called "improvement"? . (Here is a hint, from a user standpoint, v2.3 did much a better job than the so called new version implementation... where is the "improvement" from a user standpoint if you compare same search results from the old version with current version?)
Next meeting is on April 5th 2pm... (Jira's and support tickets clearly doesn't help for this specific case....)
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5 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:
I'm having problems when I select 'highlight transparent'
There's a Jira ticket about that issue, and seems like the fix will be released with Maintenance T viewer ( commit is on Maint T branch, https://github.com/secondlife/viewer/commit/da3002bd0c25cfe922db1e40e46e48de9201501f )... a quick workaround is to install the PBR project viewer, and login at least once, but be aware, your graphics settings will reset after login along with a few debug settings if changed any... (you can save your current settings as a preset and restore after....)
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I've seen it happen a few times, in a couple cases it was my mistake while editing the object, some faces (based on creators choice) supposed to use Alpha Blending and others Alpha Masking with mask cut off value above zero (or a mix of Alpha Masking cut off values), and accidentally, I had set all faces at once..
In other instances, the script that came with the object, was not setting the alpha mode (llsetprimitiveparamsfast) when changing the texture for the faces that need it... which in mixed objects, or objects created with drag copy, can cause that same issue ... ( for faces showing as solid instead of transparency, the fix is to either set alpha mode as Alpha Blending, or Alpha Masking with a mask cut off value above 0, usually 100 ..., to just rez a new one of course is easier... )
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4 hours ago, Signal Linden said:
update/copy/modify items, change outfits, give an object to another Resident, etc. Compare your results with the production grid (Agni)
I didn't notice anything while trying it out (transfers, mod/transfer only seems normal), but, with this new work, will something be done to prevent loss of inventory when trying to rez an item that is not copy, in a land that you cannot rez? (Happens by mistake, I guess quite a lot... just happened to me at Morris, I was on a small parcel owned by Dan Linden, and accidentally tried to rez an item with an alternate avatar.... dropped outside the parcel (where rez is not enabled)... and its gone... item name "Mod Only") . Ideally, that should at least return to Lost & Found or the viewer prevent the user from rezzing.
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My 2 cents, I would not spend any money in that machine, instead save for a future full upgrade, having said that, I used a very similar machine in the past ( i7 920 + DX58SO + 12gb + 650ti ) and was awesome, great setup, rock solid, used for many years, that CPU (i7 920) was one of the best "overclockable" CPU's I ever had, I really liked that machine (I'm sure you do too)... even after I upgraded to a new machine, I spent a few bucks on cpu i7-980x (6 cores, 12 threads), and GPU to a GTX 780 (found a nice deal locally at the time), a nice upgrade ... these parts are really cheap today, but I'm not sure if its worth spending money on it, things are much different today... in summary, I guess its a great machine to keep for as long as it works (try Linux on it... will continue to do a great job for a long time ), but any money you spend on it, will not really bring it any closer to 2023 specs, something will always bottleneck it hard... and software industry today, ie:Microsoft/Apple/Intel/AMD/NVidia, etc, is also working really hard to make sure our older hardware becomes obsolete as fast as possible, frustrating.... )
Edit: Looking on Ebay, a i7-980x goes for around $50 bucks, a GTX 780 for another $50, or a GTX 970 for about $60, you would need to upgrade the CPU to try to keep up with a 780 or 970 (you may need a new power supply too)... I still think the $100 bucks will better serve you if saved towards a newer system, not to count, there's a risk on getting used parts...
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11 hours ago, Judas Shuffle said:
With all Firestorms 's graphics maxed out im getting a blistering 12.5 fps in the same location.
I guess you are running at 4k resolution correct?
I have one machine with the same i7 6700K, GTX 1080, 32gb memory (LOD set to 4.0, everything else also maxed out in settings), using one 144hz monitor at 1080p ( 1920x1080 ), with DD at 256sqm I'm getting 56 fps, very similar position/view as your screenshot, at Nymphai, with DD at 128sqm I get the same fps (area is in the sky...), these measured using the current official viewer, also worth nothing, with the official viewer, once you open any UI window, fps goes down a bit, average of 10 fps to 15 fps observed using Firestorm, and assuming the same would happen using the official viewer (the official viewer cannot show FPS without Ctrl + Shift +1 open).
With Firestorm I get very similar readings when opening the Ctrl + Shift + 1 window... feels "smoother" due to VRAM usage, less texture blurring... (The PBR viewer has a tweak for VRAM usage, similar to current Firestorm).
