Advice Needed - MP Review - Spam? Flag?

[Qbic]

Hello all,

 

 

I would like some advice from merchants and customers about negative reviews.

 

A customer contacted my manager last week to congratulate me about my designs, and to ask for custom job, a mod of mesh prefab he tried in demo in fact

unfortunately I have no time for new custom job order until end of summer,

so we asked him to contact me again later, if he still needs this custom job to be done at this time, 

all seemed ok and next day he bought the prefab in fact.

 

 

He contacted  my manager tonight and asked for a "bug fix" by IM.

He asks to upload physic shape for a seat and for wall shelves, saying that they are buggy because they are phantom.

 

My manager (Axel) connected 1 hour after to explain to him next facts :

- only useful parts that really needs a collision box to use it have simplified physic shape in our builds (walls, floor, stairs, doors but not roof, shelves, seats, decoration...) 

- because ... it save prims for 100% mesh build 

- because... it help avatar to move in little closed spaces 

- those parts are phantom in DEMO too, that he tried, so it's not a bug of full version 

 

As he started to require more than ask, my manager decide to ask to me before continue.

But this person start to be a bit "strange", like not reading at all, and still asking the same thing in boucle.

Axel is manager..., he handle requests and when he can't help he escalate to me, he's not super fluent in English, just like me, but I think is polite.

He can fix almost all troubles In World but if it goes to mesh mod, I have to handle it, so he couldn't confirm anything before talk to me.

He contacted back the customer 1 hour after his first mail, and asked him 24h to be sure to reach me and have an answer to give him, i think that a correct schedule for customer care no ?

I am in holidays with my old laptop, Axel knows I can't run 3Ds Max until Wednesday, but i could help for temporal fix if customer were not so rude I guess

 

So .. customer started to require, menace to do bad publicity, to ask for the blender compatible model because he paid the full perm pack (?¿...)...

Axel decide to stop to talk for nothing, he reminds him that he tried the demo and that the product is an exact copy,

customer told him that he can't check all details on demo and that's a bug.. boucle ....period

so... he said to the customer that we were not interested on custom job for now, and good bye.

 

45 mn after that, this customer sent an IM to tell that he will follow the advice of Axel to try better demos to not have this kind of misunderstanding,

and he bought ALL my demo items on MP...

then he let reviews quite negative on all demos telling that ALL my items are buggy with "physic shape missing" and I was too lazy to do a good job and fix it....and so on, depends of the "review".

But to be complete... he copy/paste some sentences from IM with my manager on review.

 

I contacted him In World and tried to explain him that was not really an understanding way to ask for custom job, 

he answer me that he has no time for read stories and he wants the bug fixed now or he won't ask me for a bigger custom job he'll pay several hundreds bucks...

Keeping my nerves ... and saying goodbye.

after some fresh air I put a comment on each review but i didn't' flag them, for now.

 

I wanted to know your opinion about the eventual TOS infringement because I'm not sure about those points :

- IM copy/paste with name on review

- review about one item on the listing of other items, buying the demo only to be able to review/spam

- doing this on 10 items within 40 mn

 

I try to think that with this way to act, customers will notice that something goes wrong.. with this guy, not with the products,I hope that obvious, but even like this... 

should I flag them ?

there is a chance that LL act on this ?

 

If reviews are deleted  by LL, I could expose myself to a "vendetta", buying again all demos... or more subtle , maybe...

 

thank you for comment and help ;)

 

Have a nice day,  Best regards,

Qbic [Resident]

 

 

[Lutricia Roux]

 

---

Qbic wrote:

...

I wanted to know your opinion about the eventual TOS infringement because I'm not sure about those points :

- IM copy/paste with name on review

...

 

---

You can file an abuse report for this alone, it is against the Community Standards to share IM:s:

"Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited."

Source: Community Standards. (TOS are to be find here).

Other then that, I'd recommend to contact support and ask for support. To me, without being in authority to state this, it is abusive behaviour.

If it is of any comfort, a flag usually boost the relevance for you item in search no matter bad or good and customers seem to be curious why a seemingly good product only have one star and therefore it may even get more "good" attention.

If you flag it, make sure to add a comment to the reviews. I had this advice from Linden support myself. That way they can see your reason more clearly for the flagging too.

[Tamara Artis]

Before buying an item on MP I usually read first few reviews and for bad ones I check are there any comments added by merchant or other customers, and there all of us can see that the majority of bad reviews are made by people who either don't understand the type of product they bought (for example saying the mesh dress is bad because it doesn't fit their oversized unproportional shape) or just trying to make your head go nuts.

