BilliJo Aldrin
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Posts posted by BilliJo Aldrin
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2 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:
Well, given that griefing, if established to be griefing, is accepted to be "wrong" and therefore "not moral" even if it's "realistic", I think you're splitting hairs. You're still asking whether it's acceptable to do this, so you ought to be prepared for people to tell you that they think it isn't.
As such, I don't think it's "wrong"/"griefing". It's just an unfunny joke that's set up so that only you would get it. You seem to be happy with that, so knock yourself out.
I' m sorry, but I never asked if it was acceptable, I asked if it was griefing.
And since it's on my own parcel, with the wasps acting as a de facto security orb, it is totally completely 100% acceptable.
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Just now, Amina Sopwith said:
Ok, first of all you invited our opinions, so I don't understand why you're not prepared to hear that someone might think you're "wrong".
Second, if I were in RL woods, and got attacked by hornets, I'd not return. In SL, which actually is different (ie, you put the hornets there and didn't tell me), I would assume it was a security measure, since it would push me to the parcel edge and stop me from exploring further. I don't think I'd realise it was a practical joke if I had no way of knowing that part of the land was safe.
I'd probably realise it was a joke and even find it funny if there were warning signs not to proceed further, or even a note about angry hornets in a welcome note. As it is, the feature gives no warning and doesn't just annoy you for a few seconds, but effectively ejects you without explanation.
It's not "wrong" if that's what you want to do on your own land, but it comes over as a security measure and that's how I think most people will see it. Again, I wouldn't AR or feel hurt. I just wouldn't understand why the land description says it's open to all, or there's no barrier, when you appear to want to stop people being there.
The only opinion I actually asked was is it griefing if you push someone on your own parcel? It's everyone else that derailed to thread to question the morality of pushing them without warning.
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9 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:
Apparently (and I can't check this because I don't know the parcel location) the About Land description says something like "Open to all" or "open access" or "for all to enjoy" or "public" or something of that sort. If the About Land description contains words like this, they ought to be removed in order to be fair, because the reality of the situation is that your land is fully open only to your friends (on the safe list) and only part of your land (but you're not saying in advance which part) is open to everyone.
If the About Land doesn't say anything like this and never did, then I am mistaken and I apologise.
And you are wrong; most people DO tend to read the About Land before entering a parcel. If you tend not to do that yourself that doesn't mean no-one else does , it just means that you're not typical.
I certainly hope I'm not "typical". I take great pride in not being typical.
But, seriously? People stop and read the about land before crossing a property line? I just walk across. If an orb tells me to leave, then I leave. If not, i figure it's open to explore. If i get half way across and get attacked by killer bees or a rabid dog, or zombies, i just laugh and move on.
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2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:
If you are looking to be more factual with your nature area, they usually won't swarm you unless you get close to the nest around 3m or closer and they see you as a threat..
Outside the nest area they are really passive unless they are protecting their nest or you mess with them too much..
But I understand you probably have your area that you don't want others but you and your friends to go into..
So it's pretty much acting like an orb for the area you want to keep to yourself,I'm guessing..
It's none of my business what you do on your own land or my place to tell you what to do..I was just curious what the hornets were for is all..
There's nothing in the area that the wasps scan that I want to protect from visitors.
If someone tps in while I'm there I'll give them an oops and turn off the nest.
I've even tped friends in, forgetting that wasps will get them. They get added to the safe list
The only reason I have wasps to chase away visitors is because I thought it would be amusing to have wasps chase away visitors.
So anyway, the consensus seems to be, since its my land, it can't be griefing. Thank you all for your input.
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In SL I plan on making one of my alts premium so when the inevitable happens, it will be a seamless transition.
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2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:
I see and understand your plight, prok. I still say PRIMS FOR THE WIN.
I am serious: I'll take a high-quality prim build over a similar mesh build, even at a *slight* cost of more LI because prims don't have LOD ISSUES. They REZ FASTER (I repeat: quality-built; optimized textures) and they don't LAG the hell out of your computer, no matter how many V-8 engines under the hood.
Just saying.
Don't forget, prims look more "real" too.
I'll take prims over mesh any day.
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1 hour ago, Orwar said:
I'd say that this depends on the relationship. People are quick to make statements on shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in reality the concept of a relationship isn't a two-dimensional entity in which the parameters are either true or false.
A relationship which is SL-only, I'd agree with you - what real life information either party decides to share or not to share, is up to them; the other party can either accept the extent of information received and work with that, or they can tell the other party that they won't take the relationship to an intimate stage unless some RL information - such as gender - is shared. If the two trust each other, then perhaps a mere statement is considered appropriate validation, although it's not uncommon for one to want vocal verification. It's not up to any of us to tell such a couple what they should or shouldn't do, relationships are private affairs after all.