Using another machine, 11700K + RTX 3060 + 64gb memory (tri-monitor 1080p each), that same area shows 110 fps with DD at 128sqm and 105 fps with DD at 256sqm.
If you have a dedicated 3D graphics card but less than a 3060 series or equivalent AMD graphics card ( which are advertised as 4K graphics card ) try to keep the resolution at 1080p or lower (To me, the 6700K machine is still very smooth even at Nymphai using 1080p, even though the 6700K is not enough to run a GTX 1080... a balanced machine also helps and may save money).
No extra tweaking on both machines either, NVIDIA 527.37 driver, plain installation of official viewer + max settings + debug setting RenderVolumeLODFactor set to 4.0.
My 2 cents, for SL... desktop with a recent processor i7 or fast i5 with a RTX 3060 or above (or AMD equivalent) running with a 1080p monitor (Full HD 1920x1080), very smooth, great experience, without breaking the bank "too much", without "losing hair". ( Blue team being recent Intel i7 plus recent NVidia at 1080p is hard to beat for SL)
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13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:
Surely, this is very dark majick!
I would not say there is anything dark on it, every company wants to have some control of search and manipulate it towards goals, etc..., LL would not be unique if they do... "desk" professionals sometimes need to "prove" they are doing something, or at least have something to say... in many cases, that's where the "train derail" (many ideas, bunch of distractions, no results! ie: voodoos!).
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6 hours ago, Yoofaloof Pacer said:
Surely it must be hitting the big players in their pockets hard.
Funny, just got another "tweet" hehehe ... even at the "you know which" website, seems like one the areas is now "hiding" the brackets... but the data still seems to be coming through socket....
[
{
"bracket": 1700000,
"count": 1
},
{
"bracket": 1350000,
"count": 1
},
{
"bracket": 1250000,
"count": 1
},
{
"bracket": 1200000,
"count": 1
},
{
"bracket": 1000000,
"count": 1
}]
The said top brackets were above 2,000,000 in that guessed sample! (Still awesome for whoever is there!)
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20 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:
That totally depends on the implementation!
If were to buy and use some specialized software for the purpose, the implementation would be "proprietary" - they won't tell you how it works. In fact, once upon a time you'd have to buy /rent/lease an "appliance" from them that did the work.
If you had to "roll your own" and did the bare minimum - just search description for words, you could use "LIKE" in your queries. Very inefficient.
But, since the MarketPlace uses everything from Keywords, Relevance, and - as you say, "word salad" with NO way to select "which way to search" (LOOKY HERE, MAYBE THAT WAS A BAD DESIGN CHOICE!!) - it is probably a huge, nasty mess. Search all the words + keywords + try to prioritize relevance + add the user's "AND NOT", etc. Yuck.
Anyway - Proper indexing is.."key". (Ironically.)
Back in the old SQL days, you could "force" an index by supplying "index hints" in your query - tell it which index it uses.
These days, I believe techies are moving more towards things like "NOSQL" which ain't SQL atall. So, that will / would work differently.
If *I* had to do it - with my own level of SQL skills:
- I'd add "let the user select prioritization of relevancy vs. word salad, etc.
- I'd index words vs. keyword spam and let the user choose whether to search one, the other, or both
- Based on these criteria, the search engine would know "which way" to search, then prioritize the answers not just based on the results, but based on what the user wanted.
The draw back of "doing MP search well" - if LL ever "does it well" some day in the future is: Those keyword-spam and irrelevant items will get less hits, less sales. Boo-hoo for them!
I hope you enjoyed my answer/non-answer!
But to answer your ACTUAL question, "[converting] word salad into a searchable index" depends on the database implementation. Some can just "search the data" based on the database implementation. For others (old school), you'd have to split words into separate indexes. That gives you an option to ignore "garbage" words (a, an, the, like, etc.).
But I digress.
And no, I ain't a Tigress.
Not related to the thread topic at all... but for small databases, you will get much better results using functions like "metaphone" in PHP as an example (I mean an equivalent on whatever programming language you are using...)... then run queries MATCH AGAINST, on sub queries (MySQL).... simple, easy, fast and "relevant" by default.... of course, your mileage will vary... but on a well built database, smart indexed (category, total sales, views, views and sales.... this using SL as a context, but, using indexes relevant to your application....), and depending on the case with partitions works like a charm without "voodoos"....
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10 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:
How much fuss can you kick up. It states on the status page they are working on it. What more do you want?