Sooner or later any person that creates and sells something in SL will have this kind of situation, and if you can't fix it move on, you can't please everyone and specially not the people who are acting like your only purpose is to ignore everything you have in your life and focus on their custom-picky-attention-hungry persona. Even if you had time to create a new version of the product the person bought, most likely they would find something else that doesn't really looks like they have imagined, or they simply missed to let you know what they want. 

And posting names in reviews is against TOS.

[Rya Nitely]

Firstly, you have a valid reason to flag those demo listings and explain in your comments that several demos were bought in a short period of time and given negative reviews which appear to be spite.

Secondly, why are demos being rated at all? I strongly believe that demos should NOT be able to be reviewed. You bought the demo to check it out for faults and quality, and If you find faults then the demo has served its purpose 100% - it means you don't buy the full version.

Thirdly I have seen IMs put into comments - long conversations with disgruntled customers. One such review was flagged and nothing happened to remove it. So, I don't know about the TOS there.

 

[Lutricia Roux]

---

Rya Nitely wrote:

Thirdly I have seen IMs put into comments - long conversations with disgruntled customers. One such review was flagged and nothing happened to remove it. So, I don't know about the TOS there.

 

---

I rather guess they did a mistake in reviewing the flag or the reason for it? Sharing IM:s should as I understand it, be prohibited no matter if it is a review or not? I would hope it is the "share without consent" that is of relevance.

[Rya Nitely]

Well, it is still there today, and according to the merchant involved someone had flagged it and LL chose to do nothing - these are close to the words used in the comments section.

[Lutricia Roux]

I'm not surprised. Too bad they don't live up to what they state, but that is perhaps too much to ask

 

[Qbic]

Hello All,

 

thank you so much four your comments,

 

 

Lutricia :

I was quite sure about IM copy/paste but i was not able to find again this source 

it's the first time in 6 years that i have to handle this kind of behaviour... was a lucky guy until now  lool

I was thinking too that maybe i should ask for support before start to flag just on the MP, 

and I have no idea about this guy historial (3 years in SL), maybe "they" already know him ^^

 

I think you are right for the "1 star effect", it's mainly why i was not sure if flag or not,

because I hope strongly that people does as I do, and as Tamara does...

... read comments if exist for a review, and if you read this guy, overall after this morning last comment...that's almost, if not completely, in my favor

( I won't copy paste, but the essential : "Are we forced to try demo ?" but he did... "I asked a favor, 10mn job" Oh..so it's not a bug anymore..ok ^^ )

 

Rya :

I agree with you about rating demo, I would love that they just don't appear at all in listing in fact, they should be available only from the full version page from my point of view.

but if we have to deal with them,  I would love that people use this to make constructive critics that help to improve next releases for example.

Would be great that people see it as suggestion box, 

you rate with stars the main mood that give you the product even if don't fit exactly your need and just 3 words to say why you won't buy.

for example I 'm in love with Home builds or decoration items I won't buy because they don't fit exactly my needs, and I know that modify them would be boring for me or maybe not possible (mesh, sculpt...), or i just love the work of this designer and I try demo time to time...

so i would put a 5 star, because the product IS great (well done, working, creative...), and i would say something like "I would love it with blablabla feature, maybe next release "

at least the merchant know why I don't buy from him, most of time he( I) won't be interested by doing really the suggestion and modify the build, doesn't matter, it's feed-back for new idea in the future and if 4 or 10 customers suggest the same... ^^

If i try a product and I DON'T LIKE it  but it IS/DOES what the merchant says, i won't review at all.

If the product have really a big problem/bug not easy to detect trying demo and that could be a bad surprise for other customers, I contact the merchant, maybe SL corrupted something...

and IF i have no answer at all or no change on listing (no need to have a personal contact, I'm nobody ^^) within 15 days (explanation or correction), then I'll put a "negative" review about, 1 to 3 stars, because not all is bad, and I won't burn the merchant, I try to stay in "suggestion" mode because I could be wrong in my judgement after all, and of course i would correct my review later if the merchant explain or modify.

...but this guy doesn't understand that phantom objects, if don't need to collide to be used, is not a bug in SL... .. what i can do ^^

 

 

Tamara :

I hope really most of people does like you and like me, reading all and  trying by themselves

 

In fact I'm quite used to deal with this kind of behaviour In World, Alex my manager too, he had skin shops too, but... at this time, I had listing on xstreet, but 99% of purchase was made In world, I never had any star/review....  

