Toysoldier Thor

So Drake.... What do you suggest the Content Cretors do? I am not sure what stance you are trying to promote. So you are saying that fighting back, protesting, trying to influence LL to see the error of their ways and fix the TOS are all useless bad ideas? Are you suggesting the best thing is to be the Passive SL Resident we often have been and let LL mske these TOS changes and just quietly wait until LL decides to leverage their pirated access to IP holders and leverage it then start the fight? So you believe its best business practice for a IP holder to be reactionary then proactive and force the correction? Please tell us all what you would want all the SL creators should be doing?

We have to assume with the emonous and growing pressure from the SL Content Creators that shows no sign of dying, the spread of blogs and reviews of LL's TOS hi-jack, the content libraries that are banning SL..... and yet LL still is staying completely quite ..... THEY HAVE SOME BIG PLANS and their plans hinge on this TOS Change. Its completely naive for anyone to believe LL's informal non-official posted excuse as THE REASON behind the TOS Change. If this was the only reason, they would not be so stupid to let the SL brand continue to be destroyed in the industry and among creators and not correct the TOS or use their Formal SL Blogs to defend themselves. To me.. as I said way back in the beginning of this thread... they have bigger plans and they need this full access to our cantent as part of their plan. What is mind boggling to me... is if Captain Rodvik and his LL Content Hi-Jacking LL Management Pirates are building a new business model - like an indie game developer platform using our content - whereby a critical compoment of the model is to hi-jack our content based on a TOS that seems to have more legal weaknesses in it than swiss cheese... What a DANGEROUS BUSINESS MODEL for any investor to be brave enough to invest in. As soon as they attempt to hi-jack our content for this Desura platform or what ever it is... I would guess the class action suits will begin to fly as well as DCMAs and other crippling IP Protecting retaliation. So does Captain Rodvik have that much nerve to build a new business model for LL based on a flawed TOS ?? Really?

Sonyamortal wrote: Hi all, I am currently doing a my doctoral research in law on how laws particularly IP laws affect individual creativity. I would be grateful if you allow me to contact you individually at a later date for this purpose. The research is sort to address the very issue of IP rights that both the content providers and the LL are fighting for. You inputs will actually help the regulatory or law makers in the future to decide the legal fate of User Generated Contents and content creators likewise. Thanks for your co-operation. Please reach me at anu.law@gmail.com for sharing your interest in this research. If anyone has any idea as to how I can go about seeking the support of other content providers on this matter pls do share. Thanks! Thanks for the request on my blog and its good you posted your request here in this thread as what you appear to be researching is directly tied to the issues we Content Creators are now having with the platform owner (Linden Lab) that believes they own all rights to our content if uploaded into SL (...even though they say we are still IP Owners). I would repeat the request that Drongle mentioned ... to get a lot of support for your request from us creators, you might want to explain a lot more where you are from and the purpose of your research and who/where it will be published and if we all will see a copy of this. I think the Linden Lab / Content Creators troubled relationship is a posterchild for your research. Just tell us more what you want.

Since the Survey has already reached its 100 respondent max that I can report on, I have replaced the OP messge to this thread to provide the link to the results of the survey. Look at the OP message of this thread to find the link.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Toysoldier Thor wrote: The following link takes you to a place where you can download the PDF transcripts from the September 29th 12 noon SLT Secondlife inworld Emergency Meeting held to talk about the Linden Lab Aug 15 TOS change and what next steps Creators / Artists should do in response. Following is the link to the open public chat transcripts that were captured, compiled, and published http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/transcripts-from-sep-29-sl-inworld-meeting-on-ll-tos-issue.html To play it safe I posted these transcripts on my own blog and not here on the SecondLife forums. So, who ran this discusion and where was is promoted? or was a super secret invite cool kids club only invite, like most of them. So as has been mentioned... this meeting held yesterday inworld was primarily initiated and run by the ARTISTIC community of the overall community of SL Content Creators. I did not create nor call the meeting but as soon as I was told of the details of the event I posted it in this thread as well as the similar thread in the ART PHOTOGRAPHY SL forum thread. Alhough it was short notice, the sim maxed at 40 attendees and there were others outside the sim's border also attending. We posted the transcripts of the meeting so anyone that could not attend this short notice / max out event could at least read the transcripts. As for the Survey that I created.... I didnt post the link to the survey to a single secret group of 32. I posted the link in this thread, a special survey thread in the merchant forums and the thread in the Art/photography forum. I also posted the link in my FB account among my circle of 490 SL friends ... of which many are either merchant/creators or Artists/creators. They in turn shared and spread the news / link of the survey. I also posted it in my Twitter. Because it was a free survey at survey monkey, the max respondent reported back to me is only 100. It will continue to collect responses but I cant see the larger population of responses unless I pay the premium to unlock it. The 100 responses were reached within 24 hours. And you can go to my blog posting to see all the results from the survey.

