cant upload texture

[kaiden Emerald]

hi. ive been trying to upload a couple of custom textures that i made to see if i could upload my own textures. i run a mac, and i use gimp. my problem is, when try to upload it, it says that it wont work. ive made the files .tga files, but one thing im not sure of is how to check how many bits it is. im using these textures for building stuff, by the way. im not creating clothing or tattoos. so, any help would be appreciated. thanks.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

It's not the bits (or bytes) that are important for the textures you upload to SL.  Aside from image formats there only two requirements.  The first being the size must be at powers of 2 along both vertical and horizontal dimensions.  The second being the maximum size that can be uploaded is 1024 by 1024.  If you don't know the powers of 2 that the SL software requires they are:  1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, and 1024 (that's measured in pixels).  But even if you upload a texture that does not meet that size requirement you can still upload it...........the SL software will resize it for you (very poorly, by the way.  I don't recommend you uploading any texture that way).

 

I know nothing about Macs so I'm clueless why you might be getting that error.  I do know, as long as your texture is saved to one of the accepted image formats it should work.........TGA is an accepted format (in fact it's the preferred format for most texture creators).

[Keli Kyrie]

png is a much better file format than .tga

The file size is much smaller than .tga and the alpha channel is built in so no need to create an alpha layer. Also I would follow Peggy's advise about the size of the picture area.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I disagree that PNG is a better format.  Yes it is easier to get your alpha channel without creating it (actually I almost never "create" an alpha channel in my textures.......but that's a different discussion.).  The problem often revolves around that "ease" of using alpha channels in the PNG format..........it's much too easy to upload textures containing the alpha channel by accident than it is with the other formats.  The alpha sorting glitch is one such problem and I think PNG's contribute more than their fair share to the problem.

 

But, each to their own.

[Shelby Silverspar]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I disagree that PNG is a better format. ...it's much too easy to upload textures containing the alpha channel by accident ...

 

But, each to their own.

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I have to disagree, how do you get an alpha channel "by accident?"

PNG files are smaller, for some things tga is a better technical choice, but for the majority of people the easier to create png file is just fine.

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Shelby Silverspar wrote:

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I disagree that PNG is a better format. ...it's much too easy to upload textures containing the alpha channel by accident ...

 

But, each to their own.

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I have to disagree, how do you get an alpha channel "by accident?"

PNG files are smaller, for some things tga is a better technical choice, but for the majority of people the easier to create png file is just fine.

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PNG always has 4 channels, a red, a green, a blue and an alpha channel. Even when you use a picture that has no transparency at all, the png file still includes the alpha channel when you upload it to SL.

With TGA you can choose to upload as 24 bits file (just the red, green and blue channel) or a 32 bits file (r,g,b and alpha channel).

For textures without any transparency I prefer tga 24 bits. That is because of this known 'alpha bug'. When two prims with textures that have both an alpha layer meet each other, graphic cards don't know which of the two to show first. Then you get this effect of two prims fighting to be seen first. You can advoid this at least for texture who don't need an alpha channel at all, by using tga 24 bits for uploads without any transparency.

No matter which file format you upload, in the end SL will convert both tga en png to a JPEG2000 file.



 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Let me give an example of how easy it is to upload a texture containing an alpha channel by mistake using the PNG format.  Well, maybe not an example but a common question in all the texturing forums since I've been using SL (repeatedly asked in every forum format that LL has provided for us).  I'm sure most (if not all of us) have seen the problem where textures appear to "jump" back and forth when viewed from certain angles.  The problem that Madeliefste mentioned (it's not something new to digital graphics and even has a "name"........Alpha sorting glitch).  The problem occurs when two or more graphics are in line with each other when viewed......the nature of graphics rendering (and how graphics cards handle what we see) causes the graphics that contain alpha channels to be rendered slightly different than graphics that do not contain that channel.  At specific angles the card will show one texture first and it will appear in front, then move your viewing angle a little and the card will show the other texture first (or in front)........they swap back and forth.  There's very little anyone can do to prevent the problem for happening except to take care to not place textures containing an alpha channel is such ways where they can be viewed at those angles that cause the swapping back and forth (video card manufacturers have improved the rendering of alpha channels over the years, but it's still something that is not solved).  The easiest way to prevent the problem is to not use textures containing alpha channels.  That's impractical because textures with transparency have a very useful purpose in any graphic environment.  However, if you take care to use your textures with alpha channels only when necessary and know what is going to happen if you view them at specific angles you can miniumize the problem.  And, unless you know what textures have an alpha channel and what textures do not then that is impossible to do.

