Nataly Moonwall

TransPleasure wrote: After I visited them, indeed you are so right, Similar are far better than Maitreya. Die laughing....sighs.

Absolutely agree Pamela...that's the kind of customer that i try to avoid at all costs. Airway, 24 hours is NOt so long. Have a bit of patience and give a chance to the merchant before attempting to discredit him with bad reviews. BTW be sure that you picked the product that you wanted. Be sure that you are not complaining for your own mistake by have picked the wrong vendor box...(which having read all, probably you did)

I wonder if you are being a bit fussy...i never had problems trying demos and trust me i've tried hundreds LOL....I'm just grateful when creators offer demos for their products and if someday i find a demo covered with so many "DEMO" labels (like you said) i will assume that creator is not idiot and probably have a good reason for it. Really, why complain about so silly things?

There are a web of hackers/copybotters that offer direct downloads for all the viewers with copybot capability, even with videos to show you how use these viewers. Also on the forum they have A LOT of free files to download copybotted stuff (stolen from many content creators). I guess that LL knows about this issue, and my question it's....LL really cannot block logins from these viewers or take down this web providing illegal viewers??

Talking to a rock...what i said: "... i'm just saying that i can recognize easily some copybotteD items by inspecting (note difference between copybotteD and copybotteR" Please, quote where i said that i agree about to inform others (beyond the original creator of the stolen items). BTW read Pussycat last post, she was able to recognize a copybotted item by common sense,inspect tool and some research. I'm not talking about RZ,compiling list, or "spread the word". So please, leave this way... About the silly comparison with RL, while you are not able to understand that items in SL can be inspected and reported if are recognized like copybotted, you are not able to understand the whole pointt. Let's LL decide if the reported avi it's the botter or not,ok? Thanks

If you call "idiots" those who do not have the same opinion than yours i understand what you meant about dumb people...Come on guys, i just said that it's not so hard to recognize some copybotted stuff:smileyvery-happy:

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: The method you use to even identify content is unreliable but due to what you find with that method you are certainly doing the right thing when you report it to the original creator. Taking that information that you found to support your suspicions and making the determination that because you inspected something someone was wearing (or using) is also guilty of being a copybotter or theif and using that to lump that person into a catagory equal to the thief is a step that is just out and out wrong. Your method of inspecting does not justify such an assumption.......yet you insist it is..... "....A brand new newbie doesn't need to know that being accused of a copybotter (or equal to a copybotter) with your assertion simply because you found something that appears to copied content in their possession that such an accusation is wrong. And that is exactly what you are doing. Evidently you are part of a group who compiles some list to share with each other...........full of mostly false assumptions about residents. And you are trying to justify your actions to me and others because you are "fighting the good fight" in protectiing IP rights of all merchants. You are doing no such thing..........you are actully doing quite to opposit if a new resident happens to be reading (and there is every possibility that there are new people reading what you are saying). You are hurting content creators with your attitude and practices.....I can't understand how you don't see that. I'm not in any group compiling list to share, so your assumption is wrong. i'm just saying that i can recognize easily some copybotteD items by inspecting (note difference between copybotteD and copybotteR). You can't do it due to lack of knowledge about SL stuff/original creators? i'm sorry for you. Btw, there are a LOT of stores where you will got banned if you are found wearing copybotted items and they would not care if you are the botter or not, just because we don not want people with copybotted stuff at our home. PERIOD About this: "There's no technology today to identify copies of digital content" .... LL can identify copies and copybotters, and for this reason many of them got banned after file report. When you understand that i'm not agree about slandering people but able to recognize some copybotted stuff to warn original creators then maybe you will start to understand my point.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: as to your point number 1.. YOU are not a merchant.. So you can call in question if i'm a merchant...i did the same. Anyway it's just my opinion, don't be mad.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Banning people who come to your store wearing what you determine to be stolen content (again, using unreliable methods) and lumping them into the same catagory as a thief is just wrong on so many levels it's sickening. You can, of course, ban anyone for any reason you choose........but you are a bad business person. Doing the reporting to the original creator when you suspect stolen content is the only thing you do that is reasonable and proper.....but you are taking it about 100 steps too far. Good luck in your business.......you'll need it. Which sort of makes me wonder why it is that you feel you are loosing business to "copybotters" in the first place. Might it be your attitude toward your potential customers that effects your sales? With your assertion that anyone wearing "copybotted" content is just as bad as the theif I would say it's your attitude. I seriously wonder which part of "copybotted with evidence" is not being understood and why you insist about "unreliable methods". Let's put an example as for a children of 7 years ok? I found at my store an avatar wearing a well-known sculpted jacket from a well-known serious,established and original content creator/store. I inspect the jacket and i see that creator name is not the same than the original creator, wich i know about his work and even claim in his profile or policy that their work is protected and only created by himself. The jacket showing other creator name it's identical: same sculpts,textures, even store LOGO or the same object name than the original. I eject the avatar,and send screenshot to the original creator showing inspection window, who have recognized his copied work and is grateful to know about this fact to be able to take actions. Ejected avatar do not ever contact me again or remains silent after explain why got ejected. Some of them maybe didn't know that they had on something copied and respond with "ohh sorry someone gave it to me"? probably, but it's copybotted anyway. That's just an example, replace the jacket for a hair,shoes or whatever you want that you can inspect. IMO you (most of you) should educate yourself about SL original & protected stuff from serious/established creators that precisely are the most copybotted. This will help you also to avoid of being scammed or buy illegal content. That's the basis to recognize and differentiate the copybotted items. The fact that you are not able to do it due to lack of knowledge does not mean that those who know about original/protected content are not able to do it. And Peggy, don't worry about my business works better than you can imagine (even with copybot). Anyway thanks for your best wishes...

