Rene Erlanger

Good post Talla. Although i have not set down roots in OS grids as yet, i have been doing a lot of research (reading and visting 1 or 2 Grids) and what you have stated appears to hold true. OS Grids will be the biggest growth market in 3D VW's at some point in the near future ...that i'm already convinced about. It's just a matter of what role SL wants to take.....to be included or excluded! (ie. HyperGrid)

Wade - it's a definite own goal. I'm pretty sure Land Tiers are more valuable in Income terms than all the itsy bitsy Marketplace commissions. It effects Estate sim tiers just as much as Mainland. Peaks and troughs are not really a good way of determining whether the Grid has grown or shrunk or provide any accurate readings for concurrency, it's just a general guideline...we've had 70k peak logins for quite some time...the troughs however appear deeper going down into low 30's. "Daily average" spread based across all 24 hrs...provides a far more accurate measurement. The graph shows that figure has dropped about 15% since late Feb 10 (Whereas your Peak Login figure of 70k might not have shown any kind of meaningful drop during that very same period) I've always preferred shopping inworld....it's also a good way of discovering new products, new gems, new locations and Yes.....meeting new people!. I only use Marketplace & previously Xstreet for my research.......and given all the delivery problems since Marketplace's inception, even less likely of use it for actual Purchases. To avoid making in-world barren and desolate....we really need a shift or encouragement back to in-world shopping! There has to be a reason for Shops & Malls to stay open.......no one should have to pay Land Tiers without any type of offset (sales & rentals), that kind of money is better utilised for RL bills ! (unless you have a entertainment budget set aside and is an acceptable monthly cost.....like for residential home makers)

Where are the numbers for the retention rates? LL used to publish them. Lol - you think Linden Lab want to publicise the fact that the V2 Viewer is even worst in terms of Noob retention rates than the previous 1.x viewers? Just so they can't pull wool over anyone's eyes....take a look at the 3rd graph (average daily 24hr logins figures)...down from a high of 58k in Jan/ Feb 10 bumping along the 50k line now http://gridsurvey.com/charts/stl_concurrency.png

So FIRST you are building interoperability and flooding content, THEN you are going to get "thoughtful" some day and "figure out" how to protect permissions *later*. That's irresponsible and even criminal. To urge Linden Lab to return to their commitment to interoperability under these circumstances is irresponsible. I hope LL will in fact develop ways to leverage its powers to impose some kind of trans-grid permissions systems and recognition of only those other platforms *that have built-in permissions systems* not just a vague TOS telling you where to send a DMCA notice. *Yes, that means DRM and YES THAT WORKS in a virtual world, unlike real life (where in fact it works better than you admit anyway).* There's obviously a hell of lot of work ahead ....there has to be standardisation of protocols, permission systems, a global TOS that covers those most general Grid terms (on top of local TOS maybe), possibly a Universal currency, some standardization of features, maybe a Universal Search alongside a local search for Grid only...etc etc.....overall i do see this as the future and inevitable path of 3D Virtual Worlds. Second Life can choose to be part of it..and be a main player & driving force or stay on the outside looking in. This is where i see the real growth area in 3D Virtual Worlds in the coming years....and not from SL standalone on its old architecture with all it's limitations. At the moment, I have no presence on any OS Grid ...but i know somewhere down the line, i'll need to have a satellite business located on one of those Grids.....it makes sense...it makes sense to position your eggs in different baskets. One follows where the next growth market is likely going to be. SL has been poodling around with 70k peak logins for the last 2/3 years now....they tried various strategies (some bad)...and nothing seems to kick start this old horse! So we move onto our next series of White Knights,,...Mesh, SL Web browser & Marketplace. Let's keep hoping eh!

Speaking of interoperability between grids, remember this 2008 video? http://blip.tv/file/1060555/ Therein lies the long-term future, in my opinion. I wonder if it is on LL's radar at all anymore. I sincerely hope so. More of my own thoughts on interconnectivity: http://becunningandfulloftricks.com/2010/10/10/the-future-will-be-connected-maps-and-the-metaverse/ I agree Pathfinder...imo that's where the future lies and I've never been pro-OS Grids....but having done a lot of reading and researching in recent months.....that's the opinion i arrived at!. However, it must be able to take your full inventory too (I guess that's the real difficult part), otherwise there's not much point to it....as you can login into all the different grids at the Login stage using something like the Hippo Viewer. The key is taking your Avatar name + inventory from grid to grid. I see that Hypergrid Technology does that! What would be awesome in the future using HyperGrid Tech.....would be a unified Search system that encompasses locations from all the different Grids! Who knows....maybe in a few years time, this will all be possible!

Those comments might have been fake or not (although 1 seemed quite kosher)....but with so many laid off employees in the last 6 months, it's only a matter of time that such commentary will surface...along the lines of "Life at Linden Lab". At some point we'll get a clearer image of the inner workings at the Lab......and it will make for interesting reading! Consider how many comments made daily by the Community, most of which is pure speculaton on how LL operates..or their aims or their future goals etc I still maintain that SL can't scale much more than what it is (I've been saying it for last 3 years), so we should be content with that...and build our businesses along those lines without any great expectations of uber growth! I also believe the VC's will want a return on their investments at some point....so i'm guessing it will come from a complete LL sale...as I can't see the non-VC Shareholders doing a buy-back. (probably around the 200 mill mark i.e 10 x investment) .One of their shareholders happens to be Saints Capital , a Secondary Investments firm...with some dubious history of being a Board blocker.

