Rene Erlanger

Real World and Virtual World ......Real Life and Virtual Life.......would you consider the Real World/ Real Life a game? I wouldn't!.....the difference is a Power on/off button away! Large sections of Second Life is a mirror of Real Life.....we can do most things here that could be done in the Real World. The overwhelming majority of products sold in an out of SL are copies based RL items. Nope Second Life is not just a game ...as Real Life isn't a game either"!

Wayfinder Wishbringer x says It is a virtual reality game. People "play" Second Life. It has its tools, its rules, its social aspects and rewards just like any game. It's a game. Sure, it's more complex and more intricate than just about any other game I've seen, but bottom line, regardless of the semantics and folks who passionately scream otherwise... Second Life does indeed fit the definition of being a game. I disagree with that statement....I see Second Life as a 3D Virtual World which includes User content and an Economy.....within that enviroment you can have Games, Combat zones, Entertainment (clubs & dancing), Shopping, Art, Educational Facilities (Universities & Colleges) and Roleplay etc etc,

Actingill Igaly x says: The answer in my opinion is not to dumb down SL. Instead we should have 2 viewers: one for free accounts that allows basic sl functions and inventory; and one for premium account users (creators), that has all the functionality of the current viewers. I've been suggesting that for years (at least 3).....but it's too logical, so unlikely LL would ever adopt it Cathy Foil x says I know these idea seem radical especially number three but if you really think about it creating a world where the emphasis is on the enjoyment of the consumer will benefit the content creators which will them benefit LL. Nope, we're SECOND LIFE, not IMVU...nor do we want to be a copy of it. Despite LL's inability to make the right decisions & strategies over the last few years.....Second Life is still a superior and better product than IMVU.

I read the full transcript, i didn't see anyone being disrepsectful, unless that transcript has been doctored. To be honest i didn't find the content of that meeting very useful....i think I saved myself an hour. The smaller "user groups" might end up being more productive in future. There lies our problem....leaving the LEGAL team to decide those filtered words & ratings! The most significant comment thorughout that entire OH meeting was this, which is something i read elsewhere as regards to "Safe Harbor of ISPs"-------> Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): "One thing to ask the legal team about, Brooke, is the issue of when you have taken "editorial control" and thereby lose the protection of just being a hosting/comms provider. They should look up the precident set in the dual action in US court against Prodigy and Compuserve in the 1980s over adult content on USENET. Prodigy lost due to having attempted to filter (being deemed to have accepted editorial control) and failed. Compuserve won by making very little attempt to control it, just basing it on self-rating by end users and reacting to any complaints received. If the same precident was to be applied in legal action over SLM, the filter could actually increase LL's liability." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act

Can't find any workable links to this OH transcript.....any clues?

yep Daniel...i realize my mistake, regarding synchs between the Viewer and Server....completely forgot about that. I was thinking more around the UI and Viewer features. Although they could provide access to the TPV to that server code.....why not?. They allowed a group of out-sourced Ukrainian developers in the development of V2...they must have gotten sight of the Server code.....no?

I've taken a look at the video for Pheonix Firestorm V2 viewer which is still in beta stage....i can tell you it's already an improvement on any of LL's V2 viewers. I have no doubt when it is released, it will swipe the V2 user base, which will further dwindle the user percentage of LL's official default download. IMO LL should stop any further development of the V2 viewer and let the TPV's run with it and produce their own versions, which we know will eventually dominate the market anyway. LL would be better off diverting their already thin workforce to other areas of SL that need improvement.

Wow Darius being put on administrative hold....that's a bit steep Do you think Linden Lab models itself on Mubarek's regime?

Ah, a voice of reason (no disrespect intended at all to Gavin or Shockwave. Agree or disagree, I'm enjoying the discussion with both of you). But Rene is right. I was just thinking the same thing... but she beat me to the punch. He

Gavin Hird wrote : This has nothing to do with perverted ideas, but protecting the underage. First of all we know there currently are underage in SL all the way down to the age of 10. @Rene, Which part of "in a family oriented grid, there will be real children" was it you did not understand? Try to apply my argument to that eventuality ;-) That part.......kids under 16 yrs old have no business in Second Life. Should they break the TOS by logging in and see a child avatar......well that's really tough!

Disagree 100%...the grid invites 16 & 17 yr olds....anyone below that age should not be here in the first instance. No one has to justify their child like avatar appearance to a 10 or 13 yr old as they are breaking the TOS in the first instance. Without regurgitating old arguments again....i share similar views to Loki, Wayfinder & Shockwave regarding Child Avatars. You start down that sorry path.....you'll have to wonder which type of avatars are targeted next.....will it be Goreans or Vamps or Furries.? Narrow minded folk should find a different type of online game to play in imo

I think we're all hoping for that, no matter which side of the fence we stand on.