I had a skin store long time ago, then I did scripted object (kinky stuff) and gave a try to build too.

With skins it was very simple, some corrupted textures once a year, some misunderstanding about no transfer/no refund, but really i have no bad memories of customer care, maybe just some but more about vendors bugs ^^.

Some people asking for custom skin ? yes, very few and answer was simple.. "I'm not good enough, I need weeks to release one face and I suffer too much on it... sorry... to hard for me" .. because it was the truth...

With Prefabs, at this time, it was simple to modify for customers, was prims, mega prims and few scuplties later, so except some people that had no idea about "rez-a-cube", I had few trouble with customer care, and no more than 5 or 6 custom jobs I did for sim Owners, but was not from customers, more from "builder social network". I had a "NO CUSTOM" on my profile and was enough in the past

(I'm still seeing some shops I did in 2008, rezzed In World and used by "established medium-sized merchants" , that make my day each time I tp somewhere and I have this moment... "oh..how familiar is this place I never visited, even still rezzing ^^)

With scripted Object (3 months development with my partner), I had my first rude customers, I spent hours/nights doing settings and live demo for customers that finish to ask me to modify completely the item or to refund them because it was not was they thought.

I had In world "Live Self Demos" with full access to all features, FAQ, youtube videos, tutorial In World and on blog... all in english, french and spanish, the product itself was traduced, support 18/24h day... no way, i was selling at 500L... Zindra came,  I was burnt and, yes, I left SL business and then SL

 

 

 

Bad public comments (i mean if not justified of course) are a new experience for me, and I'm not really sure how  to take advantage of it instead trying to "fight" them in a action-reaction actitude.

Last night I posted a comment on each review as soon as possible to "mitigate" the bad effect, but I wanted to do one step behind and think well how to manage it from now I'm not familiar with social network but it seems that exist some kind of "strategies" to deal with that with good manners and ethic, no ?  

I'm still thinking but I think I should do a support ticket first to explain to LL,

then I should flag all reviews on all demos listing that have nothing to see with the item this customer bought in full version, because they are spam and they are against TOS.

But I think that maybe I should let the "speech freedom" on the Item Listing and is related demo, just asking for IM copy/paste removal, and let people judge the request of this person and he's way to play with nerves.

 

I have only one regret, if you read a review, you won't see the comment if you don't click the link, the should be readable like a forum, on the row, people have to make 3 clicks from Item page to see first the review resume, then enter in the bad review, then to see answer in comments.... not super ergonomic

 

Thank you all, 

Best regards,

Qbic

 

[Rya Nitely]

As you say, people may not read the reviews. They may see the 1 star and move on to another product. Why take the risk? The competition is too great and it's too easy for customers to look elsewhere.

Some people might say that a bad review makes no difference but I think this is only the case if your product is popular or if you have a good reputation - maybe this is your case. But why risk it?

I really think flagging the items with a comment to explain why it is unfair would get them removed. Then you can forget it, hopefully. Unless he uses an alt to do it all again. But I think it's unlikley.

And I know what you mean by physics. I do the same when I build boats - all the seats are phantom, and my physics is 3 blocks - one for the floor and two for the sides.

[TheG0t]

I think the review system is complete BS tool people use when their to lazy to read and do not understand their product .

Or where asked to leave a nice review  90% of the time its not a strait out "please hit up my review" instead its done by IMing people after they buy things and in a way pushing them into that direction .

 I never read reviews outside of a laugh , I am a leap of faith with full thoughts I will crash and burn in the end when I shop here .

This is my alt because I come to hate most of people in SL these days, sounds harsh but I just got tired of the tools LL offers  grievers , thieves and stupid people . To a point I closed my more involved shops and stick to simple builds I enjoy in my own time and keep it to a size I can give 100% good support at any time a day so I do not have to deal with these numb nuts and their abuse of the review system.

I have flagged my fair share of those, it  took about 5 days to be removed when I did and its a 4 day holiday weekend here in the states where LL main office is.

 

[Tamara Artis]

Its your listing and you do whatever you think its best for you. IMO things should stay as they are because people are not stupid and everyone with half sain head can see that those reviews were nothing but poor attempt to annoy you. Since the person didn't find it hard to buy all your demos and review each of them most likely they will do it again after existing reviews get removed. 

