Photography and Photoshop (Question/Discussion)

[Dolly Waifu]

So, i've been doing photography on SL for almost as long as I can remember, i've done a few jobs here and there, but its mostly for pleasure. When I have tried to find work though, most will ask that you own and have advanced knowledge of photoshop.

I understand that some people may need photoshop to get a picture to look great, smooth out pixels, or whatnot. But, (for clothing designers especially) wouldn't you rather have someone who could make your clothes look good inworld in pictures without needing to edit it to hell? Why is photoshop such a necessity? I feel like the tools provided on most viewers (ultra graphics, windlight, shadows, etc) are more than enough for the skilled to take beautiful photos without any further editing.

What do you all think?

P.S. I use gimp on occasion, but only to add shadows since my graphics card can't handle them inworld. I normally don't touch them after their taken except to crop them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reyetta/9410136353/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reyetta/6160021605/

[Trinity Yazimoto]

well id say its a question of personal preferences.

As a customer, id say that an adpic is really important because, its the first contact i have with the item. When i buy clothes, i want they look great... what do use ppl when they create a piece of clothing ? Photoshop or gimp most of the time.. If the adpic doesnt look great, then i may think the person has 0 skills for photoshop or gimp and thus, 0 skills for creating the clothes too... I say 0 skill, its a way of talking of course.. but you see the idea... 

Contrarily to some person who seems to not want an adpic is photoshoped, for me, its the evidence the person has the skills requiered to make the clothe great quality.

But this is just a matter of personal preferences, as i said before.

As a creator, id say that adpics must all have the same style.. they have to be recognized among other ones... Then... a simple inworld snapshot wont be enough... Adpic must have a certain amount of texts giving some infos, they need to have all the same layout and mostly the same background... At least for me...It makes it easier for every customer to know the item is from this brand and not another one... It has to match with a graphic chart, and have a certain coherence with the other vendors.... and you cant make this inworld.. you need an external software.

Again this is my personal preference.. other ppl may have another mindset, of course.

As a photograph... making a pic with a powerful comp with a excellent graph card is not a challenge for me, if at least you dont improve it with some editing works....I dont consider my snapshots as mine, as a work from me, before i edit them in pshop... First, there is almost always something to improve, secondly, when i edit them, i use them as a basis to make another pic expressing smth i want to express...At least every pic then, is hours of my work.... For me the snapshots i make inworld are only materials i use to make my own pics..

Again... this is only my point of view... I know a lot of persons doesnt like a pic is edited. i have no problem with that till there is respect for both mindsets....

Since you asked an opinion, i gave you mine with the point of view of a customer, a fashion designer, and a photograph.... and as you can guess, a photoshop lover lol... I hope this will help you to maybe understand more the answers you have in front of you  and will give you maybe more arguments to better defend your point of view :smileywink:

That s said, good luck in whatever you'll do.

[Tamara Artis]

If we type photography into SL search (that I am naming as example, not something that works) we get 3343 results. If we type clothing we get 16192 results. All of them are doing photography, photoshop editing and whatnot for their own pleasure, the difference is that people who do more then cropping are more likely to earn some lindens with it. 

Are you a clothing designer or a person who is trying to find a job as a photographer? I am not sure I understand the point here, saying that some people may need ps to get a picture to look great and edit it to hell, do you think they wouldn't be able to create quality snapshots at all or that they should stop right there? 

I think you are not aware of all the details and majority of work that needs to be done to get recognized amongst thousands of results I mentioned at the beginning of this post. Because people who use ps to edit their photos to hell are ones who are finding the work, or better yet the work is finding them. I mention work because you said you have tried to find some work. 

Now if I may ask some questions lol, if you think its not needed to edit the photos in ps/gimp, how would you fix distorted avis wrists and ankles, shoulders or hairs that are either floating above the body or sinking into it? These are some things that noone likes to see and some basis when it comes to normal nice looking photos. 

 

 

[Jackson Redstar]

all the ultra settings in the world wont fix the findemental flaws avis have, which are more noticiable in certain poses

and why buy a mercedes whey a basic toyota will do the job? cause a mercedes is more refined and deserable

 

this is an out of camera shot. just cropped. not 'bad'

 

Fixed in photoshop fixed joint smoothness, skin blemishes and overall image enhancement

 

IMO at least, Photoshop (or GIMP) just finishes what you did in world. You made the bread, now you have to bake it before you can serve it

 

[LepreKhaun]

I'm in complete agreement with what you say and wish to further add what has always distinguished great photography from "pretty pictures".

 

A photographer may have spent considerable time in setting their position, getting the lighting just right (or waiting days for just the right lighting outdoors!), framing the composition and adjusting whatever factors they could control. But, once the picture was taken, it entered the darkroom.

