Medhue Simoni

If you use Blender, and get Avastar, then you could have all the same morphs in Blender that we have in SL. You can even import your characters xml file, which has all your avatars shape data. It's a great program.

I imported both eyes separately and then linked them together inworld.

You have to move the eye bones to fit your character, with the swivel point being the center of the eye object. Then, you just weight the eye objects to the eye bones.

Sassy Romano wrote: Yes but probably 99% of those purchasing mesh items in SL don't care. Their questions are not what is my rendering cost? What is the creation tool? What is the topology like? etc. Their questions are usually:- Does it look good? Can I afford it? (for items on land, What's the land impact?) Well, what many people do do is comparison shop. If they see 2 things around the same price, they will check out both. If 1 is all filled in with the appropriate info, and the other is not, given the quality is similar, they will choose the 1 with all the info. At least, that is what I'd do.

Czari Zenovka wrote: My point is that you asked for people's opinions on an idea you have and you have received responses. My suggestion at this point would be to take the route that Toysoldier did with the idea for landmarks that moved with an avatar, thus not having to send out new lm's each time one's business moved to a new location. He first asked for opinions in the Merchant Forums (which you have done here with your idea), then contacted someone in LL who heads up the particular division - in that case I think it was the Viewer group. He then went to a public "office hours" and presented his idea. From the transcripts I read, several Linden employees thought it was viable. In the meantime, Darrius developed just such a system that he currently sells. Whether LL will one day decide to implement the idea within their viewer (which was the original proposal) remains to be seen. Yeah, their idea was a good 1 and it is great to see they could move the project along. I have no intention of doing anything beyond throwing the idea out there. It's a thought. I put it out into the ether. What happens now is irrevelant. I've made my case for the concept as fully as I could. My goal is achieved. I have no other expectations.

Czari Zenovka wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: With SL writing all the code, this seems to me to be one step closer to turning SL into a glorified MMO.... ....which is probably what Rod wants. I'd be totally against it. I know lots of people talk about this, "Rod is going to turn SL into a game", but I just don't understand what all the hysteria is. People act as if better games in SL some how takes away from the SL we all know and love. I don't see how it does. It's still SL but with better games. Who wouldn't want that? Obviously some don't, but I have yet to hear an actually reason that isn't based on nostalgia. I am basing my opinion neither on hysteria nor nostalgia, but on Rod's own words when interviewed. He stated he had planned to start a company to create things "HE" wanted, ie. games based on "creative spaces" and since becoming LL's CEO has proceeded to do just that - spend LL time and resources in apps that, as has been stated in another thread currently running, are more transient and games like "Patterns." We wonder why issues that have been plaguing us as merchants using the MP are left hanging for months/years or given partial "fixes" and declaring the issue "completed" (ie. some of us STILL having mixed listings in our MP stores, although we have been told the issue was "solved"), etc. Once LL starts addressing current issues, I would be more open to new headaches features. Sorry, I didn't mean to lump you in with every1 with similar conclusions. I agree that it is somewhat heartbreaking to watch LL work on these other things instead of SL. They have been investing time and resources here tho. The Shining project, or whatever it is called, is a needed project. Materials is a vast improvement. Of course, mesh is major. Maybe these aren't what some would prefer LL work on, myself included, but it would be unfair to say LL isn't doing anything in SL. Totally with you on the MP crazyness. It's definitely not an area where LL is impressing any1 involved.

Czari Zenovka wrote: Freya Mokusei wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system. I've never played a game with all of this in it. I don't think LL should spend their time chasing imaginary money on a premise as flimsy as 'But we don't have a system for everything yet!' - there's no way that ONE implementation of a specific system is going to have everything (OC, my example, doesn't by far) and no way that LL will be able to create one that does. (Sorry for all the totem posts...I respond as I read through a thread...anyway...) Exactly so, Freya. I've only played EQ, EQII, Star Wars Galaxies, and WoW, but they (and more recent games) have the same basic dynamics; the setting is generally what differs. Even within games that "have everything," the majority of players with whom I have come in contact over a 15-year stretch (probably 100's including various guilds & personal friends) very, very, VERY few people want to "do everything." There are huge amounts of people who join "elite guilds" to do basically nothing but largescale raids; some people want to level up as quickly as possible then start a new avatar or go to a different game; some enjoy tradeskills (creating the food, potions, clothing, etc. that enhance an avatar's stats); some enjoy questing and only engage in fighting/battle/killing something if it furthers the quest. One of the reasons I have remained in EQ for so long is that I wanted to make my avatar "well-rounded" - my play style in MMORPGs is a combination of leveling, learning tradeskills, and questing - all intertwined. I'm sure there are others who play in similar fashion, but it is more rare than the "Level as quickly as possible, get the most uber gear possible, and join the "best" guild" approach. I think you are making my point for me. The reason you want "everything" in a game is that there is something for every1. SL is more perfectly suited to this than any other world. It is because of the vast number of creators in SL that something like this is extremely viable. At least IMHO.