@Drake Trust me, was not intended to offend you. You are entitled to use your main account to post here and i'm entitled to use an alt if i feel safer in this way. Nothing to hide.Period. If you have a problem with this (or if you believe or not that i'm a content creator) is your opinion and i don't care. In my opinion, claiming to be a content creator to sell simple cylindrical prims as rings for 150 $L. it's a....mmm, i better leave it here. @Peggy Peggy i'm sorry if my question made you feel frustrated in some way, i'm just a bit tired about people giving misleading info, and usually this people are not merchants or content creators (they do NOT suffer the real pain of see their work copybotted). Again: my point was that it's easy to recognize copybotted stuff if you know about the original creators and the permissions that they gave to their work. It's easy to recognize copybotted hair,sculpted clothes,shoes...etc. inspecting the object and seeing the creator name. If you know that the item can only be created by the original creator and there appears another name, it's copybotted. Will the inspected object give you the name of the real botter? not always. But the point is to know recognize the stuff, there are a lot of designers who make original content claiming in their profiles that ONLY they can appears as creator . Actually, many stores have boards warning about this and encouraging customers to inform them about items found showing other creator name. About your last line, i eject from my store those avis wearing copybotted items if i caught them at my store, as i said to wear stolen items it's a lack of respect toward content creators. Usually potential customers do not wear copybotted items and my business goes very well,thanks. @Pierre Pierre,i do not eject or ban anyone under my educated guess, if I do it's because I have evidence that they are wearing copybotted stuff. I report it and send the screenshot to the original creator. But if you think that 99% of people wearing copybotted items do not know that it's illegal content all I can say is sweet innocence ....

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Funny how a disgreement that is going the way you want it to go changes to person assaults... Changes to person assault since you treat someone like a "silly" who's doing "silly questions". I wanted to know with my "silly question" if you are a merchant, because: 1. It's the merchants forum 2. I would like to know that you know what you're talking...so please, try to avoid words like "silly" when you refer to someone. Drake, i'm a content creator smart enough as to do not use my main avi to post about anti-copybott/content theft just to avoid problems(retalations). Peace!!:smileywink:

Peggy, my next "silly" question would be if the stuff that you made is the one that you are wearing in your profile pic ,because then mmhhh.....well, i come back to the subject ^^. Sassy i understand your point and i agree, it's no always possible to identify the "real" creator of the copybotted stuff but in some cases it's matter of common sense (people wearing all the copied items created by the same avatar,items created not long ago, connections between profiles, avatar has a few days...) my point was that if you know about SL stuff you can recognize that something it's copied by inspecting the object, but i agree that you cannot spread the word without evidence.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: "... Actually, inspect is the only tool available to verify copybotted items." ----------------------------------------------------------- Inspect is an available tool (it's not the only and it's no more reliable than any other tool). But for positively identifying anything it is just as reliable as IP addresses. You cannot tell anyone is a copybotter by inspecting who made the item, who owns the item or who you believe to be the original creator by simply looking at the item..........custom made or full perm kits. It's extremely difficult for even the original creator to positively identify an item that they made and believe is copied unless there is some hidden and unique additional graphic embedded in the original (watermarking). You can suspect a copied item using inspect (or even IP addresses) but you cannot reliably identify the item.......you're taking an educated guess is all. Peggy may i ask you what kind of stuff have you created? and if is your own work (made in external programs)? I guess that you are a content creator...are you? i hope so! Me and all the content creators that i know (who make their own work) are able to recognize immediately our copybotted items. I guess that you never made sculpts in external program, because then you would know how it's very easy to recognize your own sculpts when has been copybotted (or even the textures). In the same way it's easy to recognize as well the copied work of other creators. As i said in my example before, recognize copybotted items depends on the knowledge about SL stuff/original content creators.

