Solar Legion
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Posts posted by Solar Legion
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And no one here has to come up with a single ting for you Phil - that's for you to do.
No one here is "keen" on anythjing - we've simply been explaining to you how the real world works (started doing so shortly after you claimed that no country can enforce its laws across international borders ... that alone is a false statement and has already proven to be such).
Are such things the only way? Nope!
Is anyone here required to go tracking down every little shred of law and present it to you until you understand? No.
Better things to do - one of the reasons I've stopped being s polite.
You can further waste everyone's time ... or, if you truly want to know, you can do the homework yourself.
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Get over it Phil - reality does not work the way you want it to - period. It's been explained countless times to you, and each time it is, you stick your fingers in your ears and demand that everyone do legwork that they have no reason to do.
The facts have been laid out on the table for you. Enough is well and truly enough. Being utterly daft is not an excuse to cling to an opinion that has already been proven to be utterly wrong by the mere fact that this is how international businesses operate.
You want the exact agreements and treaties? Find them yourself.
It is enough that everyone else knows they bloody well exist.
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Syo Emerald wrote:Pussycat Catnap wrote:Syo Emerald wrote:I disagree that you can't judge someone by the avatar.My you can't but I can pretty clear get a lot information from someones avatar. When I see their profile I already have enough to know if I better avoid them or not.
That's the profile though. Not the avatar.
ANd I've even found my assumptions about someone based on their profile to be wrong once I was stuck in a situation dealing with them. But the profile is a better indicator than the avatar. Some people's avatar choices annoy me - others draw me in; but I've learned to realize that its not as reflective of who they are than I would have thought.Most of the time both (profile and avatar) match, but often the avatar can give a great hint on what kind of person you are running into.There we have the "Non careing male newbie-look a like", who can be here for ages but still looks like he wandered out of some freebiestore around 2007. Mostly is profile isn't even filled out a bit and his attempt to chat start with "hi", a long silence following...if you have are on a adult sim he then starts to hit on you.Then we have the invisible pony rider girl with a fish face. This kind of avatar has turned out to be quite popular among a specific kind of user. If they wear clothes they only wear mesh. Hair is from Magika or a similar brand, also only mesh. They often gatter in a specific kind of club and spend their time dancing and spamming gestures. If you open their profiles you can easily spot a use of odd fonts, mean blablabla and at least one sentence that underlines how great they are.And that are only two examples.Oh and speaking about tolerance here.....SL will never and was never a place of tolerance, especially when it comes to all that is not human. You can look like an hoe on crack, but don't you dare to wear a tail or anything else not human! Then you are not allowed in ballrooms, not allowed on roleplay sims, not allowed on many adult sims.....Oh, and nobody will hire you anywhere for anything!
Boy, you've had a rough run there! I've not had many issues with people being intolerant of my own appearance choices .... and mine run the gamut! Most of the time though, I am to be found in one Anthro form or another .... Never had an issue with getting a job, being on sims ..... There's even a few "ballwoom" type places that don't mind one bit!That said .... my advice to new users? That's a start: You're a user, not a resident.
Most of the rest has already been covered here .... though I'd tell a new user not to judge anyone by their appearance or by their profile or by the way they post in the forums. Base it on how they act while logged in.
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Phil Deakins wrote:Solar Legion wrote:Phil -they can, and do all the time under trade agreements. End of story.Reality is what it is - you don't like the reality, and that's perfectly fine.Stop presenting your view as if it is a fact.It's been explained to you numerous times and in a rather polite manner by several people.I'mnot going to be polite any further.Engough is enough.