 

The reason is easier to "accidently" upload a PNG texture with an alpha channel than for TGA is exactly what Madeliefste said...........the alpha channel is present by default.  That means you must remove it before you save the file that you intend to upload to SL.  The very fact that you said it's easier because you don't have to add an alpha channel when using PNG's is why it's so easy to "accidently" include it in your texture (maybe "accidently" is not the right word..........try "unintentionally" instead).  To be fair you can also include an alpha channel in TGA's too.........but since you had to take the step to add one (you'd do that only if you needed it for such things as transparency) it's more likely that you know the alpha channel is present........and you'd be less likely to use that texture thinking it had no alpha channel.

 

And as a side.  What Madeliefste said about 24 bit textures and 32 bit textures is important.  24 bit textures are for textures that require no alpha channel (such as transparency) and 32 bit textures are for texture that require an alpha channel (such as transparency).  The 24 bit vs 32 bit is not an indication of quality.  A 32 bit texture has no more colors or no more quality than a 24 bit texture..........the extra 8 bits are there for the sole purpose to define the parts of the texture that require an alpha channel.  Nothing more, nothing else.  Use 32 bit textures only when necessary and 24 bit for everything else.  That will help to miniumize the alpha sorting glitch.

 

I don't think it's my imagination that since LL introduced the use of PNG's the alpha sorting glitch has been much more prevailant.  It's always been a problem but it's worse since then.  I think it's the "accidental" (or unintentional) use of 32 bit textures when 24 bit textures are the proper texture to use.  I'm not bashing the use of PNG's............I just don't agree they are better.  And because of that I recommend TGA's.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

You're probably more on track with the problem than most of this discussion so far (including my posts).  However, the derail is important for anyone wanting to create textures for SL.  From the original post (and, so far, the only post by the OP) was, not only confusing, indicating to me that the person asking the question did not understand image format, color depth, image size in pixels, and from that I deduced the poster was a novice (or inexperienced........and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.  I was just as lost as the poster when I first started trying to make textures for SL).  It was through discussions on the old Texturing Forums that I learned a great deal.......mostly from reading the more experienced answering others questions but also from that sparking my interest enough to do my own "research".  And, in almost every case the thread had been derailed from the original question is some way.........but very much related to the problem or question the person asking had.  I think this thread is pretty much the same way.

 

I have a suggestion for anyone starting out with textures for SL.........go back to the beginning and learn what every other beginner learned to become a good texture artist in SL.

 

http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/109/e6/150360/1.html

 

In my opinion the best place to start for texture specific to SL.  You absolutely have to know the basics before you can do much of anything.  The basics are layers, channels (and the very real difference in the two), color bit depth, image formats, and texture size in pixels.  If you don't know those basics, you'll never learn to do much of anything useful for textures to be used in SL.  If you can do anything, it's either luck or it's wrong and will not enhance your experience or anyone else's experience in SL.  Poorly created textures are one of the major sources of the lag everyone complains about.  I'm against cutting off discussions like this one just because it gets a little bit derailed.........it's still very relavant to the problem the poster is having.