 

There's a tremendous body of knowledge that has been developed in darkroom techniques used to further enhance a photograph which includes masking, burning in, dodging, air brushing, hand tinting and a lot more. Looking at http://www.ephotozine.com/learn/techniques/darkroom-printing-98 gives you an idea of what I'm driving at.

 

And programs such as Photoshop and Gimp are, in a very real sense, the darkrooms for digital pictures. Darkrooms on steroids, in fact, since the digital medium offers many more possibilities than film!

 

So, Reyetta, my take on this is:

If you're serious about becoming professional or even just want to continue to grow as a hobbyist in the craft, you're shorting your potential if you don't learn to use a photofinishing program. Since you have a strong compositional style and good color sense (judging by your flickr stream), you should ask yourself if you want to continue making "pretty pictures" or are willing to take the next step to possible greatness.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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LepreKhaun wrote:

I'm in complete agreement with what you say and wish to further add what has always distinguished great photography from "pretty pictures".

 

A photographer may have spent considerable time in setting their position, getting the lighting just right (or waiting days for just the right lighting outdoors!), framing the composition and adjusting whatever factors they could control. But, once the picture was taken, it entered the darkroom.

 

There's a tremendous body of knowledge that has been developed in darkroom techniques used to further enhance a photograph which includes masking, burning in, dodging, air brushing, hand tinting and a lot more. Looking at 

http://www.ephotozine.com/learn/techniques/darkroom-printing-98

 gives you an idea of what I'm driving at.

 

And programs such as Photoshop and Gimp are, in a very real sense, the darkrooms for 

digital pictures. Darkrooms on steroids, in fact, since the digital medium offers many more possibilities than film!

 

 

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i couldnt agree more.

but it seems that a trending now that pp forget that before digital photography, the development of photos was not something neutral;  at least when it was done serioulsy and in an artistic purpose... nothing to see with a development of holidays pics in a supermarket of course....

but the development was for a lot of great and famous photograph a stage of post processing. 

Thanks a lot for reminding that .

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Personally I don't think the clothes themselves should be photoshopped.  Its OK to take the pics under good lighting but not to correct or enhance anything about them post production, as that seems dishonest.  I know it is done in RL but you can always go so the actual clothes before you put your money down.  You can't do that in SL. Even though some mesh clothes have demos, most don't have the actual textures on the demo.  They have watermarks or just a different texture all together.   I have no objection to things in the picture not being sold being 'improved' or backgrounds added, however.

I've been burned in SL a number of times buying things that look fabulous in a photo but when I get them it is shoddy work.  Yes I admit to being very picky and that I could only patronize well known designers, but I enjoy finding great things that not many other's have and supporting promising creators too.

 

[Dolly Waifu]

Yes! I'm glad someone else agrees. You get it! It may benefit designers to enhance pictures of their clothes with photoshop, erase seams, brighten colors, and whatnot, but it doesn't benefit the people who buy those clothes in the least. Consumers hold a certain amount of trust in the photos on the webpage or on a display in the store, and if that isn't acurate because it's been made to look better than it actually is, they've now bought a product that they might not even be able to wear because of the rift between what they're expecting and what they've got.

I've experienced this as well in the past, but i've learned to be very careful before I buy. If there isn't a good demo for me to try on, but I still really want the item, i'll often IM the creator and ask nicely if they have time to try on the actual item inworld for me so I can see it. It doesn't always work, but a lot of designers are really understanding and helpful. If i'm still unsure, I just won't buy the item.

I do understand extensively editing photos for personal use, or for glamour shots and such if that's what you want (I generally don't), but it you're trying to sell something (besides your photoshop skills), I agree that editing the pictures is dishonest.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Using photoshop for a vendor pic is not forcelly cheating.

Noone said that the part concerning the clothe itself has to be modified.

I dont add any postprocessing on my clothing. I extract it from the background, i correct the hair or my eyes or any lil details that is not looking good and that is not ON my outfit. And i dont change any settings on it. 

Then i added to my usual background with text layers etc.

YOU CANT DO THAT INWORLD. you need to use an external software. This is probably why every creator you asked to hire you, asked you if you know a lil about photoshop. 

Im sorry, but vendorpic that are only inworld snapshots with no background, no text etc.. mean a "no buy" from me.

Also, you have to think that if someone can create clothing, this person can also make a good snapshot from the outfit to add it in a vendor... Why someone should pay another person for that ? 

A vendor pic is not a snapshot, its smth that has to transmit a message and give ppl willings to buy. 

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Personally I don't think the clothes themselves should be photoshopped.  Its OK to take the pics under good lighting but not to correct or enhance anything about them post production, as that seems dishonest.  I know it is done in RL but you can always go so the actual clothes before you put your money down.  

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You never bought on a catalogue  ?