What trade agreements? I already said that it would be different to what I'm saying if a trade agreement for U.S. companies to collect VAT existed between the U.S. and the EU, but where is it?You say that it's been explained it to me numerous times but it hasn't. The idea of a trade agreement has been mention quite a few times and I've agreed that it would be different if one exists, but, unless one actually exists - so that U.S. companies must collect VAT from EU customers - then it's just been nothing more than possibility and imagination. So show me this trade agreement. If you can't, I'll continue to believe that no such agreement exists and that what I've been saying is true.Incidentally, if no such agreement exists, then what I'm saying about one country imposing laws and rules on other countries IS fact. So show me the trade agreement or accept that you've either been mistaken all along, or you just don't know one way or the other.ETA: There's no reason for to you become impolite. It's no good getting nasty with someone just because they don't agree with you. Nobody is always right, including you. Anyone doing that just shows themselves up. Either continue to discuss politely, or discontinue, but don't become impolite when someone doesn't agree with you. In this case, if you can't show a trade agreement, then you've lost the discussion anyway, so becoming impolite would be really silly.If you had bothered to actually read what others have said, you'd not be asking me "what trade agreements". Go back, read. I'm not going to do your legwork (and reading comprehension brush up) for you.
And yes, there is a need to be impolite atthis point. You're plugging up your ears and saying "lalalalalalala".
Enough. Linden Lab collexts VAT - if there were no laws being influenced by trade agreements and other coalitions (which have been linked in by others earlier in this bloody thread) then Linden Lab would not be collecting it anymore. Honestly ... if they could get out of it, they would have by now.
It is that simple. Linden Lab has shown they're not going to do any more than hte bare minimum when it comes to covering themselves in any given legal situation. The moment collecting VAT becomes "voluntary" - they'll cease collection. They will have no reason to collect it anymore, seeing as any that is collected leaves their pockets at once.
Frankly, I'm rather sick and tired of people making assu,ptions concerning the enforcement of laws from one country to the next. The simple fact is this: It happens all the time. If you have an issue with it, take it up with the UN.
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Phil - they can, and do all the time under trade agreements. End of story.
Reality is what it is - you don't like the reality, and that's perfectly fine.
Stop presenting your view as if it is a fact.
It's been explained to you numerous times and in a rather polite manner by several people.
I'm not going to be polite any further.
Engough is enough.
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Coby Foden wrote:Solar Legion wrote:To sum all of ths up for those catching up: Yes, Linden Lab is required to collect VAT. No - saying over and over again that it is a choice does not make such an opinion the truth ...Bottom line: LL collects VAT - end of story.
I tend to agree after reading this:For the non-EU supplier whose EU customers are non-business individuals or organisations, there will now be an obligation to charge and account for VAT on these sales just as EU suppliers have to do....... the changes that the new Directive will introduce will bring the EU VAT system into line with agreed OECD principles on taxation of e-commerce and rectify a fundamental competitive inequity that today operates to the detriment of European based e-business.The OECD principles on the taxation of e-commerce were agreed at a 1998 conference in Ottawa. These principles establish that the rules for consumption taxes (such as VAT) should result in taxation in the jurisdiction where consumption takes place. The OECD also agreed that a simplified online registration scheme, as now adopted by the Council, is the only viable option today for applying taxes to e-commerce sales by non-resident traders to private consumers (so-called B2C). This is exactly what is now being implemented in the EU - initially for a three-year period which can then be renewed or refined as developments dictate....• Won't the Directive be difficult, if not impossible, to implement?This view is at odds with conclusions currently being reached by OECD countries in a process that includes substantial business involvement. It can only be seen as representing the position of a business sector that is fundamentally "anti-tax" and simply does not want to see VAT imposed on e-commerce in any shape or form.The VAT system is based on voluntary compliance and this tradition will continue. The reality is that legitimate business will want to operate within the law and satisfy audit obligations to ensure that their commercial rights are respected. Legitimate operators certainly do not want to give credence to the idea that Internet is a zone where laws do not apply - the role of voluntary compliance should not therefore be underestimated.[uNQUOTE]The idea of the VAT is to put businesses (EU and non-EU) in the same competetive line. Not giving advantage to neither. Example: Two companies 1. EU company 2. Non EU company. Both sell similar electronic services. It would not be fair if the non EU company could sell their product without VAT to customers whereas the EU company would have to add the VAT to their prices.Concerning Second Life: I see this as a special case, because the residents create content inside it. It is global. Now those who live in EU are in disadvantage compared to other residents. If EU resident buys region in SL, establishes shop to sell products they have higher cost doing it than non EU residents do. This is in contradiction with EU VAT taxation principle [to put all in the same competetive line]. Therefore, in my mind EU should make Second Life exempt from the VAT.Indeed. A simplified way of explaining it to anyone that still thinks Linden Lab actually has a choice in the matter could also be used ...