And yes its sad to see how many people use these reviews only to try and beat the competition, I am sorry it happened to you.

[Qbic]

Hello All,

 

finally, I had a chat with LL support and I Flagged everything...

 

If they don't remove ,but they say they will for IM copy/past , my comment should help....

 

If this guy play hardcode with Alt... well... I'll have to write more comments ... I don't like the idea, it will be very frustrating, but if I can't handle it I'll sell In World Only

 

I had one that was obviously a fake customer, ... no demo on MP, no visit Inworld, buy an expensive full perm pack and review 15mn later with 1 star and "I don't like, I have to buy another one"... No answer to IM to know what happened, empty profile... quite suspicious ^^ ... nothing to do...

 

I think this one is just a guy very frustrated because Axel has not been impressed by the promise of 500 bucks for a future custom job... just an ego that have a bad week-end I suppose and I hope     (empty profile too, just pictures and tastes...no idea why he bought FP)

 

Thank you all for your advices,

I back to my holidays and I disconnect until wenesday... hoping Axel won't have a war to manage during this time

 

 

Best regards,

 

Qbic

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

@Qbic

Great job you're doing with the mesh structures...keep up the good work!

Unfortunately there are some annoying customers out there. I used to keep a note card listing all the good things customers said - it helped me remember that most customers are great. I think it's easy to remember the bad ones because it's a kind of self-protective mechanism (we remember bad things so we can avoid the pain in the future).

Some of these bad reviews do come from competition, and some come from people who get their kicks from annoying people. I encountered a new dynamic last week where a person left a bad review for a copyable item she purchased months ago as a way to engage me and get her money back. I suspect she used my item for an event and no longer needed the item and so thought she could get a little needed cash by returning it.
She did keep me entertained for awhile - I had never heard so many novel reasons for why I should 'keep the customer happy'.

Is there a way you could get rid of all those Demos? Like have a small space with a vendor that rezzes them for people to check them out ahead of purchase? Even a rented platform in the sky in an area that allows commerce? I fear with these Demos it will be a non-ending battle as it's making it so easy for your competition to purchase.

[Qbic]

 

Hello Luna,

 

Thank you so much for your comment about my work  

 

In fact I have already a demo place In World where everything is permanently rezed,  for people that do not have already bought the land for the future shop and don't like use a sand box to rez demo,... and because I'm old-school and I like to showcase In world ^^

But I know that some people prefer to "try and buy" from their virtual couch, because they have already the land and like to check size (overall for those "interior design" you can integrate in you main "exterior" build), or because it's easier to show to friends and partners at home than TP everybody to every designer place for example.

It's was my purpose for Demo on MP, but I have to say that even before this incident, I was not comfortable to have them listed as product, I find it annoying.

 

So, I'm really thinking on remove them from MP, and put them in "take away" In World Only, so people still can try at home.

 

and last,

maybe I should change a little bit my way to show case, to prevent lot of misunderstandings about mesh possibilities....

I suppose I lost the "newbie" point of view about this kind of stuff because I play with cube/sculpt/mesh for long time now (without doing business with during long time too)

even if I try to create parts easy to manage and I provide complete FAQ, I have still the same requests about mesh "not-so-mod"

"I put the UVW template on my cube but that don't create the mesh, I want the mesh with my name" ...

"I try to remove just the shelves but the wall is gone with"...

and for example I'm very excited with new materials system, obvious for me ... but I'm going to wait few months to release "do it yourself" products because I know that customer care could be epic for now ....  

I'll give a try with finished products only for now, and even like this, with viewer compatibility and bugs...

 

Bye bye

 

Qbic

 

 

[Qbic]

Hi All,

 

LL removed all demo review yesterday afternoon, and the review on the full version item right now.

I'm going to leave demos on MP 1 week more, just time to prepare a better landing point for my show case place and i suppose i'll remove them.

End of story I hope...

 

 

Qbic

[Tiffy Vella]

That's very good news, and to me sounds more than fair, as this customer wasn't careful enough to try the demo properly and tried to blame you, couldn't understand why you made the physics the way you did, and then acted incredibly spitefully.

You were right to complain to LL.

I came to this thread too late, but wanted to add a bit, and say that I agree with the way you made your physics. Making the main structure and doorways behave properly is important. And leaving the other details (like shelves) as 'phantom' is quite correct. You did it right, and it's unfair of the customer in this case to pretend you had a faulty product.

Best of luck