His point is probably about what quite a few people is thinking and questioning right now. "How come something like this is released? Cannot find my items at the Marketplace.".
Even in-world I got a few messages from others that saw the posts (and comments are not very nice either...) ... maybe doesn't matter to you and may not change a thing you do when enjoying SL, but for others it might....
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7 hours ago, Skyler Pancake said:
Uhg. Please no. This amounts to harassment.
Who is harassing who?
The only possible harassment I can see is management against its own product. I'm not saying or encouraging anyone to open a ticket either, it's already at the status page, a million tickets won't help at all. All we can do is wait, and take it as it is, apparently is not that of a big deal for them, it was "released", quietly (botched or not, it's still there)... they didn't feel it would be good to give any sort of heads up... still no announcement other than a late vague status page notice, and canned answers at support tickets, JIRA... it's just SL being SL, showing that some things will never change even with new ownership.
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I try to do only thing a user can do, open a support ticket, open a JIRA... support ticket recommended to open a JIRA to see "public" responses, JIRA closes tickets as duplicate, referring to a ticket we don't have access to see, at the very least is now posted in the status page. Unfortunately, I think its just another example where they are doing exactly as they "promised", the "best they can do" ( ie.: capable of ) . Well... hang in there... let's hope for the best! lol
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5 hours ago, Andred Darwin said:
A very random search term: Blue Shirt
Only 5 items in the first page are actually a shirt, none of them are blue... a bunch of female hair is shown (none are blue either), and a bunch of items that have nothing to do with it... how does that help? hehehehe
Doesn't make any sense... thank Lord they didn't want to release it, until they were sure they would get it right, as they said on a recent video and meetings! Imagine what would it be if they didn't even look at it!
Also, now all searches are capped to 10000 results, ok.... who would look over 10000 results... at the same time, 10000 results where the majority don't even relate to the search terms! Relevance?
Funny... do that same search at google.com using search term (or any term you want...)
blue shirt site:marketplace.secondlife.com
That is relevance, and no quotes! (I had to quote myself on this one...)
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5 hours ago, Arwen Serpente said:
Excellent! Thank you for posting that link. Voted/watching it. I had just responded to my support ticket (to Dakota Linden) with the same sentiment/message. I hope the Lab will acknowledge that this change is going to kill sales (if it hasn't started already).
I'm also adding as many examples as I can to the support ticket, Dakota did a great job trying to explain how it "works", it all makes sense... the only problem is that doesn't really work how it's described.
At least right now, search does not take in consideration any exact match of the search terms, it's a just a full basket (10000 items) of items that may remotely match the search... based on whatever voodoo algorithm ( from personal experience, the more you try to tweak search, more you screw it! ).
Example:
A very random search term: Blue Shirt
Only 5 items in the first page are actually a shirt, none of them are blue... a bunch of female hair is shown (none are blue either), and a bunch of items that have nothing to do with it... how does that help? hehehehe
Doesn't make any sense... thank Lord they didn't want to release it, until they were sure they would get it right, as they said on a recent video and meetings! Imagine what would it be if they didn't even look at it!
Also, now all searches are capped to 10000 results, ok.... who would look over 10000 results... at the same time, 10000 results where the majority don't even relate to the search terms! Relevance?
Also, seems like items you add as Paid Subscription (Categories or Main Page) seem to be penalized by the search engine... views with no sales! Go figure!!! (Look at your own store, select Best Selling, see if match at all with your report Top Selling Items.... and then check the position of any item you have as a paid ad/subscription )
A search result without exact matches showing first is useless... require the use of quotes is extremely odd just to get some "relevance".
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Well, I really appreciate of all the improvements the past year to the game/system as a whole, its way better, looks better... but this Web team in SL... I can tell you... its quite something...
The list keeps growing: my.secondlife.com, places.secondlife.com, account page and limited transactions history, in-world search, privacy settings that don't sync with in-world ( or maybe we just don't know how to use it ).... now the marketplace too?
It's probably the only team that didn't show any meaningful improvement ( at least noticeable from a user standpoint, a colorful land page? ) after the new ownership unlike the Server/Viewer teams, in fact, compared to the time before the new ownership, the Server and Viewer teams are just "Fast and Furious". Which is great! Would be nice to see the Web team producing meaningful results too, could we at least focus on Fix and not messing up?