The Survey that was put out to SL Content Creators via the free version of Survey Monkey has reached its 100 respondent limit. As such, I have compiled the results and observations from this quick survey for you all to analyze. You can see all the results in my blog: http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/secondlife-content-creators-survey-on-linden-lab-tos-issue.html

The Survey that was put out to SL Content Creators via the free version of Survey Monkey has reached its 100 respondent limit. As such, I have compiled the results and observations from this quick survey for you all to analyze. You can see all the results in my blog: http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/secondlife-content-creators-survey-on-linden-lab-tos-issue.html

The Survey that was put out to SL Content Creators via the free version of Survey Monkey has reached its 100 respondent limit. As such, I have compiled the results and observations from this quick survey for you all to analyze. You can see all the results in my blog: http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/secondlife-content-creators-survey-on-linden-lab-tos-issue.html

The following link takes you to a place where you can download the PDF transcripts from the September 29th 12 noon SLT Secondlife inworld Emergency Meeting held to talk about the Linden Lab Aug 15 TOS change and what next steps Creators / Artists should do in response. Following is the link to the open public chat transcripts that were captured, compiled, and published http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/transcripts-from-sep-29-sl-inworld-meeting-on-ll-tos-issue.html To play it safe I posted these transcripts on my own blog and not here on the SecondLife forums.

The following link takes you to a place where you can download the PDF transcripts from the September 29th 12 noon SLT Secondlife inworld Emergency Meeting held to talk about the Linden Lab Aug 15 TOS change and what next steps Creators / Artists should do in response. Following is the link to the open public chat transcripts that were captured, compiled, and published http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/transcripts-from-sep-29-sl-inworld-meeting-on-ll-tos-issue.html

SO I have a question to the crowd. I was at the meeting today as well and I captured the entire transcript of the open public local chat. Before I consider posting it here or on my blog, are there any TOS restrictions that would make it a violation for me to post the open public local chat conversation at the meeting? I mean, I have attended countless LL called open office meetings whereby LL has done the exact thing... i.e. posting all open chat that happened on local. I would think if they are allowed to do it - they would not do something themselves that would violate the TOS they created. But... to be safe... can I or cant I post the local chat transcripts to this meeting?

I am posting an Emergency Meeting event that will be held today (sunday Sep 29) at 12 noon SLT regarding this issue. Here is a copy of the inworld note and all those that are interested in this topic and meeting are invited.... ***** Beginning of Notice / Invite *** The Rose Theatre and Galleries has been an avid supporter of art in Second Life from it's very inception nearly seven years ago. We are deeply concerned about this volatile change in the Second Life Terms of Service, which is an utter break of trust between Linden Labs and all content creators. Ernie Farstrider of EAST-WEST Galleries has offered up his Amphitheater to host a meeting of artists and all content creators to discuss this change, its effects and our consequent response. Please don't think this doesn't affect you because you are a "small" creator. Not my choice of word, but rather some of the responses I've heard. With the loss of Renderocity and CGTextures as resources for textures, we may well be seeing just the beginning of a full-scale protest against Linden Labs for this unconscionable action. When creators and third-party materials providers stop permitting uploads to SL, don't think for a minute that you are not affected. As new work can't be sold, tiers can't be paid. Galleries will close, Stores will close. It is a domino effect. Imagine this. You are invited to display in a real life gallery. You're so incredibly excited and you hang your work on the walls and have your reception and the gallery owner turns to you and says, "Oh, by the way, I own all of your work now. I have full rights to it to do with as I please. It is mine." How would you respond to that? This is precisely what Linden Labs has done. Apathy can spell the end of this world as we know it. Come and be heard. Come and have a voice. Come and be a solution to the problem. ALL content creators are encouraged to attend. Please forward this to your groups. Kylie Addison Sabra, Curator The Rose Theatre & Art Galleries =========================== THE FOLLOWING FROM ERNIE FARSTRIDE WHAT: Special -- "Emergency" -- Discussion Meeting WHY: Second Life Terms of Service (ToS) Changes WHERE: EAST~WEST Amphitheater WHEN: Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:00 (noon) to 1:00 p.m. WHO: Anyone who now or intends to hold and maintain, import, buy, or sell User Content in Second Life. HOW: Principally by written chat. PLEASE: Be prompt and take a seat in the Amphitheater quickly. HOST: Ernie Farstrider, EAST~WEST~NORTH Galleries owner Gallerist http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Georgiana/128/202/28 (take the second door from the right labeled "Amphi")