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

That's where the problem lies.  A 24 bit targa formated image should not throw that error.  No matter what your operating system is.  Bits when you are referring to color depth you are defining the colors that bit depth will present.......it's not quite the same as bits when speaking of data files.  That's my whole point.....as texture creators we need to understand what it is we are talking about.  In images bit depth tells you how many colors that depth will show.........8 bits shows only black and white and all shades between.  !6 bits shows "indexed colors" (GIF, for example), 24 bits shows 16,000,000 colors (SL supports that), and 32 bits shows that 16,000,000 colors that 24 bit does with an extra 8 bits to define transparency (SL supports that).  It's not a preference of one format over any other.........it's the ease in which mistakenly including that 8 extra bits when you don't intend to enclude it.  And PNG's are so much easier to make that mistake with.........unless you understand what you are working with (then it's just like any other format).  Someone said PNG's are better because you don't have to add an alpha channel.........and that is exactly why I made my comment.  It's easier if you want an alpha channel (or need one).........it's something else if you don't.  You have to intentionally exclude the alpha channel when saving and there's no dialog to ask you if you want to include or exclude that channel (TGA you get that dialog in GIMP).  If you know what you are doing, it's absolutely no problem what so ever.......if you don't then it's hit or miss.

 

That's all I'm saying.......nothing more,  I'm not trying to argue but trying to clarify something I don't think you understand.  When I read your comment about greyscale I thought "that's probably the problem".  SL does not support greyscale images.  All images must be 24 bit color depth or 32 bit color depth.  If you want to use a black and white texture, you can.....it just has to be saved as RGB or RGBA.  Same with indexed images.  It's basic stuff and very important that people who want to make textures for SL should know.

[Shelby Silverspar]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:SL does not support greyscale images. 

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What do you mean by this? I use grayscale jpgs often.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Grayscale images are 8 bit color depth.  SL does not support that and it will not be uploaded and you'll most likely get an error message.  You can upload a black and white image.  It must be saved as a 24 bit color depth (RGB).  Second life software supports only two color depths........24 bit (RGB) and 32 bit (RGBA).  A black and white image can be either grayscale of RGB(A).  If you were able to upload your black and white image it was RGB or RGBA and not grayscale.  The word grayscale means it's 8 bit color depth (256 different shades of gray from pure white to pure black).  When you say black and white it can be any color depth.  You're uploading black and white images at 24 or 32 bit color depth, not grayscale images.

 

If you are interested in learning more, here's where I started out a few years ago and that lead to more reading............it's interesting if you like digital graphics.  Probably boring if you just want to edit digital images.  It helps when you understand what's happening but it's not entirely necessary.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth

[Shelby Silverspar]

I upload and use grayscale jpgs in SL all the time. They upload fine, display fine, are very small files and easy to tint. This may not have always been the case, but it is now.

The photo below is a grayscale image, applied to a prim, and definitely not rgb, and as you can see it displays fine.

 

If I were to download it from my inventory back to Photoshop, it will show up as an rgb tga, however.

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

It's a moot point.  I know what you are saying but I don't think you know what I'm saying.  Second Life does not support 8 bit color depth images/textures.  Your "grayscale" is not an 8 bit color depth image........it's RGB or RGBA.  Grayscale images are 8 bit color depth.  Black and white (what you are mistakenly calling "grayscale") can be uploaded to SL............I've done that myself many times.  Those images/textures are 24 bit or 32 bit color depth images, therefor not grayscale (which can only be 8 bit color depth).  This undestanding might be relevant to the OP because the OP recieved an error message about the "bit" (or something to that effect)..........which might indicate the image was not a 24 bit or 32 bit color depth image/texture.

 

It's the misused of terms or words that causes problems.  And if the problem is that the image/texture that causes this error message is, in fact, a color depth problem, then is pretty obvious it's, at least, relatively important to understand what terms and words mean when it comes to graphics.  Black and white is not always grayscale.  Grayscale, on the other hand, is always black and white.  The words or terms are not interchangable.  That's where the confusion is.