Thanks Peggy for the explanation, i knew about Redzone and to me there are not connection with this issue. The ban here was made personally and manually, RZ has not been even mentioned by the OP so let avoid the Redzone drama please!!. In SL there are a lot of stuff that looks identical because they come from the same fullperm kits. I tried to put it clear with my example: there are designers making original content (not fullperm kits) and only they are the creators of their work. Precisely, this kind of designers are the most known and copybotted (let's be clear, stuff coming from fullperm kits are not the most wanted). Inspecting is absolutely reliable if you know about the stuff inspected and about creators. Evidently, if someone don't know differentiate full perm kits and original content then is unreliable at all. Actually, inspect is the only tool available to verify copybotted items.

Hello Sassy. I agree, "good" copybotters will use an alt or even a fullperm prim from a creator to make the copies but there are some idiots wearing copybotted stuff created by themselves (or maybe i caught them while are running with the copybotter alt ^^). Also it's common to see this people wearing all the copybotted stuff created by the same avatar (so it's easy to deduce that probably it's an alt). I eject from my land people who wear copybotted items. I know very well about SL stuff, creators and original content protected so it's easier to me to recognize when an item has been copybotted because i know about the original.I don't care about the common response "oh i didn't know someone gave it to me", i cannot know in any way if this is true or not and to me it's a lack of respect toward other creators to allow people wearing copybotted stuff at my store. People wearing copybotted items is contributing to content theft.

lol...thanks Drake, i know very well that i do not need a reason to ban someone from my land. My point was that to ban someone for copybot without evidence and just because you have read about him in some chat group makes no sense.

Hi, why some people are talking about Redzone? Redzone has nothing to do with this issue. Seems that she had banned "manually" this guy after read about him in some group chat or notice...and sorry but this is your own fault , you cannot ban someone without evidence (eg. screenshot showing inspection window or object inspected by yourself). Anyway trust me if i say that i have seen people spending a lot of L$ in my stuff who had been previously banned from my store for being copybotters with evidence (and removed from the list after long time). The fact that they are doing the things well now doesn't mean always has been so. Peggy, there are a way to identify copybotters much better than catch them in the act...inspect the items. If you know about original stuff/creators you can inspect them...let's put an example: I know about Maitreya store "X" boots. I found an avatar wearing these boots, i inspect them and are created by herself but i know that Maitreya "X" boots are original content only created by Onyx Leshelle. Next step is to take a screenshot showing inspection window (copybotter name as creator, date...) report, and send the pic to OnyxLeshelle (original creator).

I agree with you Amethyst. Good 1st paragraph especially! The thing is, I don't have a problem. When you say that I am part of the problem, I say "What problem"? I don't create anything and have nothing for anyone to steal. Anything in my inv I would gladly share with anyone who wants it, if "share" was enabled on the item. I didn't pay for any of it ~ not with RL money anyway ~ and anyone who wants my stuff can have it. So how am I supposed to have a problem with theft? If everyone would freely share there would be no theft. Theft is an artifact of greed - the greed of both the thief and of the person stolen from. If the thief wasn't greedy he or she wouldn't steal. If the person ripped off wasn't greedy they would share their stuff with others. Be this as it may, I don't seek to justify or rationalize or excuse theft. I merely point out that moralizing about theft is no deterrant to the thief. If anything, thieves laugh at righteous indignation & become that much more motivated to steal from those they perceive as being on some moral high horse. But to answer your question: No, I don't know of anyone who steals SL content. How would I know? I pay no attention to who made what or what store something came from. So how would I know if something I see was copied or not? If I did know of such a thing I might tell the person who was being ripped off but I certainly wouldn't inform LL. I'm not a nark. I'd no more inform LL than I'd call the police. I detest authority. The theft I referred to knowing about was when my brother was engaged in an online international credit card fraud scam when he was a teen. When I found out about this I put a stop to it. Not because I cared about the pervs whose CC info he was ripping off from porn sites, but because I didn't want to see my brother go to jail. Jeanne Jeanne, the thing is that you don't have any respect toward all the content creators who make their living in SL, earning income to RL (and there are many) .Some of them suffer real losses ($) due the content theft, but of course this "is not your problem". You have wrong idea about what is the SL concept. SL it's all about business, the mentality of "If everyone would freely share there would be no theft" only shows ignorance and it's sooo common in copybotters...sure, there will not be theft but you really think that SL would exist without the market? lol. Other point, people talking about "greedy" merchants (justifying theft) to me sounds like unskilled people really envious of the success of others...i bet for sure that if you were able to make good creations that provide you $ income to SL or RL, you would SELL THEM.. Your mentality about "all should be free" it's particularly annoying to me, when comes from someone who contribute nothing to SL (not at economic or creative level). And about your point "that moralizing about theft is no deterrant to the thief", well..you can be sure that get again and again the account banned have discouraged a lot of thiefs. Go ahead and comeback to "The Sims", you are now in wrong place.