Now granted, this is a personal example but the general principle holds true on an international scale - I have an account with Blizzard and pay for a WoW subscription. I live in a state that does not charge sales tax for digital content/subscriptions but the state my bank is in, does. Instead of paying the 14.99 for a standard monthly subscription ... I pay 16.04. My place of residence doesn't matter - it's where my bank is located that determines this.
The same holds true for international business/imports or all goods - with few exceptions (and a few more complexities thrown in for good measure).
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Phil - I've already said it once: Repeating your opinion on the matter doesn't change reality. You've been shown by others already that they are required by some of the EU countries their customers are in to collect VAT. That's the reality and nothing's going to change it.
If no other countries had to abide by the laws of any other country .... The US could not enforce its copyright laws anywhere else nor could we use "Human Rights" as a reason for military action anywhere in the world.
Sorry, that's the real world for you.
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To sum all of ths up for those catching up: Yes, Linden Lab is required to collect VAT. No - saying over and over again that it is a choice does not make such an opinion the truth ...
And quite frankly the idea that a country cannot force other countries to abide by their own laws/rules went out the window the first time the US (and any other UN country) invaded any other country over Human Rights violatilons ... Oh, and lets not forget the recent actions over the last decade where copyright is concerned (spurred on by RIAA/MPAA).
Bottom line: LL collects VAT - end of story.
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Deltango Vale wrote:You didn't read the article either. I challenge people to actually read the article.
I challenge you to accept that people can have a dissenting opinion.
Here's your clue: Linden Lab isnt going to alter their prices to make it any easier on those who have to pay VAT - they are not the ones demanding it be paid either.
You want to complain? Complain to the right source.
Until then?
Either accept that people have a differing opinion .... or keep quiet.
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I went Premium at a point in time where I could no longer afford shopping around for private island land that was "affordable" while still finding a landlord that would be around in three months time.
I am at a point where I can now afford the 24/25 bucks a month to rent the over 8k meters of land that I do use ... while maintaining the Premium account and Linden Home as a backup in case the fit hits the shan.
All that said ... the way I decorate, even using lower prim items, I still ened the prim limit afforded by the far larger parcels to gain the effect I am looking for. This is in addition to being a nice guy and maintaining a skyboxish guest house for friends to use as well as a smallish build platform to preview items.
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The makers of SAM have a Winamp DSP that works very well - I used it myself when I still had the time to DJ. Downside is ... it's not free. You'll have to purchase a lisence.
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I'm only going to say this once ...
The button you are raging over simply looks up positional data and inputs it into a far more standard teleport command which functions similarly to standard warp teleport arrays. They don't ask for your permission nor should they.
Sorry - the function was aded in as a means to aid estate managers, group security for malls/clubs and other cases where the ability to teleport to the exact coordinates of a paticular avatar far outweighs the issues you're facing. Someone griefing an estate or any other venue isn't going to grant permission to be teleported to.
The function is here to stay as it is presently implemented. Take measures to counteract those who abuse it and move on.
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Hugsy Penguin wrote:
Solar Legion wrote:
You've got some pretty faulty information there Hugsy: There is no such setting to block the visibility of prims on a parcel. You can disable the rendering of avatars to those outside the parcel ... but you cannot disable the rendering of prims using the land settings.
I didn't say there was a setting. I said "On private estates, owners can restrict access". I was talking about the same as you when you said at the end of your post "Anyone who wants more privacy than that ... can go buy a sim and utterly lock it down."
Solar Legion wrote:
What has been talked about is altering the server code to distinguish between users who have full access to the parcel and users who only have pass through access and then using that distinction to determine parcel presences prior to sending any data.
