Thinking of starting a "hangout/club/beach", HELP!

[hazeonelove]

As always, let me know if there's a better forum to post this topic in.

Ok, so I'll keep it as short as I can, I know I drag on and get off topic a lot...

I'm wanting to start a hangout location. I can't really give references of my goal, because I haven't seen it. And I'm also not giving away my plan. But I want to have maybe like a beach or private location, where I can use the full rights as land owner, and also the max populous mark, which is 100 avies at once. I know NOTHING of renting/owning actual land, besides the common skybox and estate rentals (residential). The information I know of so far is:

A) I need COMMERCIAL land in order to have people come in and hang out on their own, without having to add them one by one.

B) I need (want) at least a 1/4 sim with no less than 4,000 prims (7,000+ would be better, if affordable). And I have found affordable 1/4 sims that size.

C) Owning land is cheaper than renting, in the long term. But, there are a lot of little drawbacks to it. Such as, having to pay tier fees and an abundant down payment.

Other than that, I'm clueless. Decorating, filling the space, landscape, design, etc. Those aren't really my concerns. I have a clear idea of how I want it, look and layout, and I know how to molest the marketplace fairly well lol. So it's not a concern, yet. But I know nothing about what type of specific land I need to make a public park/recreation area. As I said, also want my club on the land, and other activities and hangout areas to enjoy. I can afford... Well, I'll put it this way. I'm WILLING to spend anywhere from $50-$150 a month. That's USD. The best I have found is something like 7,500 prims, 1/4 sim for I think around $L7,500. Not sure if that's full permissions and utmost traffic. But at that moment, I was looking for size. Stupidly, I rented a place at Bella Pointe, starting last night, thinking I could have it public. Well, I found out rather quickly that I just rented a residential area. So... It's fairly useless to me. Any information is appreciated! Thanks for helping!


EDIT: I am NOT looking to make money, charge a fee for group invites, entry fee, "must be in group", etc. None of that. I just want to create a nice hangout for everyone, with my vision and style. I just have enough funds to do so. I don't need or want to get famous or have workers (besides managers for when I'm absent).

[Kenbro Utu]

Just as a start, if you want to have the maximum number of avatars the sim will support (don't count on 100 at a time actually being stable), then you must own the entire sim or you will be unfairly using the sim resources and preventing anyone else who has a parcel on the sim from utilizing it.  

[hazeonelove]

Thank you for that. And I knew that, kinda. I just don't know HOW to buy instead of rent, and what it intails. All I know is about something called "tiers", which you have to pay to Linden (if not a private owner), on top of the regular monthly payment of the land AND a sufficient down payment. I've seem parcels, 1/4 sims, 1/2 sims, full sims and so on. But I'm not sure what exact type I need in order to run a recreational area. I understand about the traffic and taking away from the rest of the sim... If I can find something that allows 40 avies, that's fine too. Because I've never seen more than 20 people in one park at a time (the park I saw had a limit of 20, which seems sufficient enough). I also don't have the affordability to rent a whole sim by myself. But contrary to that, I'm not wanting a partner either. Sharing a sim means sharing a plan. And it's difficult enough to find people stable (financially/socially) enough that will stick around as a partner, let alone share the same goal. I also have heard horror stories of clubs/beaches becoming popular, then one partner decides to change all the setting and take over. Which I don't want to risk.

[Kenbro Utu]

The tier is not on top of the monthly payment, the tier is the monthly payment.  

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You need to be the estate owner of  a full prim sim which you can buy from LL or on the secondary market.  LL charges $1000US most secondary market sims go for half of that or less. If you buy a secondary market sim you can rename it and move it to the location of your choice for no additional charge,  If you don't do it when the ownership transfer is done you have to pay a fee to do that.

After pruchase you have to pay tier directly to LL by automatic charge to your credit card or verified PayPal, unless you can earn lindens and caxh them out and put the money in your US Dollar account.  If there is cash there then the tier is taken from that account first, and your credit or paypal account is only charged for the difference if any.  The fee is $295US a month plus any taxes imposed by your country, for example VAT if you live in europe.

