VENUES WHO USE A LOOPHOLE TO POST DUPLICATE EVENTS

[Whisper Ampan]

As a venue manager and avid live music fan I use search for events postings regularly (both for posting and finding events).  LL rightly  prevents duplicates for the same event as it would simply choke the system....yet people seemed to have found a loophole.  With slight variations on title, using different avatars to post, categorizing the event in more than one category in a repost.and.reposting the event at half-hour intervals.  It is mainly one music venue that does this and I spoke to one of the owners...she didn't see it as a problem...it's very noticeable in the early morning hours when only a small number of venues operate.  One gig  last week had 4 event postings.....same performer, time and venue!!!  

 

 I feel it is  abusing the search listings .  And it goes without saying so too are those  music venues who list a DJ and recorded music as "live music"

 

I am interested in what others think?

[Teagan Tobias]

In the old search it was not so bad, one event, one line in search. But now in the “new and improved” search, one event is five or six lines. So in a busy time of day instead of 50 to 70 lines to look through you now have 250 to 350 lines to look through. Now add all the double or triple postings and you have 400 to 500 lines to look through. My problem is that after scrolling and scrolling and scrolling through line after line of the listing, sometimes I just give up and do something else. And search is useless for shopping in world so I just log. On the bright side, I have gotten a lot more yard work done.

[wrable Amat]

You can never stop people who like to cheat,reporting them might be a fruitless task as LL seems to be on auto piolet these days.

Fact is , I dout it's really working to their advantage  when they have to do things like that.

When I get to a "live music" event and it's the radio or a DJ...I leave like most do.

You also have to remember they probably are not doing so hot if that is their marketing plan (spamming events).

Talking to them will only make them do it more,crap bags like that are bottom feeders and it gets them all slimly and happy when they piss people off.

Look at it this way ,this is probably their last ditch effort to save their little money pit (and trust me clubs are) it will only be a matter of time until they are gone.

[Tamara Artis]

There are people who follow the rules and people who break them. Both groups have no effect on rules. And there are people who find their way around, not following rules, but not breaking them either. I find these people the ones who make the system better cause it is because of them that the system is changing. 

[Clint Quandry]

As a venue owner, I am always looking for 'fresh' ways to bring people in to our shows... lately, that has been more of a challenge, but isn't that why we are here in the first place? This IS a game, after all!

Search to me, is dying. Yes, we list our events in there. I have one gal who runs our online calendar, and another gal who posts our events in search... and then a full marketing team who sends out notices to advertising groups, and we still only get in about 2-4 new faces each show. We do not do 'back to back' shows very often... I don't know how some club owners can do that.. RL does have to happen sooner or later, right?  Well... I have also looked in search, and noticed some venue's listing an event multiple times... what a waste! I really don't think Search is all that hot anymore... what I DO like, is the new "Destinations" and I have submitted our venues but I still hear 'crickets'... how long should it take to get recognized by LL editors? *sighs*

Anyone with 'fresh' ideas on bringing people in... let me know!

[Whisper Ampan]

I find that Search is used more by my crowds as many have notices turned off. However I do still use group notices to advertise. I use an alt logged into the text client Metabolt. By using the plugins for Notices and IMS you can 'bulk send"..ie send the one notice to all groups at once...but I do not go over one notice and one im per event.

[Ariella Martinek]

Hello Whisp.. As the live venue area that you are talking about in this post.. I would firstly like to clear things up that you haven't mentioned in your first post..

Firstly, I am NOT spamming events pages..I have a two hour DJ event, so I post a two hour DJ event.. I have a one hour live event so I post it in two categories yes - I don't see this as spamming - I post them in live for the people who like to scroll through the live events pages, and I also post in the nightlife categories.. I do this because it gets them more exposure and that's what we all want for our live singers in SecondLife.. I really don't see it as spamming and its not broken any of the posting rules in the terms of posting events in Secondlife.. As I explained to you through our conversation, I have been running clubs in SecondLife for close to 5 years now and I have always advertised things like this - with you - being my first complaint..

Secondly I am NOT using alts or separate accounts to post my events.. If you took the time to have a look you would realise that Ariella Martinek (myself) is Co-Owner, Cindy Evanier is a Co-Owner, and TheDolphinClub is obviously our venue avatar who receives donations and pays for our sim.. So for you to turn around and say that I have found a loophole - get your facts straight..