Linden Lab no se molesta en banear la MAC sin ningun motivo...es mas, normalmente lo hacen cuando ha habido algo "gordo" (repetidas violaciones del TOS) y es la ultima medida disciplinaria que toman ( normalmente solo se limitan a suspender la cuenta sin banear la MAC). Estas seguro de que tu ordenador esta "baneado"? No sera algun problema tecnico del ordenador que no permita entrar en SL (tipo algun problema con la grafica)? Si de verdad a esta persona Linden le hubiera baneado la MAC no me parece bien que se vayan dando consejos de como puede "saltarse" ese baneo...como he dicho, un baneo de la MAC no viene por nada.

I saw the pics on the Marketplace and Brazen Women skins have poor quality in my opinion. They look like skins of some years ago. Looking for mature look, Pulse or Redgrave offers skins more realistic and detailed.

Hello. I not agree at all about all the people encouraging Deja to send a counter-notification. First of all you should be absolutely sure that there has not been a copyright infringment, and sorry but that's not possible when you are not the creator and you bought the sculpts full permission from someone else.You do not own the copyright. Why the seller of the sculpts full perms have removed the products on the marketplace? That's suspicious. He explained the reason? To me looks like if the sculpts were stolen and removed after a previous DMCA, and now the original copyright owner found your product. But again, the point is that you cannot send a DMCA or counter-notification if you do not own the copyright. Just imagine that you bought stolen sculpts and now after filed the counter notification you get a citation to the court (yes, we know it is very difficult to happen) but, are you sure that you could prove that there has not been a copyright infringment, not being the creator either the copyright owner?

Be careful about "normal" shoes...if you're used to wearing shoes with sculpted feet, you will see the real ugly ankles of your avatar (with the "normal" ones). Don't expect the same result as sculptie feet shape, i recommend you try demos

Madre mia.....Jonyaranda, sin animo de ofender y viendo tu conocimiento acerca de lo que es el Mesh,los sculpts y los permisos de los items, yo lo que te diría (y no te quiero desanimar!) es que tengas muy en cuenta que no es NADA facil saber utilizar programas 3D. La mayoria de creadores con articulos de calidad son profesionales (que seguramente han estado unos añitos estudiando) y saben utilizar bien los programas que son muy complejos, tanto para crear figuras 3D, texturizar, etc... En fin tu prueba pero no te fustres porque no es moco de pavo!

Hola, estoy deacuerdo con vosotras. Enviar un ticket a Linden Lab o contactar con el vendedor son dos opciones validas. Yo personalmente prefiero contactar primero con el vendedor, en mi caso he obtenido resultados rapidamente. También creo importante comentar el hecho de que en SL deben haber cientos y cientos de fallos diarios en la entrega de items comprados, con lo que no me quiero ni imaginar la saturación que tendria Linden si todos enviaramos tickets pudiendo solucionar el problema de otra manera (contactando antes con el vendedor). Se que es su trabajo y para eso estan ^^ pero siendo realistas todos sabemos que el personal del que dispone LL es mas bien escaso. Con lo cual, creo que es positivo contactar primero con el vendedor para ver si nos reenvia el item en vez de saturar entre todos a Linden Lab enviando tickets por productos no recibidos. La mayoria de creadores de SL indican en su perfil como contactar con ellos cuando no se recibe un item y que hacer. Un saludo!!

Hola, me he decidido a abrir este post porque desde hace bastante tiempo veo gente que no tiene ni idea de que debe hacer cuando no reciben un producto comprado en Second Life (ya sea en mundo o por marketplace). Lo Primero: Si no has recibido un producto, envia una nota (los IM's no siempre llegan) al VENDEDOR del producto ( a quien le has pagado tus $L). Explicale en la nota el problema, y facilita la informacion de la transaccion de tu compra. En casi todos los casos el vendedor te enviará el producto que no recibistes ( a no ser que topes con algun borde que pase de todo, lo cual es muy poco frecuente). Ahorrate enviar tickets a Linden por un item no recibido. Puedes estar mas de una semana esperando respuesta (si es que la recibes) lo cual entiendo, ya que deben estar saturados con tickets de este tipo.Tampoco cometas el error de dejar una mala puntuacion y comentario negativo en Marketplace sobre el producto que no has recibido SINO has contactado antes con el vendedor. Esta practica esta ultimamente muy extendida y roza lo absurdo....el vendedor no puede saber que tu no has recibido su producto sino contactas con el, por lo que descargar tu fustración usando los "reviews" es bastante injusto.... Lo dicho, es mas facil de lo que parece. Contacta con la persona a la que le has comprado el producto y ten un poco de paciencia. Saludos!