Second life on steam question

[Kitteon Kattun]

I just recently saw that SL will be available soon on steam and I was wondering what it would be rated seeing as to my knowledge, steam does not support AO titles. It's just a topic I kinda got curious about, I'm not saying the world is coming to an end or that SL will make changes or anything like that I'm just interested in hearing opinions on this from people here on the forum. Think of this as a conversation starter? i know that basic SL is just up to about moderate and doesn't alow AO content but the fact that it is there, would that have to make the rating higher?

if you think this is a stupid question, meh, post anyway, flame if you want! =3

[Canoro Philipp]

theres a lot of uncertainty about how SL is gonna work with Steam, on one side, is a product that can be used by people under 18, so if Linden Lab wants to keep that it would have to rate it PG, on the other side, Linden Lab allows adult content, so it would have to be rated R, maybe they will offer two versions of SL?

one of the problems with Second Life is that is extremely unique, it can not be rated as a whole, and while for some is a game, for some is a creativity tool, and for some is a business platform, is very difficult to define, and that bring up another question, how is going to be promoted in steam, as a game? as a productivity tool that looks like a game?

the uniqueness of SL is what makes it difficult to promote.

[Monti Messmer]

Hi, i´m not familiar about ratings and Steam but some of the Games listed on steam are rated 18+ in my country - more about blood and crime than sexual content .

Not sure if that brings more people into SL or if they can add more ways to bring money into SL via Steam payment.

Monti

[Timothy McGregor]

Linden Lab's first order of business is to obtain an actual ESRB rating, which they have hinted at eventually doing after the Teen Grid merger, up until which point there really wasn't any need for a 3rd party rating. They self-policed well enough by aggressively enforcing the grid segregation. 

They likely won't have any difficulty getting a Teen rating from ESRB however, since Linden Lab do not themselves publish adult content with their platform. Any adult content on the grid is user created, which is beyond reach of ESRB's rating system for the most part. They will just need to add a notice concerning user created content and interactions to the various product splashes, probably including log-in.

This move won't kill Zindra, and won't push Adult content off the grid. At most, they will just start getting aggressive about enforcing the segregation rules that already exist, and will have to respond more readily to reports of violations than they have been as of late.  

[JeanneAnne]

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Kitteon Kattun wrote:

I just recently saw that SL will be available soon on steam and I was wondering what it would be rated seeing as to my knowledge, steam does not support AO titles. It's just a topic I kinda got curious about, I'm not saying the world is coming to an end or that SL will make changes or anything like that I'm just interested in hearing opinions on this from people here on the forum. Think of this as a conversation starter? i know that basic SL is just up to about moderate and doesn't alow AO content but the fact that it is there, would that have to make the rating higher?

if you think this is a stupid question, meh, post anyway, flame if you want! =3

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thers an article called "Second Life on Steam: Rod Humble's Hail Mary Pass"? in the Alphaville Herald .. its written by Pixeleen Mistral .. the article addresses issues about SL & Steam .. id post the url but i dont think im supposed to

Jeanne

 

[Timothy McGregor]

There is no rule preventing you posting a link to an external blog, as long as it isn't done as commercial promotion. In this case, it's very relevant to the discussion. Go ahead and post it.

[JeanneAnne]

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Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

There is no rule preventing you posting a link to an external blog, as long as it isn't done as commercial promotion. In this case, it's very relevant to the discussion. Go ahead and post it.

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ok then ... http://alphavilleherald.com/2012/09/sl-in-steam-rod-humbles-hail-mary-pass.html

>>Current Second Life players have greeted the Steam annoucement with some skepticism, wondering  how SL's  wonky user interface, exorbitant land tier fees, dated graphics, questionable customer service, and lack of structure will win over Steam players accustomed to a more polished experience -- <<

Hehee :catlol:

Jeanne

 

[Timothy McGregor]

Eh, I don't think it will be nearly that disastrous. Those in the broader gaming community are already well aware of Second Life, what it is, what its quirks are, and have already taken the decision to either use it or not. If the idea behind publishing on Steam is to broaden the distribution of the platform, and reach into untapped markets, they might see some moderate success but that's it. 

Steam is like an entertainment sotware buffet. I happen to like buffets, for their variety and convenience. But I don't like yams. Displaying a tray of candied yams prominently on the buffet is not going to cause me to put them on my plate. 

[Deja Letov]

I would be curious on the rating as well. According to the ESRB website "User-generated content is not rated by ESRB". But I'm curious since the entire game us user generated how that will be handled. Otherwise, Sl can be judged on nothing more than a bunch of empty grids. of course....could it be rated on the status of the sims (pg, M, Adult). If so, then it would be the highest rating possible, meaning adults.