Thirdly.. There are plenty of venues who operate during the am hours.. Have a look at event listings yourself.. What I've seen after speaking to some singers who sing at The Colour Factory is that you are infact going around to clubs who have events at the same time as you and bullying them into a few things.. That's a) pathetic, and b) more pathetic that you're worried about a bit of competition.. We should all be working together to help us ALL stay open because that is what SL is about (for me anyway) not chopping away our competition and in turn losing out on some great live performers..

Fourthly.. Well done on reporting me to LL.. I see it made no difference what so ever because guess what.. I'm NOT IN THE WRONG.. But of course.. You're welcome to your opinion on that one

To the others who have replied on here.. I know your comments were directed to this anonymous club.. But I haven't cheated, and I'm far from a bottom dweller trying to feed off everyone else.. My club does perfectly well and I'm purely advertising, within Linden Lab rules for my artists and performances.. My live events are live events, my DJs are DJs with radio streams.. I don't advertise DJs in live events - I'm not into false advertising.. As I mentioned to Whisp I'm not out for a fight, I'm not out to shut them down, I'm just here to run my club and have fun without drama as there is enough of it in RL.. I come to SL to have fun.. That's what my team and I do..

Tamara, I TOTALLY agree with you there.. It's due to the idiots that rules are changing, and IMO its all for the best..

Clint - Destinations is a great design and great for newer people to check out the latest and greatest venues.. Definitely where most club owners are going to want to be for sure..

Either way.. I'm not here to fight, or hassle, just wanted my opinion to be shared.. Yes I realise she didn't mention my clubs name in her post, but I find it interesting to see the way she's worded things to her advantage on it all.. Shame really that things get so petty.. If ANYONE can show me where I am doing something wrong, I would LOVE to talk to you about it - because we should all be here to have fun.. Not have a fit when you find some competition!

All the best with The Colour Factory Whisp

Ariella

x

[Tayla Lorakeet]

Replying to Ariella, good on you girl, I must admit that is the funniest thing I"ve ever read...The original post that is above....It appears a said person can't handle competion, and rather than enjoy having a good time in SL is hell bent on searching listings and searching the sim numbers to make sure they are not being defeated, how pathetic some people can be...venues that use a paid service to spam for them couldn't really be any better, or creating an alt to list extra events because event listings are reduced to 5 per 24 hours.....In all honesty though people don't go to the venue as such they go to hear the singer if they like them they stay if not they tp out and go on to the next, it doesn't really matter how many people a venue can drag in and who can be the biggest and the best, however it appears to some that this is all they think about....I would like to think some people in here are adults but it appears they are like little kids in the school playground when little lucy stole little johnny's lunch...Grow up already and stop worrying about YOUR competition and if you can't handle that, then YOU shouldn't be here bitching about the most trivial of things........Keep up your good work Ariella.....and DON'T let ANYONE drag you down:):matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

[BlazerStarr Sweetwater]

GROW UP  and get over your damned jealousy

[Lee Helix]

I am curious.  Did you just AR this one venue who has live performers like the venue you manage?  Or did you AR all the venues that list a DJ as a live event too as mentioned in your post?  Because if not this does come across as some sort of jealous vendetta against a venue holding events at the same time as you.

[smexxyman]

I have been to a number of events at The Dolphin club and I have to say that I find the way that Arielle lists her performers is very helpful.  I hate the "New improved" search engine.  It sucks.  If you run a search one second past the hour you miss out on who has just started performing.  I know its only a few clicks to sort this out however I find it extremely helpful that the event is listed again 30 mins later as this gives me a chance to see my favorite singers.  As for using alts etc with Metabolt, I know and agree, that is is a good idea as it saves the whole logging on/off routine and the way SL performs some nights logging back on can be a pain.  I have used Metabolt in the past and its a brilliant tool.  What really annoys me is when clubs do the same notice but with two or three alts and have them all starting at the same time.  I have never seen the Dolphin Club do this.  But I see many many other clubs do it.  As a person who lives on the "Dark side" of the world (New Zealand) I agree there are too few clubs in our time zones but lets be real, we all want to goto clubs but there are only a few time slots available each week for the myriads of performers in our time zone.  Competition is going to happen and it is not possible for all the clubs to sit down and say "Ok I will take the 3am-5am slots, you can take the 6am - 8am slts"  Be real everyone.  regardless of what you are doing to attract people, if you can't get people to your venues then you might have a problem.  It could be you, your venue, your choice of performers etc.  Lets not start blasting other venues all because they might be doing better than you.  Its life and its second life.  **bleep** happens so live with it

[Whisper Ampan]

Reposted in my name ( Husband had logged in to read and didn't sign out lol)

It's good to debate and get different points of view.  My original post  did not identify any particular venue and it is not my intention to make personal jibes especially of unrelated matter. Thank you to those that made constructive comments.  However, I do feel I need to respond to Ariella's personal comments.