On the flip side of the trust required for a simple statement to be enough, we know that catfishing is a thing and that it can occur for a variety of reasons - some of which people will quite readily defend, such as mental disorders or having a sexual or lifestyle disposition which may not always be wholly accepted by many people. Other times it's for more nefarious reasons, such as revenge or economical benefit. That's not to say that one should be drastically distrusting of everyone who doesn't voice verify within 30 seconds of conversation; after all, at least my empirical conclusion of interacting with people online for two decades, is that it's a very small minority who will try to fool you.
However, in the end it's up to each and everyone to decide how they want to interact with others in SL. If you want to go to clubs to pick up strangers for one night stands, then perhaps it's best not to worry any further than what's on the screen.
Obviously if there is a chance that a relationship could go to RL then complete honesty is necessary, but when one makes it clear right from the start that whatever relationship develops will forever remain strictly in SL, then it should be WYSIWYG.
I've been with my rl partner a long long time, in fact we met online,. I have no interest in that ending that for someone new. But if i did, I certainly wouldn't be using SL as a dating site.
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Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:
How exactly did the words "open to all" get into the land description?
That's not the point, the point is the land IS open to all, until you get attacked by the hornets. There was nothing implied about how long you can stay.
If you stay out of range, you can stay all day, if you get too close, you have up to 30 seconds
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11 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:
The only thing that makes it "not a security orb" is "it's not spherical". It fulfils the same function as a security orb, and it has the same result as a security orb (person not on safe list is removed from your property). Like your hornets nest, an orb-shaped security orb can also be set to cover only a small part of your parcel instead of all of it. And like your hornets nest, a security orb can also be set to eject trespassers to the border instead of teleporting them home.
Your hornets nest lacks some other features of standard orbs, and replaces them with bitey insects, but it is, still, a security orb.
I am suggesting that every parcel that has a security orb does not have someone saying "Hey! Open invitation to come and explore! Oh, BOOM! Haha gotcha!" Which is what you are doing.
Yes, actually I look at the land description before I even attempt to teleport there. So do lots of other people. Because if it appears to be someone's private home, I don't want to be there without an invite. Your "open invitation" would say to me that the land is public. Then the hornets come along and prove you wrong.
People don't need to say that you have a security orb in the land description because the orb itself will announce on arrival that it is there and give you a certain amount of time to leave the parcel. Your hornets nest doesn't appear to announce itself until it's too late, and it goes contrary to your "open invitation" so you are contradicting yourself.
Your "open invitation" is non-existent. What you actually have is a lure deliberately designed to draw people into an unpleasant situation for your own amusement.
As far as I know, the only place it says its open to all is in the "about land" and you probably won't look at that until after you were chased away, so where exactly am I advertising a park open for all to explore?
I don't even describe the land in my picks, there is certainly no invitation to come visit.
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1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:
So is there a reason why you wouldn't warn people of the hornet-guarded exclusion zone? Especially since, if they cross it, they won't be able to explore the unprotected part of the land, since they'll be pushed right up against the edge of the parcel?
Why wouldn't I believe it? You've made it clear that you do this because you find it funny.
But it makes it even more inexplicable to me. If it's group rez only, there's an implication that if you can rez a car there, you're welcome. I've just caught up with the earlier post saying that your description of the land is that it's for all to enjoy. Why would you say that if there's an in-built feature that effectively boots people?
I just don't understand why you'd do this without warning people that there's a part of the land that's off limits.
If I were on this land and the hornets got me, I'd assume it was an inventive security measure and would bog off and not return. If they didn't push me to the edge of the parcel, so I could still stay and explore, again, I'd wonder why there were no signs telling me not to walk any further.
I wouldn't report this or feel particularly hurt about it. I just wouldn't understand why there was no warning.You are still missing the point. If you were in the woods in RL there would be no warning if you were attacked by hornets. It's just not your lucky day, that's all. you got swarmed.
People go on and on and on about making SL as "real" as possible. I did this in my own small way, but because it's not how others would do it, it's all wrong.
Anyway, thank you all for your most gracious input.
If you ever want to drop by, send me an IM and I'll add you to the safe list, or just take your chances with the swarm.
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4 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:
Personally I don't think that having a hornets nest that pushes people to the parcel border on your own land is griefing, IF you state in the parcel description that it is private land and strangers are unwelcome.
Having an open invitation to all AND THEN doing this, yes I think that's griefing, because it's going contrary to what people expect an open invitation to be. It's like inviting someone to your party in RL and when they arrive, you tell them they have to stand outside and watch through the window. That's disappointing when you were expecting a party, and getting kicked to the parcel border is disappointing when you were expecting to be able to explore freely.
What you need to do is warn of the conditions of the "open" invitation; mark out the territory where the hornets patrol, put up warning signs or something, say that this part of the parcel is private or whatever. Or just remove the open invitation altogether, because it's plainly clear that you don't have such a thing at all, and you're just attacking innocent folk who did nothing but accept a thing that doesn't actually exist. And you're pissing people off solely because you find it amusing?
Doing it for the Lulz, right.
So are you suggesting that every private parcel in second life that has a security orb active states somewhere in the parcel description that the parcel is private?
As I have stated before, I don't advertise my land anywhere, or perhaps you are trying to tell me that before you walk onto a private parcel you look at the "about land" first before crossing the property line?