Posting an Emergency Meeting event that will be held today (sunday Sep 29) at 12 noon SLT regarding this issue. Here is a copy of the inworld note and all those that are interested in this topic and meeting are invited.... ***** Beginning of Notice / Invite *** The Rose Theatre and Galleries has been an avid supporter of art in Second Life from it's very inception nearly seven years ago. We are deeply concerned about this volatile change in the Second Life Terms of Service, which is an utter break of trust between Linden Labs and all content creators. Ernie Farstrider of EAST-WEST Galleries has offered up his Amphitheater to host a meeting of artists and all content creators to discuss this change, its effects and our consequent response. Please don't think this doesn't affect you because you are a "small" creator. Not my choice of word, but rather some of the responses I've heard. With the loss of Renderocity and CGTextures as resources for textures, we may well be seeing just the beginning of a full-scale protest against Linden Labs for this unconscionable action. When creators and third-party materials providers stop permitting uploads to SL, don't think for a minute that you are not affected. As new work can't be sold, tiers can't be paid. Galleries will close, Stores will close. It is a domino effect. Imagine this. You are invited to display in a real life gallery. You're so incredibly excited and you hang your work on the walls and have your reception and the gallery owner turns to you and says, "Oh, by the way, I own all of your work now. I have full rights to it to do with as I please. It is mine." How would you respond to that? This is precisely what Linden Labs has done. Apathy can spell the end of this world as we know it. Come and be heard. Come and have a voice. Come and be a solution to the problem. ALL content creators are encouraged to attend. Please forward this to your groups. Kylie Addison Sabra, Curator The Rose Theatre & Art Galleries =========================== THE FOLLOWING FROM ERNIE FARSTRIDE WHAT: Special -- "Emergency" -- Discussion Meeting WHY: Second Life Terms of Service (ToS) Changes WHERE: EAST~WEST Amphitheater WHEN: Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:00 (noon) to 1:00 p.m. WHO: Anyone who now or intends to hold and maintain, import, buy, or sell User Content in Second Life. HOW: Principally by written chat. PLEASE: Be prompt and take a seat in the Amphitheater quickly. HOST: Ernie Farstrider, EAST~WEST~NORTH Galleries owner Gallerist http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Georgiana/128/202/28 (take the second door from the right labeled "Amphi")

There was an open survey out for any SL Content Creator to fill out. I am changing this OP Message for this thread because the Survey has already reached in max respondents of 100 in less than 24 hours after it was opened. Its still capturing beyond that 100 max but the free version doesnt let me see or report on all the respondents. THE FOLLOWING LINK IS TO A BLOG THAT REPORTS THE SURVEY RESULTS FOR ALL TO REVIEW http://toytalks.weebly.com/1/post/2013/09/secondlife-content-creators-survey-on-linden-lab-tos-issue.html

Toysoldier Thor wrote: A SURVEY TO ALL SECONDLIFE CONTENT CREATORS THAT UPLOAD TO SECONDLIFE (includes all artists) I created a Survey Monkey survey. It asks 6 questions around the topic of Section 2.3 of the Aug 15 TOS change so we can get a more full understanding on how the TOS Change is impacting the Content Creators. You can only do the survey once. You can also post the link to your sphere of fellow content creators / artists. This is a FREE survey so there is a limit of how many responses we can register. Here is the link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7DDP3Z5 I will post the result as soon as the survey is full or in the next several days. AN IMPORTANT NOTE ON THE SURVEY.... I made an error on setting up the survey which I cannot correct now with 45 responses collected.... The OTHER COMMENT will not work unless you click on any of the main option. I forgot to click a critical option button. As such, IF YOU WANTED TO SELECT "OTHER" ... click the option closest to your opinion and then in the comment text, start it with the word.... OTHER OPTION... xxx xx xx xx xx Sorry about that folks - this was my mistake!