 

To help clarify for some the issue:  .

** I have noticed certain venues duplicating postings...anyone who tries to directly duplicate gets the error message and is unable to.  LL does this for a reason...Search is cluttered enough without duplicates.  The only way a venue can make duplicates is using other means to do so ( such as what I stated in the original post).

 

Since Ariella wrote her post identifying her venue I will use that as a case point.  I suggest you search the dolphin club to see what I mean.

There are half hourly posts for each hour of music ( Same performer, same start time, same venue).  LL prevents an event from being posted twice and insists on one category.  That is why if a person attempts to do this in the typical way we post, they are prevented from doing so.  Ariella has found a way around this.  Some may say "well good luck to her" as she is using initiative...but I simply raise the issue that if we all started to do this the events would become an even worse nightmare.  ( although I do share smexymann's frustration when searching just after the hour)... you do have to go back to get the whole picture of what is on so you can choose who you want to see.  One example I saw was this:

  5 PM Singer  A @ Venue ( Live Music)

5PM  am Singer A @ Venue ( Nightlife/entertainment)

5:30 PM Singer A performing  @ Venue   Live Music)

5.30 PM Singer A performing  @ Venue ( Nightlife/entertainment)

That is 4 posts for what is actually one event.

The comment regarding DJ's was not directed at the Dolphin club, in fact it is other clubs who do this ( and  is annoying).

 

2:  I didn't say anything against using alts or other avatars making event posts...my reference to using different avatars was one way to "beat the duplicate system" especially if you wish to post in different categories.  I use an alt ( as I stated in a reply post) to send out my notices and ims...and my hosts have the account details so they can alter event posts if there is a change.

 

3. In my early days, I did attempt not to clash with too many of the early am venues...Most of the owners are friends and we regularly help each other out with names of new singers, hosting and fill-ins.  We have  allowed each other  to use alternate venues if the sim is down.  I  appreciate that support and am glad I do visit  and support other venues.  I set up my days originally NOT to take away from the other venues..naive perhaps, but it was done out of respect for the other venues, to gain a maximum audience for my valued singers ( As the early am is  limited in numbers compared to the later daytime/evening) and enable me to  still get out there and support live performers.  I take exception to the bullying comment. My post was not emotional or vindictive, it was for debate.  The snide catty remarks are childish and unproductive..

4.  The forum  post was made not in fear of competition,  it is great to see a bunch of new performers starting  in the early am and I am enjoying getting out there when I can to see them. It was made to make the competition fair and to highlight an issue in using search for events in the more busy periods.  Other clubs may well do it and I am not saying the Dolphin club is the only one, but it is very noticeable in the early am. It would actually  be worse to contend with multiple postings in the busy times.  Of course I check the postings to see my that our singers are listed correctly.  I also check event posts so to schedule the artist at a favourable time.  It  my role as a venue manager  is to do the best by my singers.  It is a non-profit venue, any venue tips earned go to PAYING the singers.  I pride myself on giving new singers and less well known ones a chance to perform and am very fortunate to have good relationships with many singers and managers.  I consider many  as close friends, as I do many venue owners.  I raise it now as it is a relatively new thing to see in the live music events ( in the early am) and has been a point of of discussion by other  venue owners and performers.

 

I agree  with the point...the audience chooses based on the singer, not the venue.  I am glad I can provide a place for them and I do enjoy it!!  I see raising issues as a sign of my passion to support live music and I believe if no-one does then things won't evolve and change.  If there  has been a breach  or  bending of what is the common etiquette ( if not LL rules) then it should be investigated, debated and evaluated. My goal is to highlight the issue.

 

I too do not wish to 'fight'...never saw the original forum post as doing that. I wish you every success Ariella and it is wonderful that there is another successful venue to support live music.

 

[Lee Helix]

"Other clubs may well do it and I am not saying the Dolphin club is the only one, but it is very noticeable in the early am. It would actually  be worse to contend with multiple postings in the busy times." 

 

You are not saying the Dolphin Club is "the only one" and yet it was The Dolphin Club you abuse reports and not other clubs.