[Timothy McGregor]

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Deja Letov wrote:

of course....could it be rated on the status of the sims (pg, M, Adult). If so, then it would be the highest rating possible, meaning adults.

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I don't think that would necessarily be true. Linden Lab publishes and markets and promote the platform for 13 and older, and keeps adult content segregated on an adult-only section. Technically I see no reason they couldn't receive a Teen rating.

[Kitteon Kattun]

wow... i didn't expect anyone to understand the question because i didn't really know how to go about asking it, but it looks like everyone kinda got the idea..  :matte-motes-grin:

[Deja Letov]

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Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

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Deja Letov wrote:

of course....could it be rated on the status of the sims (pg, M, Adult). If so, then it would be the highest rating possible, meaning adults.

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I don't think that would necessarily be true. Linden Lab publishes and markets and promote the platform for 13 and older, and keeps adult content segregated on an adult-only section. Technically I see no reason they couldn't receive a Teen rating.

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I agree to a point, but I've been pouring over the esrb website the last day and I don't know which way they will go with this. They don't typically give a different ESRB based on access ratings in a game. It seems to be an overall general rating of the entire system. if you went by "can we keep the kids out of the adult" then sure, teen would work. but if ESRB rates the way they claim to on their website, it would be highest level of content in the game, which would be mature. Guess we will have to see which way they go.

 

[Timothy McGregor]

Well, you have a point. I just don't see them taking a particularly unique approach to rating Second Life, as published by Linden Lab. Yes, it's a unique product, but in terms of content presentation, it has features common to other platforms that enable people to play online and interact with and in a virtual space. Consider the following quote from ESRB's ratings guide:

Online Rating Notice

Online-enabled video games carry the notice "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This notice warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment.

______________

Note the word "maps". That's what they are called in other virtual spaces. In Second Life, we call them "Regions". While it is true that they are all provisioned by Linden Lab, none of the Linden Lab-created content within them is Adult oriented. So I think it could be effectively argued that Zindra is comprised of user-generated maps that happen to contain user-generated Adult content. In the case of private regions rated Adult, I think the argument is strengthened. 

Again, I think the distinction between user-generated and publisher-generated content is key. In the end, they may not be able to successfully argue the case, depending on the attitudes of those persons assigned to do the rating, but I still think there is a strong case to be made for a lower rating than Adult that is consistent with ESRB's published guidelines.

It remains to be seen. In a culture where gratuitous, bloody violence is acceptable material for a 13 year old, but even sexually suggestive material is the ultimate deadly sin, who really knows how this will go? 

[Deja Letov]

True but it's more than just interactions that I'm talking about, even more than just a region where someone else provides content. it's actually a level of access deemed as "adult" in the game SL. Even though SL isn't providing the content, they are giving a direct path to get to that adult section and are governing it to a point with age verfication. my guess would be that in other games where user content is provided such as maps and skins, there aren't specific places they are required to upload for adult maturity and other places for PG material. But I wonder...would they then classify it as 2 separate games or at least 2 separate ESRB ratings based on your subscription? perhaps one minor and one adult (teen versus mature).

[JeanneAnne]

anything less than an Adult rating would be lying

thers Adult content on G sims .. & its uber easy for kids to lie about their age

if Steam rates SL less than A the rating system is meaningless

Jeanne

[Deja Letov]

It's not steam who does ratings. The ESRB is a completely separate entity that assigns content ratings for all video games. Steam will just list what they rate it as. And even with adult content on G sims, that's sort of what we're discussing...the fact that ESRB doesn't typically rate a game based on user created content and all that adult stuff on G sims is user created. That's exactly what we're all kinda speculating about.

[Timothy McGregor]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

anything less than an Adult rating would be lying

thers Adult content on G sims .. & its uber easy for kids to lie about their age

if Steam rates SL less than A the rating system is meaningless

Jeanne

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There isn't a game in existence in the entire Universe that has adult content which isn't "uber easy" for kids to access. Second Life isn't unique in that regard, by any stretch. That would include ESRB rated games currently in the Steam catalog that might contain user-generated Adult content. I think that's probably why ESRB seems to focus on the game publisher's content in determining its rating. 