What's being talked about is preventing people outside the ban line volume from seeing the avatar/chat when that option is enabled. This is not impossible. Those who actually have access to the code can determine whether you simply need to check Z-coords in some conditionals or if a lag-inducing convoluted mess needs to be added. If the latter is the case, it's time to clean up the code anyway. Either way, stopping avatar/chat data from being sent to another avatar is not rocket science.
Solar Legion wrote:
Gee - you want more lag Hugsy?
Yes. I always order extra MSG with my Chinese food. LOL
No Hugsy - what is being talked about is alterng the present flagging system - which is parcel based - into a system designed to determine who does and does not have total access to that parcel. Not being able to see/chat with other users on that "parcel" is a setting which - rightly - affects the entire parcel.
If you need more privacy than that, you need to go rent a sim server from Linden Lab.
There isn't any need to add lag into the system by making the server determine who has full access and who has pass-through access for those flags. No, it wouldn't be as simple as adding in a calculation of the Z coordinates. You'd need to be able to tell if the user traveling through the parcel is a part of the land group or not (which it already does when the land is set to group only), then determine height .... and somehow get the system to believe that the user passing through isn't actually 'on'/'in' the parcel!
A recoding job - possibly quite large - all for something that the average user doesn't need or want.
If they're not "on" or "in" the parcel, they don't see the local chat, they don't see the users on that parcel. If they're passing through in the 'air' .... They're still in that lovely little region of server code that denotes that particular parcel! Now they can see and hear if they so desire!
Functioning just as is was intended to function!
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Perrie Juran wrote:For someone to say or think it's just a coding issue is kind of simplistic.If coding was always so simple we'd all be doing it.And the more complex the system is the more complex the coding can be because the more the domino effect comes into play.Like "true on line status." There are a number of ways to find out it someone is In World or not because there are other functions that have to know that you are logged in that are viewable to anyone. And to truly function completely, when you mark your self online your Avatar would need to be made invisible to those you didn't want to know. Ever run into someone who had marked you offline in a club or elsewhere?Someone mentioned stopping people from seeing 'prims' that are on your parcel.Well first you have to set a default behavior and then the exceptions.Default 1. No one sees anything on your parcel except those you allow. Well, SL already looks barren enough as is. Do you really want to see an empty barren World every where you go?Default 2. Everyone sees everything on your parcel except those you disallow. Can you imagine the Sever load as it tries to segregate who can see what, when and where?So when it comes to Parcel Privacy, my guess is it is a more complex issue to achieve than just a simple bit of coding. The default is that everyone can see your Avatar and now we have to tell the Sever not to broadcast your image outside of a specific parameter. That is probably complex enough with out adding any thing more to the equation.
And the Martian gets it!
Thanks Perrie.
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Hugsy Penguin wrote:
Look. The kind of privacy that's being talked about here already exists in SL in a way that affords even more privacy. On private estates, owners can restrict access which not only keeps avatars out, but their cameras too. When blocked, you can't see the avatars, their chat, or even the prims that exist there. I'm sure more people than you think use that feature.
Regarding the specific enhancement to block avatar and chat visibility within the ban line volume on the mainland, where are you getting that this is “impossible”? A true software engineer, will look for solutions to problems presented by management/customers – not whine about how it can't be done...and no, it's not impossible to do.
You've got some pretty faulty information there Hugsy: There is no such setting to block the visibility of prims on a parcel. You can disable the rendering of avatars to those outside the parcel ... but you cannot disable the rendering of prims using the land settings.
The "kind of privacy" that is being talked about goes above and beyond what is presently in the clients or even the server code. At the time these features were implimented, the only thing which went to the build limit consisted of explicit ban lines (ban lines generated to those actually in the parcel blacklist). All other users could still overfly a parcel. This meant that - gasp! - unless explicitly banned, other avatars could still be seen as "on" the parcel by the server code!