[Shelby Silverspar]

I've been a graphic artist, working in my field for many many years in RL, I am very familiar with the technicalities. You are mistakenly stating in a help forum that a grayscale image will not upload to sl. I'm telling you it will upload, so this is not the problem the OP is having.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Shelby Silverspar]

Thank you, I was beginning to think I was losing my mind. Cool name, I always like clever.

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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

I tried it to confirm. You are correct that grayscale JPGs (8 bit color depth, not B&W 24bit RBG) do upload to second life.

And I happen to know that grayscale PNGs also upload without problems.

It's the Targa's grayscales that fail to upload.

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[Peggy Paperdoll]

I kind of hate to do this to you but evidently you insist:

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Uploading an image

1. Go to File > Upload Image (L$10).
2. Choose a valid TGA, PNG, BMP, or JPG file with at least 24-bit color. PNG (24-bit) and TGA (32-bit) files allow the use of transparent effects via an alpha channel. For example, a stained glass window. You can't upload files saved in 8-bit, 16-bit or palletized color. Most modern image editors can convert between formats.

Tip: When uploading, textures are scaled to the nearest "powers of 2" aspect ratio due to how the system handles textures. If you find this results in unwanted stretching/squishing, you may prefer to use your image editor's built-in resampling to optimize proportions prior to upload.

 

What image format should I use?

TGA (32-bit supports alpha channel), PNG (24-bit supports alpha channel), or BMP. When you upload an image, the Viewer internally converts it to JPG2000 for optimized future transmission. For best quality, try to avoid uploading JPGs; their already-compressed quality degrades further because of the double conversion.

 

What are good sizes for textures?

Textures should be as small as possible — texture size is highly context-sensitive so it takes experienced artistic judgment. For example, if you're texture-mapping a tiny pebble, its detail can be negligible compared to a giant tree in the same scene. For general use, 512x512 is a fair balance.

The maximum resolution for an uploaded texture is 1024x1024 pixels; if you upload a bigger image, it'll be scaled down to 1024x1024 pixels. Even if you have a fast Internet connection and top-end graphics card, your computer can only display a finite amount of texture data.

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That is a direct paste from the Second Life Knowledge Base.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/tkb/articleprintpage/tkb-id/English_KB@tkb/article-id/76

 

And, after all this discussion I believe the OP's problem is very likely to be related to color bit depth not being either 24 or 32.  I'm not trying to argue (or create drama, as accused earlier by another poster).  I'm trying to help the person who asked the question........even though they haven't responded since the initial post.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I stand corrected.........evidently SL has changed the accepted color depths since the last time I tried uploading an 8 bit texture about 3 years ago.  LL needs to correct the Knowledge Base in that respect. 

 

I tried it.......it uploaded fine.  I also tried to save a 16 bit texture to JPEG in GIMP.........JPEG supports only grayscale and RGB so you can't even make that mistake.  So the problem the OP is experiencing is probably not due to color depth.  Everyone can only go with what is documented by the developers of software or experience.  My experience from a few years ago is that 8 bit textures will not upload and the Knowledge Base says SL does not support 8 bit color depth textures.......that evidently has changed.  Something LL should correct.

 

I'll try to exercise my forum ranking to see if I can jar someone into correcting the misinformation in the KB.  I think my ranking says I can...........I'll try anyway.

 

So now.........what is the OP's problem?  It isn't color depth.  The OP states the images are TGA so it isn't format.  The image file size is not the issue since the SL software will take care of that on upload.  I'm sort of at the end of ideas.

 

Edit.

To make things even more complicated I just converted a full color JPEG image to 16 bit and saved as TGA.  It uploaded to SL just fine too.............so the Knowledge Base is inaccurate on two occassions.  Apparently SL accepts all the commonly used color depths (8, 16, 24, and 32).  That's a pretty big error in the Knowledge Base in my opinion.

[Smoovious Laxness]

just being picky here...

 

GIF uses 8 bits indexed...

 

(sets L$2 on the table)

 

-- Smoov

 

[Shelby Silverspar]

I don't think gifs are in question as we can't upload them to sl anyway.