[Perrie Juran]

Interesting to note, 'downloadable games' self certify, subject to review post release:

In April 2011, the ESRB introduced a streamlined, automated process for assigning ratings for console downloadable games as a way to address the rapidly growing volume of digitally-delivered games.Rather than having raters review each product, publishers of these games complete a series of multiple-choice questions that address content across relevant categories, including violence, sexual content, language, etc. The responses automatically determine the game's rating category and content descriptors. Games rated via this process may be tested post-release to ensure that content was properly disclosed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board

 

Console Download Game Ratings

Games available solely via download through console and handheld storefronts (such as Microsoft Xbox LIVE® Arcade, Nintendo Wii® or DSi™ Shop and Sony PlayStation® Store) are rated using a streamlined rating process. Publishers of these games must complete a series of multiple-choice questions that address content across relevant categories (as described above). The responses to these questions automatically determine the game's rating category and content descriptors, which are issued to the publisher once a DVD reflecting all disclosed content is received by the ESRB. Rating summaries are not available for games rated via this process.

All games rated in this manner are tested by ESRB shortly after they become publicly available to ensure that appropriate ratings have been assigned. In the event content was not fully or accurately disclosed by the publisher, either the rating displayed in the store will be promptly corrected or, in egregious cases, the game may be removed from the store.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_process.jsp

[JeanneAnne]

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Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

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JeanneAnne wrote:

anything less than an Adult rating would be lying

thers Adult content on G sims .. & its uber easy for kids to lie about their age

if Steam rates SL less than A the rating system is meaningless

Jeanne

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There isn't a game in existence in the entire Universe that has adult content which isn't "uber easy" for kids to access. Second Life isn't unique in that regard, by any stretch. That would include ESRB rated games currently in the Steam catalog that might contain user-generated Adult content. I think that's probably why ESRB seems to focus on the game publisher's content in determining its rating. 

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whats the point of having a rating system then ??

Jeanne

 

[Timothy McGregor]

whats the point of having a rating system then ??

To inform consumers about the nature of the content, and to assist parents in making informed parenting decisions. At the end of the day, it is still entirely about being a parent. Ratings systems don't replace that.

[JeanneAnne]

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Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

whats the point of having a rating system then ??

To inform consumers about the nature of the content, and to assist parents in making informed parenting decisions. At the end of the day, it is still entirely about being a parent. Ratings systems don't replace that.

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if it doesnt inform the consumer about user created content then its fraudulent

parents often are @ work when their kids get home from school & get on the computer .. or kids have their own laptops in their bedrooms w/ the doors shut .. or parents are exhausted or drunk or out partying while kids are online .. or parents are just ignorant when it comes to computers compared to their kids .....

so some parent sees a mature rating on a game & tells their kid not to play that game .. so the kid becomes intrigued & the next time the parent isnt looking they lie about their age get an account & start blasting one another or having pixel slex .. great system !! :catlol:

Jeanne

 

[Perrie Juran]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

whats the point of having a rating system then ??

To inform consumers about the nature of the content, and to assist parents in making informed parenting decisions. At the end of the day, it is still entirely about being a parent. Ratings systems don't replace that.

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if it doesnt inform the consumer about user created content then its fraudulent

parents often are @ work when their kids get home from school & get on the computer .. or kids have their own laptops in their bedrooms w/ the doors shut .. or parents are exhausted or drunk or out partying while kids are online .. or parents are just ignorant when it comes to computers compared to their kids .....

so some parent sees a mature rating on a game & tells their kid not to play that game .. so the kid becomes intrigued & the next time the parent isnt looking they lie about their age get an account & start blasting one another or having pixel slex .. great system !! :catlol:

Jeanne

 

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This is why all children should be kept in straight jackets and on a leash and /or in a cage until they are certified to be safe to unleash upon society.

But then again, many of us adults would still be waiting for certification.  I probably would.

My favorite RL T Shirt reads: "I'm Only Disguised As A Responsible Adult."

 

[Timothy McGregor]

if it doesnt inform the consumer about user created content then its fraudulent

To reiterate:

Online Rating Notice

Online-enabled video games carry the notice "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This notice warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment.

[JeanneAnne]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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This is why all children should be kept in straight jackets and on a leash and /or in a cage until they are certified to be safe to unleash upon society.

But then again, many of us adults would still be waiting for certification.  I probably would.

My favorite RL T Shirt reads: "I'm Only Disguised As A Responsible Adult."

 

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i have 2 younger brothers ... i woulduv certainly agreed about keeping them leashed or in strait jackets when they were ltl !!

Jeanne

 

[Russ Moonites]

Ive been a member of SL for a very long time longer than this profile dates. But i won't get into that. I think mainly because there is SOOOOOO MUCH USER CONTENT and that there are COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF ADULT PRODUCTS made by users that this game should be Rated A for Adults. 

Rating it T for teen just doesn't seem to be a good rating weither linden labs created adult content or not. They did not stop the making of adult products.