In-world search at least looks better, but to the extent that people (or I) would use it... or any improved relevance to the results in general compared to what it used to be, the only ones that tell me in-world search is better, more relevant or accurate is the Web team itself when telling me to search for Maitreya store... not one friend or acquaintance ever tells me is better now or even know how to use it.
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Thanks to a couple acquaintances of mine in-world and out of the grid for some bits and pieces of info. (Opening a support ticket, you will get you just the same canned answers as usual, even though hopefully they will work on your case)
Seems like... this is the new so called "new search engine" talked about in the Web Group for ages....
The only way to search for something and find it in the marketplace is by using quotes, even then, you "may" find it if you use exact words... also seems like "Relevance" as we learned in school, and described in the dictionary is gone.... it simply doesn't work as of now... search is useless without quotes.
To me, I guess, try something and have to tweak, it's fine and probably part of the process ( Not that a company that has been around for almost 20 years trying to do the same thing over and over again, probably should have learned a thing or two already... ).
The part that is puzzling to understand, why not give a simple heads up, either as a blog, email or at the status page... instead just throw it out there... hide behind the wall and leave everyone wondering? A simple "Hey guys we are toying with the marketplace over the next few weeks, please expect issues such as.....".
A chunk of users had the same issue with listings at the marketplace last week (merchant site), as some are going through as of yesterday including me, I'm sure there are more, they just didn't notice yet and there will probably be more over the next few days/weeks....
To the web team, we are better than that!
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13 minutes ago, Arwen Serpente said:
Yup, it started maybe an hour and half ago - I filed a ticket. No response yet and nothing on the grid status yet.
Thank you... I posted again at the post to the Technology sub-forum
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Anybody else seeing several issues with the Marketplace right now? (Feb 14th, 2pm SL Time)
- Items not showing on search, in fact, search is broken right now.
- Indexing / sort (Relevance) showing completely out of order compared to normal.
- Marketplace now showing 10000 items as found (Instead of the usual 7 million something)Several other issues within the listings management screen...
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16 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:
So, it has no actual function, it's just for browsing instead of waiting for profiles to load. Some people think it has a function, such as getting a divorce. I will have to admit my profile loads slowly inworld for me, while other's profiles do not. Profiles load fast for me inworld, but not my own.lol
Yes, seems slow sometimes, but not too bad for me, as of function, I use it just to give a bit more info about me (avatar) in the game, in fact, I think I use most of the tools available, even places.secondlife.com, which I also really like as a feature and option ( easy to find items that are set to show on search, option to add pictures about the land, better description, more eye pleasing layout than the viewer UI, etc ), but it never really took off, that needed to be linked to the avatar profile to become relevant (My Places section?) ... sincerely, if used, could provide a better way to find interesting places...
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4 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:
I am confused as to what that mysecondlife.com website is even for. This is all I know, at one time we could put up a free picture there and not have to spend the 10 lindens for a upload into the world. But, I have a question, is that mysecondlife.com there because that is the place we get partnered (married) as well as divorced if we want too? You have to pay money to get divorced my friend said and it's on mysecondlife.com. Is this correct info?
It's the web version of your profile... aside from being a bit slow to load in-world, it's a nice option to have, quite a few people use it to share snapshots, incoming links from web, etc... but you are right, some don't even know it is an option, same as places.secondlife.com....
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12 minutes ago, Juan Marques said:
when i use the search without being logged in, i exactly get to see what i choose in my.secondlife: nothing except name, rezzday... and payment info ( as we already heared in the other thread .. is public)
Thank you for sharing it, I could not try my profile, cause everything is set to Everyone (except post on feed)... I tried your profile on search, without being logged in, the only thing not matching your settings is that part of your "About" section is displayed in search.... and you have it set to "Second Life". Seems like the control options are right there and makes sense, LL would need to clarify them or just make them work.... maybe sync in-world profiles with my.secondlife.com settings.....
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6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:
The problem -- if it is a problem; YYMV -- is that 1) SL web search is avalaible to literally anyone, and any web site can link to it, and 2) because it is LL's site, there us no way to "opt out" anyone from it.
I am not sure of the actual utility of making the search openly available to anyone online, but if they are going to do so, LL should reduce the amount of info visible without logging in.
When profile is set to not show in search (Viewer preferences), it does not show on at search.secondlife.com either logged in or logged out, I checked just now... that account was set that way before... (I'm not sure if there is a delay to see changes....)
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Marketplace issues (Feb 14 around 2pm SL time)
in Second Life Web
Posted
https://www.couchbase.com/blog/fuzzy-matching/