So yes enjoy the empty regions in SL, oh yes and the teens .. not only from the TG but from all over since LL now opend up for all teens to join. Ah bliss. Sincerly Former LL supporter Isn't that a typical Linden Lab business strategy though? It's always based on assumed growth, which never ever materialises. How many different stratgeies have they tried ?.....and yet all have failed to date. They now assume a family orientated audience will park their butts in Second Life at the expense of most of it's existing demographic. it's not going to happen....it's just another one of those long line of Linden Lab miscalulations. In essence and for all the trouble it is causing......the merger of the Teen & Main grids wasn't worth it. Teenagers are not going to join up to Second Life in their 1000's......they never did when they had their own Grid. (there concurrency rates were in the 100's not 1000's) Your typical teenager are more geared towards goal orientated games (e.g WoW) ....as opposed to playing "happy families" in Second Life. I would say only the creative aspects would be appealing to a teenager. If teenagers want to socialise, they'll use other mediums (FB & Twitter)....and to a lesser extent, platforms like IMVU too which has a larger late teens/ early 20's crowd. The only way Second Life will truely grow its numbers is to spend real dollars on Advertising & Marketing - WoW, IMVU, Everquest and Habbo Hotel have proved that...with real growth during a recession. LL missed the boat!

As an Estate owner, I didn't get involved in the gold rush of buying up Homesteads...it did effect my own Estate of full sims however. What LL ended up doing though, was despictable. Out of all those bad policy decisions during the last 2.5 years that was surely the worst. IMO there should have been a balanced pricing for this new product......the Tier price should have been set to 90-100 usd from the outset (75 usd was far too cheap and damaged those with full sims) , Avatars capped to 25-30 and script usage capped accordingly. That way both OpenSpace sims & full sims could fairly compete....hindering neither business model..

Shall we emulate the Egyptians and surround the Linden Town Halls......bring out flags and protest banners?

Agreed Shockwave ....also regarding SL and iphones......we'll have a generation of people needing glasses later on in life. Straining ones retina muscles, to view micro-text and small images can't be good. IMO it's a nonsense. SL like WoW and all other online 3D games needs to stay on PC's / Laptops....or maybe iPads at best (i.e smallest acceptable size on the eye)

Interesting post Gavin. I hope you'll be wrong on most counts....but should you be correct, there will surely be a mass exodus out of here! Overnight OS grids will get an influx of disllusioned residents

Well then, that's the first positive thing I've heard regarding SL in ages. I'll glady take your word on Kingdon (not the first such I've heard about him, but you're "from the source" so to speak). So it seems Kingdon was responsible... and yes, just maybe Rod will be an improvement. If not, well, I doubt SL will survive another major snafu. Although I dunno... the number of sheeple on that grid is just astonishing. And you know Rene, that's the sad part. In and of itself, Second Life is a brilliant concept. It has so very much potential. Likely one of the most amazing creative platforms that's ever existed on the planet... but man, the mismanagement of that potential is just beyond words. I have rarely seen a company that is this customer-abusive and still survive. edit: BTW, this brings a thought and question: with a history like Kingdon had... who was the blockhead who decided he was fit CEO material for Second Life? 1) I would say M.Kingdon but with direction from the VC's (the Board) The dollar signs started flashing, maybe the VC's had a notion that LL would be valued at $1 Billion and could be sold off! 2) Regarding his employment.....my guess some connection to one of the VC companies

r o yes, like you, I am very mildly optimistic. However, I felt the same when Mark Kingdon came in... and we see how that turned out. And to this day I don't know whether that was Kingdon's doing... or whether he was just a puppet carrying out orders of those really in power and was used as a scapegoat when things blew up. So, hoping Rod does a good job, hoping he cleans out Linden Lab policy and fixes things... but I'm by no means holding my breath... and by no means investing further in this platform. In our history we have lost ten sims to Linden Lab's customer-abusive policies and mismanagement (and we by no means hold a record in such things). We have no intention of repeating that experience. Wayfinder - i had an advantage over you regarding M.Kingdon....i worked at Organic Inc and witnessed the arrival of M.Kingdon as CEO over there.....and how destructive he became subsequently. I had pre-warned the SL community just after his CEO announcement as what to expect from him (needless to say i got ribbed from all quarters).....i had the last laugh though, as i was proven to be 100% correct 2.5 years later. I have a good gut feeling about this new CEO though.

