Re: No Workaround For "Removed Under Marketplace Guidelines"???

[Czari Zenovka]

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Random Sixpence wrote:

On top of that it is against TOS to delist and the list an item again.

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This very issue is my No. 1 concern as I may not be able to utilize the DD system before the cut-off date for Magic Boxes due to an older PC and a financial situation that negates purchasing a new PC immediately.  So, I submitted a ticket.  I did get a prompt response, but one that was entirely useless.  The question I clearly asked in my ticket was what will the status of my products on the MP be considered if I cannot make the transition before Magic Boxes are broken?  I will not voluntarily delist them due to the above TOS.  Will they just poof and then will I be able to relist them when able since I did not voluntarily delist them.

After a paragraph that explained the DD system with a link to how to transition, the response ended with:

"I am not sure if magic box items will be unlisted or just won't work after the 2 month deadline. For now there is a migration process in place to easily move MB items to DD.  I apologize for any inconvenience you have encountered. Thank you for your patience and understanding."

To recap, someone on the LL support team "is not sure if magic box items will be unlisted or just won't work, etc."  I would think that should have been already thought through before launching the new system.  The ticket was closed and promptly re-opened by me saying in a nutshell that if that person "is not sure" of the answer then I respectfully request my question to be sent to someone who can answer it.  Haven't received a response from that one yet.

Iirc, the TOS on not being able to delist then relist an item mentioned something about the "identical" item, implying that an item that has been updated in some way would be acceptable.  I was in the process of updating many of my items prior to the DD announcement so I would assume that *if* my items are considered "delisted" (by LL, again I will not delist them) then relisting them in their updated versions would be ok.  I realize this may not be pertinent to other situations, but it's the route I plan to take, in case.

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

I think the policy refers to the practice of delisting and relisting in a short period of time (i.e cycling them in the matter of minutes, hours, days) - I believe this was done regarding pricing, bettering search, dealing with ratings in the past - but I cant remember why.  The TOS was not intended for those that were re-listing over longer cycles or because of a purpose caused by LL.

I have delisted products and then subsequently relisted them later for a few reasons..... 1) the product was seasonal and I didnt want it in my store out-of-season - i.e. valentine specific gifts, and  2) the product was the target of abuse on forums and it was delisted to shelter it from abuse.

In both circumstances - after a period of time they were re-listed.  In fact, as part of my migration from MagicBox to DD, I relisted several of my old items that I had delisted a while ago.  The good thing about using these old de-listed items was that if anything went wrong with the migration from MB to DD I would not shed any tears.  They all migrated and re-listed with no problems.

But you are correct in demanding that LL answer these kind of questions.  that is pretty sad that LL Support answers you with a  "I DONT KNOW - SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE" response and then closes the ticket.  That is sad !  I cant believe the LL support person didnt have enough of a brain or effort to go confirm the answer.  They didnt even think how stupid a support response is of "i dont know"??

It still ticks me off how LL Sr Management is ramming this SHUT DOWN MAGICBOX ASAP policy on all of us when there is no good reason for it, LL intended to dual support this all along, and that they dont even have answers and a complete solution with DD before they force a short deadline.

WHY???

[Czari Zenovka]

Okkkaaayyyyy, this is weird.  I was in the middle of replying to you, Toysoldier, and got a message that the post to which I was replying didn't exist!  I went back to the main page and found it moved with me as the OP.  Anyway, I'll start again....

Hi, Toysoldier - and thank you so much for your response.    The delisting policy as you outlined it  makes sense.   After reading that long ago, and I admit to not checking it out recently, I was always hesitant to delist anything.  For seasonal items I made them inactive, but I am glad to know you have delisted/relisted items successfully.

Since my last post on this topic I did receive another response from LL - from Dakota Linden.  For anyone who may also be concerned about this issue, his response was as follows:

"As long as you do not delete the existing listings, once you are able to upload the products to the Marketplace using the Merchant Outbox/Direct Delivery you will be able to associate the existing listings to the Direct Delivery uploads of the items."