Your plan is just not feasible if you don't own full prim sim and have enough funds, so you need to scale back..  You won't have full control of the sim, and won't be able to have 100 people eiither.  Most estate owners set the sim to 40-60 people there at once and that number has to be shared with other land owners.  You also need a commercial sim that allows clubs or hangouts with heavy traffic, (most don't).  Read the covenant to be sure and if in doubt ask the estate owner to approve yur plan before putting down a penny.

You will only be able to afford a half sim on your budget IF you find one that is grandfathered (meaning the estate owner has owned it so long they pay the original tier rate of 195US a month) AND the estate owner reflects the lower pricing in their rates, which is nt required and many don't.  Keep in mind you will be charged more than they pay to LL so they get some profit or there is no point in renting it to you.  Finding a place like this that allows heavy traffic venues like you plan is not going to be easy and you may not ever find one.  So unless you luck out and find this, you will have to go with a quarter sim that allows clubs.

[hazeonelove]

I see that now... Everything you said is true. With what I want to do, I just need to own a full sim. Which, I truly can't do. Not only that, but I've also been searching inworld for the past 4 hours, and I've found only a few. But, they are weird with their covenant and bend a lot of the LL TOS into more of what THEY see fit. And for running an open public hangout, I'm sure rules (besides the LL TOS) are the last thing I want. I thought, at first, that all the beach clubs I've seen were parts of sims, rented by the club owner. But to my understanding now, they are on a full sim and must own it. I can't understand any other way as of right now. Because for one, there's a lot going on and a big area (full sim). And two, if no one was showing up at their place (like a lot of dead sims I've come across), I don't see why or how they world pay rent for that size land.

[Alwin Alcott]

and in addition...or perhaps did i read over it, don't forget you need a building and decor, unless you'r a designer and landscaper yourself that will cost some lindens too.

If you only look at a good dancesystem with good animations it will be already quite a few thousend lindens... if you plan to use the free animatioins your visitors won't be impressed much, even when most will wear their own chimera/dancehud.

If it's not a club, even for a beach you will need scripted and animated furniture and things, how about life music? hosts?... if you aim on 100 people you can't manage on your own 24/7

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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hazeonelove wrote:

.... they are weird with their covenant and bend a lot of the LL TOS into more of what THEY see fit. And for running an open public hangout, I'm sure rules (besides the LL TOS) are the last thing I want.I thought, at first, that all the beach clubs I've seen were parts of sims, rented by the club owner. But to my understanding now, they are on a full sim and must own it. I can't understand any other way as of right now. Because for one, there's a lot going on and a big area (full sim). And two, if no one was showing up at their place (like a lot of dead sims I've come across), I don't see why or how they world pay rent for that size land.

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You need to understand the TOS governs the entire grid and is the basic law of the land so to speak.  However a land owner is free to set any additional or more restrictive rules they want to, as long as they don't conflict with the TOS  It is like RL in that the federal law governs everything in the country but a local jurisdiction can set zoning rules or a person can set house rules up in their home as long as they don't conflict with the constitution or federal law.

As far as the economics of a sim, many sims are only busy during certain hours and if you are not logged in during that time they appear dead.  Don't forget, people from all over the world are in SL and a sim may cater to a certain group in a particular time zone 

The economics of a sim fall into one of several models.  The first is outside sources pay for it.  Some people make enough money in RL they can afford a sim without worrying about it paying for itself or or there is a business sponsor, or there is a grant to pay for it because its part of an educational program of some sort.  The second is that there is something going on there that people spend money on, such as rentals (which may be hidden from the public up in the sky if they are private), or selling a product or service there, The third is developing a group of people come there that love the place so much they regularly donate to keep the place going.  Lastly, some have pay to join and use the sim groups, or pay to enter

Many sims are a combination of the above with some form of income producing activity, and some donations that offset part of the cost with the estate owner paying out of pocket for the rest.