What has been talked about is altering the server code to distinguish between users who have full access to the parcel and users who only have pass through access and then using that distinction to determine parcel presences prior to sending any data.
Gee - you want more lag Hugsy?
There's nothing wrong with the present system - for the average user, there is more than enough "privacy". Anyone who wants more privacy than that ... can go buy a sim and utterly lock it down.
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If we had greater functionality/more roles ... I could re-deed the land I am renting (private island) to my original RP group and turn it into a mixed RP/OOC group ... as I had originally intended to do in the first place!
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Call me old fashioned but ....
Until Microsoft comes out with an OS based more off of XP's setup (and I hear that it is in the works .... they had enough gamers that hated Vista/7 that they finally decided to listen to them), I do not have any plans to use Vista/7 or a 64 bit OS. 32 bit applications sometimes have a fit when being run on such a system.
The revelation that SL does not properly use Crossfire or SLI type setups does change my desired build a bit however ...
I have applications either directly loaded onto my 1TB external Western Digital HDD or their installers which pitch a bloody fit if one tries to use them on a 64vit OS - this is yet another factor for me. There are no 64bit equivalent programs/versions for these applications as well.
Chief among these ... the application and setup I used for DJing (I don't DJ much these days as, so far as I am aware, the plugin for Mic input into the stream does not accept USB setups for headsets) absolutely hates 64vit OSes. It will crash when I go to close it and lose my settings. And no - I won't use SAM as my music library is not exclusively mp3.
A 64bit OS is ideal for some of my other gaming needs ... but again, it would hamper other applications.
Build around your needs ... that's all I can offer.
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Czari Zenovka wrote:I received what I considered a somewhat strange group notice today. It was from a well-known and reputable SL school and said to not use TPVs because (paraphrased) a lot of people are getting hacked. It went on to give some suggestions of what to disable, etc. for greater security but again stated that TPVs are not as "secure."If this had come from a random person in, for example, a hunt group, I would have dismissed it as one person's opinion. Considering the group through which this came, I give it a bit more credence but, having not heard of or read on the forums about any widespread hacking, thought I would bring it here to see if anyone else received the notice and/or any thoughts on this.I personally love the TPV I use and, thus far, have never had any hacking issues. For that matter, I began using the Nicholaz viewer back in 2008 until it stopped new releases after SL v2 came out.
Honestly it just reminds me far too much of the "Official Client or No Access" crowd's tactics and views. No client is safe from being "hacked" in one manner or another since the advent of MOAP. The base log in information is still processed by Linden Lab servers .... and yes, there are client programs out there with code hidden in them that redirects this information through a secondary server. Linden Lab had no issue with this in the past so long as that server's data was temporary storage only (the data vanished the second it was sent off to the Lab servers).
There are also some out there whose code redirects to a secondary server system for storage/access (dedicated griefer client builds). These types, however, are generally used by those who fully intended to share account access across their groups. It's how a lot of these teams function on other services as well - each account would have more than one person who has access.
To treat all Third Party Clients as if they are the same as these specialty builds however .... is insane and shows a level of ignorance that would take quite a bit to counter.
I myself use a Third Party Client .... and have had no issues.
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No dear - I don't promote its ideologies.
We're done here, seeing as you cannot respond without flat out lying through your fingers at each and every turn
Indeed, your response this time is full of nothing but the same half-truths that have been spouted time and time again by those willing to buy into the fiction that one extreme - YOUR extreme - is better than another.
Your fantasy world does not exist Medhue. It never has, it never will and until you're willing to be honest and stick to facts (such as the fact that there is only so much gold in the world and any currency based upon it would thus be finite) ...
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Medhue Simoni wrote:Yeah, I can opt out, but what happens to my children, or my nephews and nieces. I can understand and do what I can to not feed into the evil. In my life, I have watched socialism progress. Today, is bad. How will it be when I die, and my child is left to deal with what I sat back and left him. I don't seak freedom for myself, as I am rational enough to understand that I will never see it. Enslaving my child for the comfort of not debating and being prosecuted by the masses, I won't except that. If only my great grandchild is around to see true freedom, then it will be worth all the debates in the world.