I too wonder what the rush is for this transition.  At least I did get an answer from LL, well, Dakota.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

I finished 4,500+ items to DD. But I will say here once more what ticked me off besides the slowness of the web site, which is inexcusable if good planning were done.

The May 18th deadline. Passover is in 12 days and it lasts for 8 days. Many people, such as moi, do not have time before Passover or during the holiday and for a couple of days afterwards to fool with SL. That lops off at least 2-3 weeks. It would help if someone in LL looked at a frigging calendar and figured out that major religious holidays in any religion cause some delays. Then it would be nice to see a "realistic" cut-off date not one that was rammed down. 

March 21-May 18 after a year in development is simply put - stupid. And shows an incredible disregard for customers, which in this case are the merchants on the MP.

Stupid and messed up. That is all I will say.

[Czari Zenovka]

Agreed!  And I didn't even factor in Passover/Easter with Good Friday & Palm Sunday - some churches have services each night between Palm Sunday & Easter.  Yes, timing was definitely WAY off.

[Darrius Gothly]

Czari, just to clarify the ToS admonition against relisting items that have been delisted.

When you create a new Product Listing on SLM, it is assigned a unique number. That number is part of the URL of the Product's listing page. If you Unlist (using the Actions menu) then later mark it Active (again using the Actions menu) then it is still the same listing ... and it still has the same Product ID and URL.

However if you create a NEW Listing with the same product then its Product ID number changes and so does its URL.

It was a practice of some particularly nasty scum types on the old SL Exchange to remove a product's listing then create a new one just so they could lose all the negative comments and reviews the product had gotten. Famous examples include people that were selling boxes of stuff for amazingly cheap prices, only to find out they were all Freebies from other people or stolen content. Once it was discovered and the product was blasted for it in the comments, the person would just delete that listing, put the same box under a different listing .. and go right on scamming people.

Unlisting is something Merchants routinely do for things like Seasonal Items, items with problems such as broken parts or whatever, and many other reasons. Relisting them after a period of being inactive (or Unlisted) is not against ToS or the Community Guidelines.

[Marcus Hancroft]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Czari, just to clarify the ToS admonition against relisting items that have been delisted.

When you create a new Product Listing on SLM, it is assigned a unique number. That number is part of the URL of the Product's listing page. If you Unlist (using the Actions menu) then later mark it Active (again using the Actions menu) then it is still the same listing ... and it still has the same Product ID and URL.

However if you create a NEW Listing with the same product then its Product ID number changes and so does its URL.

It was a practice of some particularly nasty scum types on the old SL Exchange to remove a product's listing then create a new one just so they could lose all the negative comments and reviews the product had gotten. Famous examples include people that were selling boxes of stuff for amazingly cheap prices, only to find out they were all Freebies from other people or stolen content. Once it was discovered and the product was blasted for it in the comments, the person would just delete that listing, put the same box under a different listing .. and go right on scamming people.

Unlisting is something Merchants routinely do for things like Seasonal Items, items with problems such as broken parts or whatever, and many other reasons. Relisting them after a period of being inactive (or Unlisted) is not against ToS or the Community Guidelines.

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And that right ^ there is THE best explination of this I have EVER read on the forums.  Great job, Darrius!

[Czari Zenovka]

I agree with Marcus re: your post, Darrius and thank you for that explanation.  Geez...never even thought of people abusing it like that.  When I initially read the TOS on delisting, I was scared to delist anything,  even to make some improvements to it since I obviously didn't grasp the intent.  Then I feel like I read, although it was a long time ago, that an object *could* be updated and relisted so then I felt safer in doing that...lol.

 

 

[Darrius Gothly]

You're welcome Czari. Glad I could help set the proper understanding for you.

@Marcus - *blush* Thank you.