Followup to Phoebe.... I looked more closely. I am at fault on the "OTHER". I forgot to click a checkmark called "make other a choice". DAMN! And worse yet - I cant edit that option to enable it or else I will wipe out the entire survey - with all its 45 completed response. The best way to use OTHER is to do what Trinity did.... Click the closest option and then in Comment.... start it as "OTHER - xx xx xx"

Phoebe Avro wrote: the other boxes dont work unless you check one of the answeres Ohh Sorry Phoebe! I assumed on the survey that since I instructed the questions to be "ONLY ONE ANSWER" that if you selected "OTHER" it would be that answer and then the corresponding box for text would work. Did you click the box called "other" and then type text into it? I dont think I can change the survey now - since its active and has already registered a response. The responses to the survey have been excellent so far. In less than 12 hours we already have just under 50 responses. In order for this survey to be more visible among all Merchant / Creators in this forum, I am going to create a new thread in the forum to just mention the survey and I will also post the results into that thread.

Toysoldier Thor wrote: ... Link to Survey of Content Creators gathering their thoughts on the LL TOS ISSUE.... http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7DDP3Z5 I will post the result as soon as the survey is full or in the next several days. Well the survey is getting good number ot responses already for only being a couple hours old. I have also Posted this link to the survey onto Twitter and in my circle of friends in SL's Facebook. The early results are already very consistent. Make sure all of you post this Survey link to your fellow creators / builders / artists / merchants. If we can get ~ 200 responses, that would be great.

A SURVEY TO ALL SECONDLIFE CONTENT CREATORS THAT UPLOAD TO SECONDLIFE (includes all artists) I created a Survey Monkey survey. It asks 6 questions around the topic of Section 2.3 of the Aug 15 TOS change so we can get a more full understanding on how the TOS Change is impacting the Content Creators. You can only do the survey once. You can also post the link to your sphere of fellow content creators / artists. This is a FREE survey so there is a limit of how many responses we can register. Here is the link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7DDP3Z5 I will post the result as soon as the survey is full or in the next several days.

OK LETS MAKE THIS CONTENT CREATORS OPINION SURVEY FAR MORE EASY TO ACCES AND USE. I created a Survey Monkey survey. It asks 6 questions around the topic of Section 2.3 of the Aug 15 TOS change so we can get a more full understanding on how the TOS Change is impacting the Content Creators. You can only do the survey once. You can also post the link to your sphere of fellow content creators / artists. This is a FREE survey so there is a limit of how many responses we can register. Here is the link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7DDP3Z5 I will post the result as soon as the survey is full or in the next several days.

Luna .... That YouTube video was simply stunning and amazing!!!! And I am sure I am picking the symbolism from the video that is the reason you posted it here regarding this topic... The countless small voices can come together to accomplish anything if put together as a harmonized choir. As is the case of the countless small voices of the residents, creators, and artists of SecondLife that can come together and convince Linden Lab to admit the errors of their ways with this TOS Change that is hurting the SecondLife world every minute that it exists. And to demand they correct this critically damaging mistake they have placed upon the SecondLife virtual world we all love and cherish so much. To LL Management... our voices on this issue will not diminsh... like the video... it will get stronger until you address this.