"True freedom" is a myth.
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Medhue Simoni wrote:It's not every man for himself. People give to charities now that feed the majority of people. Gov Assistance barely pays for housing, which is only expensive because of property taxes. The poor end up paying for other people's kids to goto school, as well as other taxes that don't benefit them at all. Without all the gov bureaucracies, we'd all have more money to help out also. Many people can't help as they spend all their money paying for gov BS. When you take away all that, then people don't have to work as much and can also help others more. The people that need help would be much better off with the community helping, not some stranger that will likely abuse them more.If all you can think about is the problems more freedom will bring, you will blind yourself to new creative solutions that benefit every1. Imagine we are back before the U.S. Civil War, and people are discussing freeing all the slaves. I can imagine the arguments. Who will pick the cotton? Do you think any1 could imagine 1 guy sitting on a machine that picks all the crops for them? The important part was that it is immoral to have slaves, just as it is immoral to steal from some people to give to others. We imagine that the money is only stolen from the rich, but we know that is not true. The money is stolen from every1, even the poor.I never said we should wake up tomorrow and change everything. Things happen over time, just as it took well over a century to tax us to death. 100 years ago there was no income tax in the U.S. Only 40 years ago, we could trade in dollars for gold. Today that gold is $1800 an ounce. Again, it takes time to change things, and attitudes. The point is that we can start now moving society back into a more moral society, instead of 1 that is completely and utterly immoral.You say society has alot of growing to do. I say that the only reason we are were we are is because of the propaganda, which lures people away for the truth of the situation. Plus, if you have not noticed, we can not continue on the road we are on. That's a fact which is indisputable. If we do continue like this, people will die, in massive amounts when the whole system collapses. So, the question is, which would you prefer, more freedom and less gov, or massive genocide? You can't balance the books with socialism. Freedom provides real solutions and benefits every1. You aren't going to see free sustainable energy with gov. It doesn't have the incentives to do so. This applies to every field, not just energy. Gov's incentive is to continue along the road until total control, and it won't stop unless people start to wake up.I'd rather have the psychopaths low on the totem pole where they only kill a few people here or there before they are taken out for good, instead of the head of our govs where they can kill millions.
I think it's time to correct you on a few of your talking points:
First and foremost is this - nowhere have I espoused any ideas concerning Socialism. You'd do well to drop that line of reasoning with me as of your first response. I sau exactly what I mean, unlike many.
Second - The people who give to charities out of the goodness of their hearts and a true desire to help are few and far between. The majority do so because it makes them feel good, is a tax reduction and in the end reason that doing so is in their best interests ... Such people do not truly care about others.
Third - You seem to have a bone to pick with government in general. That is understandable. You are, however, letting it blind you wholly to the function government serves. That function is, optimally, to ensure that everyone is treated equally and to prevent the problems of humanity from getting out of hand.
Fourth - The Gpld Standard you mention cannot be properly enforced. If you think it can, there is no further need to discuss this as you truly are too starry eyed for reality.
Fifth - Freedom comes with responsibilities. Those responsibilities cannot be handled by the general populace alone. We tried a bit less government for eight years in some sectors and look what happened near the end of those eight years! Regulation is a must.
Sixth - People cause Genocide, just ask the natives who were here before us. At the time of colonization, this part of North America had the smallest government possible. So small it could barely be called a government. The Monarchy did not order or cause the atrocities which occured ... the populace here did.
Seventh - You are confusing the corruptors with those they corrupt. Your example concerning energy? Talk to the power companies, the oil, coal and gas industries about that one. They're the ones who have no incentive to allow renewable energy sources. And no energy source is "free" ... There is always a cost somewhere.
Eighth - The freedom of the slaves had nothing whatsoever to do with morality. After all, there were - and still are - people who believe that keeping slaves is moral.