So Prok is indeed correct in this: I do tend to have this wishful, optimistic idea that eventually, some day, Linden Lab will stop and listen to what its customers are saying and will change their seriously flawed decision method. Admittedly, that simply doesn't seem to ever happen. So yeah, apparent waste of time here. I'm hoping for (or banking on) a wind of change with our new CEO Rod Humble...i'm hoping he's smart enough to realise what's really needed to kick start SL once again. It's for this reason that i haven't totally given up on SL or it's future. I'm also hoping that finally the VC's (the likes of Mitch Kapor), take a back seat and not interfere in the decision making processes & strategies moving forward. I can't help but feel they were a major contributing factor as to why Phillip Linden resigned his CEO position......not once, but twice! It also appeared that M.Linden was a mere CEO puppet...as he stumbled from unsucccessful strategy to another! So lets give 2011 a chance!

Thanks for clarifying those figures Tyche. It wasn't clear in your highlight points......but it's good to know in future. In the grand scheme of things 40.9 (or 48%)..is still a large amount of non-revenue generating Land/sims. I understand a good percentage is used as Mainland infrastructure....and rightly so (i.e oceans, railway tracks, public parkland, roads, rivers etc, Linden Villages)....but still leaves a ton of land that is just sitting there gathering dust! Thats why i'd have LL do something with it....and it could act as a double edge sword, not only to attract existing residents (that find SL boring!!), but also improve retention rates of new sign-ups.

For kicks I opened an account with IMVU. Seemed easy to get started but could not help but think of all the advertising pitches I was made to gain some of their "currency". Made me wonder what direction I was actually headed. When I was finally logged in, I was sent to a random chat rrom. For 1 minute someone was there and then left. Leaving me alone in a room with no instructions on how to proceed. Not being able to see beyond the room was not very encouraging either. The environment was so comic-bookish it gave me a great appreciation for what SL is as a virtual world.(wayfinder's sim notwithstanding) Yes, They may have a lot more users, but it is not clear they have a real thriving economy. I could open a hot dog stand tomorrow and if I was giving away free food you can be sure I would have a lot more customers than the store down the street selling steak at $16/lb. So I can not put a whole lot into the numbers. Further, I would appreciate them taking all the freeloaders away from SL anyway. You will see from of my postings that i metioned that IMVU is an INFERIOR product when compared to SL, but what their Management does extremely well is to maximise its' potential with year-on-year growth by aggressively marketing their product......by contrast LL twidddle it's thumbs ...or engage in backdoor marketing...via Facebook, or buying Avatars Unitied, SEM & SEO etc etc. It is clear that IMVU have a thriving economy, if you took the trouble of speaking to content creators on their Catalog website PS .I think it was a low blow, to comment on Wayfinders's SIM and what business model he runs......it has nothing to do with the points being raised on this blog.

Although I think you are right. So much of what LL is doing is just plain illogical, counter-intuitive and self-destructive (not to mention customer destructive). We have to wonder what they are thinking (or alternately, smoking). It's like they're on this huge power trip and believe they can do no wrong. Gah. What Linden Lab has totally undestimated....is that within it's own customer base, you have some of the most smartest, brightest, artistic & creative people around. If LL think they can pull wool over their eyes by selling them an illusion of SL doing really well......they're sorely mistaken. I'd take the top 200 minds in SL any day of the week over the LL employees.(Management & VC's included)

Regarding the quote of LL driving us to off-world shopping.....maybe the LL Management are trying to emulate the IMVU model, which wholly relies on it's "Catalog" shopping website for purchasing IMVU products. (You'll can view quite a few similarities between Catalog & Marketplace shopping sites) There's no land to purchase in IMVU, as they're effectively chatrooms. However, there's one aspect that the LL Management have overlooked.......IMVU success which has seen staggering growth over the last 3 years, to a point that it has 2.5x more active users than SL.....and with peak logins of 120k compared to SL's 70k.....is largely due to spending a bundle of money on Marketing & Advertising, which is something LL has not done. The bottom line, is that LL cannot expect similar results or growth curves. If LL are moving away from their reliance of Land based incomes, you can be sure that product listing fees on Marketplace are not far behind!!! ( we haven't forgotten the initial listing fee proposal back in 2009! )

Do you know where the Linden Homes sims fit into this and how many sims that is? looks like 983 sims worth http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/virtual-business/8523-new-second-life-sims-past-41.html#post1108183