Here is my prediction... just from years of observing hot LL handles their affairs and how they deal with their often major screw-ups in light of the level of protest and anger they generate from their bonehead Management moves. This LL TOS screwup from their Legal Team is ranked up there as one of their bigger ones with a large scope of responding anger and retaliation and counter-measures against LL. LL is the king of making bonehead moves and even when they realize they screwed up - they tend to put their head in the sand and hope that the customer / community anger will die down. If after some period they notice the level of customer anger is growing out of control like a wild fire and spreading into the larger online community... they then start the slow plan to fix the problem or back out of what they screwed up. Their first painly embarrasing move is to try and explain or apologize without blaming themselves. Well, we all know they have done that - off their official communication channels. Likely this was as per recommendation from their bonehead legal team (dont apologize and blame ourselves and dont post on out official channels). Then they hope this will quell the anger. Well, as Rodvik and Sr Management have realized... it did nothing. In fact it further angered their users as a back handed slap in the face AND it did not resolve the core to the issue. Now that they see major 3rd party players are banning them... and that the anger has started going viral among all the SL userbase community... and that creators have pulled out content and stopped pushing up new content.... LL has to do something they DREAD DOING.... they will soon be formally announcing a new CORRECTED TOS. LL will not call this new revised TOS a fix to the problem we all have been so angry about. They will just quietly refer to it as a new TOS revision. LL Management not only are slow and dont like listening to their users... but they HATE to admit they screwed up. so they will downplay this new TOS. This downplay of their mistake to sneak in their correction is yet another mistake they will make. Why? Because they have stirred up such anger out in the community that they need to send the message out LOUD AND CLEAR that... "We made a mistake. We apologize to all our Creator User community. We have heard you all and we have taken clear and strong measures to address what we admit was wrong in the wording of our Aug 15th TOS." They need to do this in hopes that they get the message out and ease the fears and anger they generated among their critical SL content creators. They need to hope that those that banned SL will bring down their bans. Anyway... i suspect in the next 7 days we will see a new TOS from LL as Rodvik has likely kicked his legal team and told them to CLEAN THIS UP NOW ! So they are working on a new TOS that is good for release. Lets see if I am right.

Freya Mokusei wrote: That's great. Here's the TL;DR version: Hi,Sorry.Bye. Another closed case! Wooo~ Yes I know that submitting a support ticket to LL was a futile effort in the sense that no one from LL Support was going to say "ohh yes sorry sir, let my go and change the TOS back to the way you liked it", BUT..... There are a few important reasons behind me formally submitting a ticket with LL expressing my disagreement with this recent TOS: I now have a formally documented case with the owners of the TOS (LL) that expressed my disagreement with the specific Section of their TOS of which they have now acknowledged the ticket, responded, and closed it. If in the future any civil or legal actions are required, I can at least bring forward evidence that I did not agree to this section of the TOS but I was forced to agree to the section & TOS under duress in order to continue to have access to my content and investments within the SecondLife grid. Since Rodvik decided last year to remove our own public community place to formally express our technical concerns about an aspect of SecondLife - i.e. LL's Gagging of the Resident JIRA, they have forced us to use their Support Ticket System as our only avenue. Unlike these SL Forums where we can all post our anger, disagreement, fears, frustrations about LL's recent draconian TOS Change that can easily be (and mostly is) completely ignored by all LL staff, they cannot as easily ignore the submission of Support Tickets. Even if they respond back with useless "sorry but cant help you on this one" responses and close it, the ticket is now official and within the visibility of LL's statistics. If all us creators and artists were to submit our own similar ticket, then this issue will start bubbling up on their internal support systems statistics as a large and growing issue that LL's more senior staff would have to deal with. So again, I would recommend for the reasons stated above that each creator / artist that is concerned about LL's recent TOS changes should create a ticket with LL to formally express your concerns with them and what you would like them to do in order to address this concern,

I posted my support ticket with LL yesterday under "ACCOUNT HAS BEEN COMPROMISED". I have received a case response : Case: 01770523Avatar: Toysoldier Thor Type: Marketplace Listing IssuesStatus: Waiting for Customer Acceptance Hello Toysoldier Thor,Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support. I am sorry to hear you have some issues with your items Unfortunately, I cannot have the Terms of Service changed at this time. Your concerns will be forwarded to superiors for review though. Please feel free to file a new support case in the future should you need additional assistance from Linden Lab Support.Best Wishesxxx xxxLinden Lab Support

And to know that this latest TOS change from LL is being considered as a dangerous / risky threat to content creators... Not only has CGTextures banned their users from allowing their content to enter SecondLife, as of yesterday, Renderosity has also officially taken risk mitigation actions directly against SecondLife's new TOS... they have also banned their users from uploading any Renderosity content into the SL Grid. http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=16783