Ninth - The idea that we'd all have more money with less government is absurd. No matter which way you slice it, the only way for us t have more money is to get on the ball and find a balance somewhere. Less government means foewer regulations ... and that opens the door for the greedy to come in and do what they do so well. More government follows a similar path ... the type dictated by whomever can control said government.
Tenth - Your prior example of Rome? More starry eyed nonsense. Rome had regulations and they had a government that was only slightly less involved with running things than we have today.
Eleventh - I stand for balance, Med. Human nature precludes the sucess of pure socialism and pure capitalism. Lets look at the issue of the environment for example shall we? Under a perfect, purely capitalist system, all things would be seen as resources and assets which we would be fools to damage/destroy. we would have no need for environmental regulations because no sane businessman would dare to destroy his assets. Enter Human Nature. CEO and board of Dave's Energy Incorporated gets greedy ... They begin to cut corners so they can save a buck here and there. those corners eventually become glaring holes in their environmental policies. By the time someone is able to stop them ... it's too late. The damage is done and all one can do is regulate the industry to prevent it from happening again.
I've been in the lowest of the low areas of the population you believe will be best served by the community. There is nowhere near enough in the community to help or support those in need until they can get back on their feet. No amount of deregulation or downsizing of the government will solve that.
The fact of the matter is that, while I do not like the way the government has been going, it is still necessary. Many of the programs that some view as "socialist" are viewed as such thanks to the half-truths being spread by those it affects the most, spread by those whose greed know no bounds.
no single system can stand on its own - ever. In order to move forward and grow, we need a balanced system. Anything less and we fail.
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Medhue Simoni wrote:I think you misunderstand my position, and I think I can see why.I do not think all people are good. I do think most are good, or want to be good and respected. There are obviously some psychopaths, and some that think they are working for the good of all. The problem that I see with the world, is that as more and more governments become more and more socialist, those psychopaths will gravitate to government, as they can have the ultimate control there. Governements give the crazy people a place to do their bidding. If governments only stuck to their core purpose, which in the states is define by the original constitution, and not allowed to make new "laws", then they would have limited control over the masses. Over time, under these conditions, I feel that people would realize that they have no real use for government and we would live in a world that would most resemble eden. Nothing can make a perfect world. We could get very close, but only when we drop the notion that we are allowed to control other people with force.
Therein we run into several problems ... Humans being what we are, if the bulk of the laws on the books were to vanish we would have people who believe they can do whatever they please. This even factors in leaving basic laws concerning treatment of people in place.
As I've said to Social Darwinists in the past (and no, I don't quite think you are one, the principle is still the same however): When we cease to ensure that the smallest and weakest of us is cared for and has a chance to have a life, when we remove all the nets and the regulations, what we are left with is a society that glorifies the "every man for himself" philosophy. The cooperation which ensues in such an instance is half-hearted. It exists only to further serve the individual in getting what they want.
I am very much opposed to such a system Med ... I've seen what can happen under such a system in more minor ways.
We have a lot of growing to do as a species before we're capable of creating the world you believe in - the "psychopaths" of the world don't need to be in positions of power to cause trouble, they can do such quite well from the lowest positions on the totem pole.
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Medhue Simoni wrote:There is no doubt that I'm an idealist, but this doesn't mean that I'm without reasoning. You could consider me the biggest anti corporation person, many people have ever met. I see the things they engage in and it sickens me. This is why I believe in the free market, as it seems to me to be the only way to reign them in.I believe in the Free Market because it is intellectually honest and without coersion. It has faith in people and what each can achieve by their own brilliant acts. It makes no sense to believe in the government, as it is only a group of individuals. Governments are force, and i do not believe it is right for any1 or any 1 group to be able to dictate to another what is right or wrong. All people can come to common notions of what is right and wrong, as it is in every1's interest to do so. Everything else is coersion. When people are left to solve their problems on their own, the end results will almost always be that which does not produce harm to either. Each party is forced to come to a common understanding. It is only government that can produce wars that will kill millions, or allow 1 side to stand firm, to the point of mass deaths.Oh, you bet I'm an idealist, and hopefully I will stay this way until the day I die.