I've never seen a parcel description that says "stay out, I have a security orb and its active".
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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:
Is there a reason why you wouldn't have some sort of warning to people that this isn't for public access? Or why you wouldn't have auto-return set up, as in the case of the crashed car? (And why wouldn't it be possible for the owner to reverse out after hitting the stone?)
I have no experience of land ownership, so forgive me if these are stupid questions.There are no ban lines and there isn't a security orb. If you manage to stay out of range of the wasps you can stay for as long as you wish. So it is public access.
The land is group rezz only, so no need for auto return, since no one can rezz anything except group members. Believe it or not I'm quite amused to find a crashed car or crashed airplane on my property, it adds to the realism that is Second Life.
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3 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:
Now there's a sentence that says sod all, and you certainly haven't demonstrated respect in this thread. You have done us all a favour though, in clarifying just what you're like.
there really needs to be a shrug emoji
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11 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:
If their relationships move into intimacy, it's the ethical thing to do to explain to a RL or SL partner what their "assigned at birth" gender is.
Wonderful post, except that last line. In my opinion, if you were "born" female in SL no further explanation or clarification is needed.
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Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:
It sounds a little like the experience of being in one of your threads.
yes except i'm the one being swarmed by angry hornets 😁
its funny how my threads always seem to end up going hot, like omg BJ posted something, lets go get her 😆
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40 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:
I guess I'm just curious about the point myself..
Is it for security like an orb?
If it's for security for your land then i wouldn't worry about it..
If it's nabbing people outside your land,then I would worry..
If you have something there inviting people in and them getting booted..Well you'll probably get reported a time or two..Doesn't mean anything will come of it..people can report you for pretty much anything really.. it's if something sticks is all..
The sole point is its a natural area and a swarm of angry hornets are a part of nature.
There is nothing on the property inviting people in, its just there.
As far as I know its not "nabbing people" outside the parcel and they only push people to the property line because i get the message "object entry not allowed on this parcel"
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1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:
oh I need 1 more emoji to have 1000 feedback. A laugh is just as good as a like.
ty 😁
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5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:
To get technical:
A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game (trolling), using aspects of the game in intended or unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2] This creates a strong division between griefing and cheating, since cheating is done with intent of winning the game and thus is discouraged by in-game penalties.
Using this definition:
1. are you a player in an mpg - yes, with the caveat that SL is not a game
2. are you irritating the people visiting your so-called public space - from the replies here I'd think yes, you are
3. are you using the swarm/land as intended - yes
4. are you annoying your visitors - most likely yes
5. can you receive a penalty for such behavior - no
So while I believe you can face no penalty for such behavior I think this behavior fits quite nicely within this definition of griefing.
So what I'm wondering is this. Did you ask if it could be considered griefing because you wanted to be sure you wouldn't get some kind of penalty or because you were concerned that you might be annoying the very same people you invited into your land?
In the first place, any time i specifically invite someone to my land I either
1) turn off the nest or
2) add them to the safelist.
For anyone that just shows up being attacked by a swarm of hornets is simply part of the experience of being on my property. If they never wander into scan range they will never be attacked.
Many might consider it griefing but they are the same sort that would consider it griefing if they are accidentally bumped into in a busy club.
For some reason they always end up spreading their tales of woe here in the forums where of course the proper reply is a laugh emoji.
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oh I need 1 more emoji to have 1000 feedback. A laugh is just as good as a like.
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4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
Would a follower that created the same swarm of hornets in a public area be griefing?
it depends. What do you mean by a public area? My land is a "public area" but no one has a LL ARable right to be there.
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7 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:
You aren't pushing them around, you are kicking them off the land essentially saying I invited you in now get the hell out! That's not funny, IMO.
Thank you for your input but, my original question was "would this be considered griefing?". So far the replies have shown that its not.
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15 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:
It sounds childish and spiteful, and I'd be very disappointed to encounter it. There are few lovely, inviting places on the Mainland as it is without one pretending to be an open park. You also assume people share your mean humour, or you're using that excuse to cover your spite. Blacklist me if it makes you feel good; it's not somewhere I'd care to enter.
I'm not sure where spite comes into the equation but I respect your right to feel that my actions are spiteful.
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2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:
It kinda sounds like a bait and switch thing. You invite people to enjoy your land but you essentially have a security orb activated to remove people. You advertise in the description one thing but in reality it's a very inhospitable place. Of course it's your land and you can whatever you want with it. It's not griefing. But it is bait and switch IMO.
Actually the swarm only covers half the property so if u entered right after a scan you'd have 30 seconds to walk out of range. Maybe I could be more sporting and drop the range to 15 m
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And thats the irony, I gave them the right to enter my land but then I guess I have the right to interact with them by pushing them around with a hornet swarm. I would hope most people would go omg that is too funny.
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Is it griefing if you push someone on your own property?
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
That description was a relict from when I divided the land for sale. That part was outside of the scan range, so visiting that parcel looking to buy it you wouldn't be bothered by the hornets.