Wade1 - if you want growth in SL...then LL need to tackle their real bug bear successfully. They lose a ton of potential new users after a/c creation and initial login. My guess the biggest churn rate ...is in the "Tried it once and never to return" category. So how to retain these new users.? I spun a couple of ideas on recent forum threads...which would require a bit of LL time and investment (or Donation) - Similar to the proposed 70-sims Arts Region....it might be an idea (someone else came up with this one!) for LL to developed a public mini-Continent for Gaming (non-Gambling) activities......a sort of next step after Noobs left the Orientation Islands. Especially at the very beginning of a Noob's Life....SL needs to be seen as being interesting & fun. Events should be very prominent at that stage......not just a shopping arena or a place you can set up Home. So direct Noobs towards Entertainment rather than the Commercial aspects of SL to begin with! Should the Noob get hooked to SL......all the commercial aspects will naturally follow . - Sims like the Nemo Triology ought to be "archived" by LL (if the originator agrees) and set aside on a separate LL owned Continent as a permanent tourist attraction (strip out any commercial elements).....like a Museum of awesome Sim builds. Again..it should be like one of the first zones for a Noob to TP into after the Orientation Island process. I think it''s a great opportunity for these type of destinations to make a Noob's initial SL experiences far more interesting (seeing the best of SL and what can be done, even if they are former builds). LL could make it work in their favour. ++++++ With the amount Land being abandoned and Sims returned...a litlte donation and creation of these type of mini-Continents would serve LL well in the long term. Hell,...M.Linden was at one time considering a 70-sim Arts Centre...so these ideas are not beyond the realms of possibility. IMO Project Skylight i.e SL web browser, is a good idea moving forward....it's a window where social networkers & others can take a peak at SL through a window. Should they find it appealing and want a more immersive experience...they can always download the SL Viewer Client

Wade1 - it doesn't matter if those ex-Lindens were fake or not...those that "need" to believe them...will....and those that don't....won't! Considering the amount of lay-offs....it's only a matter of time until more and more similar type comments of the inner workings of LL will appear. Whatever ...the fact is that the current Second Life platform won't scale despite the little improvements here and there....it's like applying band-aid! If you think one day this platform will magically hold 200k peak logins.....think again! You just need to build an SL business model around the worst case scenario...i.e no real SL growth.....sure we might one day get 80/ 90k peak logins ...maybe even 100k, but i feel that will be it! I'm not saying anything new here...i've been preaching the same mantra for nearly 3 years now.(so far i've been correct!) Yes, Second Life is the overwhelming Market leader....but with limitations, if there isn't going to be a v2.0. I did say the future of 3D Virtual Worlds....which I believe is here to stay regardless of what happens to LL & SL.

It doesn't matter....Second Life is what it is. These public statements are designed to paper the cracks! I just wish LL were open and just tell us what we've known for a long time "Second Life won't scale any further".....even their ex-employees are now confirming this by divulging titbits of information on blogs. LL would need to develop a Second Life v2.0 from the ground up for a longer term future....but i guess their VC's won't sanction such (high) development costs. Maybe that's why LL Tier pricing has always been high (control size of Grid)......maybe that's why LL never actively nor aggressively Marketed or advertise their game for real growth in it's user base.......they already know the limits of their system! LL should go back to a project they first initiated but then abandoned.....Interportability between Grids......there lies the future of 3D Virtual Worlds....the real growth market!

Second Life is as flat as a pancake !!!.....and the Game owners are clueless as to how to promote their own product to the outside world. Do you see the way IMVU promote their platform? Banner adverts all over the Internet.......or how about the owners Bizzard Inc promote their World of Warcraft game?. What is LL's answer? SEO & SEM.!!! You pay peanuts (i.e setting aside a small Marketing budget)....and you won't get any meaningful influx of new users, hence the REAL reason for zero growth (new User numbers = those leaving SL......no growth!) LL had it too easy during it's earlier years...and succeeded mainly through lots of viral marketing and media attention....yes, even those negative SL stories attracted growth! .....and now.?...Second Life who?? LL can site World wide recession as an excuse, but in reality anyone with a computer can join and log into Second Life...and can virtually participate without spending any money (Linden dollars or real USD).....but first the outside world needs to know that Second Life exists ...and what it is all about! The current regime has its's head in the sand pit.....the only blessing is that there's no viable competitor on the Market (For now!)

Its' absurd the length of time it takes for cash out and to reach their Paypal destination. For me Xstreet Exhange was virtually instant (the actual transfer part).....there are other 3rd party exchanges like Apez & Dx and a few others....that are much quicker than LL, but the sell rates are not as favourable.

The question is how LL management is going to grow their own product and sell it to the outside world? The Land growth figures above ...are mis-information that includes a special land deal with SL's largest Estate Baron in purchasing 450 sims at a discounted rate and placing them on the grid....they were empty sims at Q2 period end....a complete farcade of results recording. There was no land growth during Q2 at all!

Janus.Rhiadra wrote: Our sim was sold, and the land we are on is going to be moved to another region. Does anyone have any experience with this and whether or not I need to be very worried about loosing items on my land? Hopefully you're new SIM owner will honour previous agreements! Yes, would be a good idea to pick up "No copy" items until things are clarified.