Now we are getting somewhere Med. we are agreed in some ways in terms of corporate greed .... Where we differ comes from our own experiences and how we see the world. You believe that people can create and sustain such a market, this means you believe people to be "good" at their base.
I don't. Humans as a whole are capable of atrocities which simply cannot be laid solely at the feet of corporations or governments ... or even institutions of faith! All of thse have a common element: People.
Humans are truly no different than the other animals on this planet when you delve into our base natures. We only cooperate because it behooves us to do so to survive. The instant we feel that such cooperation is no longer required ... we shift to our basest natures and seek only to better our own, individual positions.
There is a difference between believing in government and believing that government is a required evil. I am the latter Med. I don't like the way governments are so easily corrupted but let's be real here for a moment hmm? We've seen throughout human history what happens when government is removed from the equation ... it is not pretty.
Like I said ... in a perfect world, your ideals would work very well. We don't live in a perfect world. Humanity has a lot of growing to do before we have even a hope of meeting the ideals you have. At our present rate? I put that time around the day Sol consumes the Earth.
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Medhue Simoni wrote:You can choose to dismiss whatever you want. It will be at your own demise.Thanks for tossing up the lemon of history, as it is quite easy to hit this 1 out of the park. History does not have large examples of Free Markets. The closest thing to large Free Markets in history, would be 2 of the most successful empires the world has ever seen. Those would be the Roman empire and the USA. In both situations, they started out with mostly Free Markets. Over time, both empires got more and more socialist. At the time of the Roman Empires collapse, they were an extreme example of the corruptions of socialism. The same thing is happening here in the States, and as we creep closer and closer to total socialism, we can see better and better the collapse coming.The only thing that can save the world, has nothing to do with forcing any1 to do anything, which always leads to wars and death. The free exchange between people, which is the concept of Free Markets, without any top down coersion, is the only way to save the world from the tyrants that think they can control the masses.
Hmm, and you use the same tactic I have always seen in those whose starry eyed idealism blind them to everything else: Any time someone brings human history into the equation where it concerns human nature, you try to bat it away with the lack of truly free markets for comparison in said history.
It doesn't work that way Med.
You want to "hit it out of the park"? You can do so by sticking to human nature and finding ways to prove that humans are "good" at their core. Going off on a tangent like you did just serves to weaken your position and enforces the notion that you're an idealist.
I don't like corporatins much myself, nor do I like the level of corruption within any government that is required to allow these corporations to have their way. I do not - however - delude myself into thinking that some mythical "free market" (which, as described can only exist in a perfect world) would solve these problems.
Boy, you've had a rough run there! I've not had many issues with people being intolerant of my own appearance choices .... and mine run the gamut! Most of the time though, I am to be found in one Anthro form or another .... Never had an issue with getting a job, being on sims ..... There's even a few "ballwoom" type places that don't mind one bit!
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Now you're really starting to piss me the heck off Phil. I'm not telling you to disprove anything. I'm telling you to do your own frelling homework.
You want to know which specific documents affect international commerce of a specific type? Go. Look. It. Up. Yourself.
I have done nothing but restate what others have said and added into the mix, another component of how the real frelling world works.
Your belief would cause 90% of all international trade to cease. No country is going to do business with another or allow its own businesses to do so within another country if they cannot enforce their own laws there to some degree. They will not allow businesses from outside countries to do business with their citizens without being able to enforce their home laws either. That is how it works - deal with it.
Demanding to be presented with the exact documents which show how these things work is frelling insane. You want the exact documentation, you can go after it yourself.
And just once, stop being so thick when you're told: I asserted no such thing, I simply added in another mechanic for how these things work and mirrored what others have said.
I have no issues with people disagreeing with me - I do have issues with simple minded buffoons that demand information they can just as easily track down on their own concerning the day to day workings of the bloody world. I stop being polite when someone is being willfully obtuse.
No, I'm not going to respond to you further on this as I do not have the time to waste on someone who wants information handed to them on a silver frelling platter.