Sorry, I don't see any1 having to go out of business. Spellfire may have some of the features I've talked about but it certainly doesn't have all of them. Some of the parts only LL can make good, as they are the only 1's allowed to alter the server code and the viewer code. Right now, as far as I know, there is no good way to make a sniper rifle. The zoom is primitive at best. With LL working on the system, they have a vested interest in polishing things like this up. Don't get me wrong here. Again, I'm not trying to put down the different combat systems out there. In my opinion, if you've spent the time and created a system using only LSL coding that people are actually using, you've done something exceptional. That said, the reason so many think SL combat can't be good, is because of what they have seen so far. With LL working on it, there would be meetings were we'd all talk about how we'd like the system to work. We'd all add in your own experiences and the feedback we've gotten from customers. The whole point is to get the SL community to create for 1 core system. This is better for both the customers, and the developers. Well of course it will cause some upevil in the combat markets. No1 will be forced to go out of business tho. Each of the current systems have a following. That's what keeps them alive. All the meetings would be public, so we'd all know what is going on with the system and when it would be released. The owners of the different systems in SL would then have to make a decision to fully implement the new system, or not. Not implementing it would not be the death of their system, unless the LL system was vastly superior. If LL's was vastly superior, then the owner of the other system would have been naive to not implement it. Plus, the core of the system is just that, the core. If you look at every system made in SL, their core system would be crazy similar, and there is a dang good reason why. There just aren't that many good ways to do it. A owner of a system like spellfire could easily and pretty quickly mod LL's core system to work amazingly similar to their own system. They would still have their identity with this new system, and keep their core users. If the LL system was even remotely a success, every system would see a good increase in customers. Again, I don't see where any1 needs to go out of business. Of course, they can make decisions that harm their own business. LL's would simply just be another system, but completely opensource for any1 and every1 to use.

Maximillon Lefavre wrote: LL can't even code these forums right to disallow all these escort spam posts and you expect them to code something as complex as a combat system accurately. Seriously dude that's really laughable. You could have a good point, but considering that quite a few Lindens came from game companies, I would expect them to have more experience that most. As I said early, I spent almost a year making a combat system. No, I did not code it, but helped with some coding, and I lead the developement. In many ways, I think we were trying to recreate the wheel, but I think I got some good insight into how it can all work in SL. Personally, I love the system we made, and wish I could find a competent coder to take over. I don't see that happening, and I'm not sure how profitable the end result will be. Yeah, it would be cool tho. If 2 non gamers, with only 1 being a competent coder, can figure out a combat system that does things that no other system does in SL, I would hope LL could put together a small team of competent guys that should be able to blow us away. The end result being an opensource system that every1 can use. Within a year, just about anything any1 bought in SL would be a dynamic object in a game. You can shoot it, throw it, break it,or whatever, with any gun, bat, shoe, or whatever. Every campfire could burn you. Any animal could attack you. I could go on and on.

Maximillon Lefavre wrote: SL as a virtual world is what you and other residents make of it. Thus, if you want it to be like WoW then go ahead and attempt to make an SL combat system and roleplay area to be like WoW. I'm sure you'd make a killing in profits off of it. Furthermore, you suggest that LL should write all the code but that's pointless unless they wish to attempt to turn this into a game like WoW which would then be pointless for you to create animations for SL any longer because they wouldn't need you for that. You suggest that you welcome the competition but you don't get it, they wouldn't allow you to compete with them if they were to create all the animations as they would stop allowing animations to be uploaded and sold in-world. I get why you're posting this because you lack the ability to create SL scripts from scratch because you're not a programmer/coder. So I ask why should LL put the programmers/coders out of business and allow the animators continue to do business in SL? That was the point of my original post which obviously was lost upon you. SL was free the last time I checked. For LL to create all of the scripts necessary to meet the needs of all residents wants and desires would require extensive man power and coding hours. This would force them to no longer offer you and all the other residents access to SL for free. WoW isn't free and there's a reason why. I don't suppose you just give away your animations for free either so why should LL write all the code for every script needed and wanted by all residents and just give it away for free. The name of this thread is just a headline to draw readers in. In no way am I saying LL should write all the code. This is quite obvious in my opening statements. My idea is to persuade LL to write the complex code that is not normally viable for independent developers to create. An intricate combat system fits that bill, which is why I'm using it as an example. It's the same concept as every1 using the SL avatar to create for. With every1 focusing on 1 system, the customers would have something that works with everything else. For the developers, they will make more money because everything is compatible. I seriously doubt any coder would be put out of business. On the contrary, I could see those coders be thankful that LL did all the head banging stuff, and they can focus on the fun stuff. It's Highly unlikely that any developer in SL is going to have the time to develope any good combat system. I'm not trying to knock the systems that are out there, just being honest so that we can make a better experience for the users. Look at any platform which allows the community to mod things. I came from the original CryEngine editor directly into SL. So, I was used to the format of premade scripts and systems. Look at Unity, there are now hundreds of premade systems that developers can buy. Because of this, Unity is getting more and more popular. This was not the case when it was first released. Why? Cause you needed to be a hardcore coder to create in it, or at least have a good coder as a partner. We have that same issue in SL. When I came in, I was astounded that we kind of had to write our own code. I figured tho, that the market would work this out and coders would release packages and write custom code, which they did. Writing head banging code like combat systems is a whole other animal tho. As for your example of animations again, I don't think you understand. It's a bad example. No person in their right mind would stop allowing animation uploads. I have easily made more animation for SL, all by myself, than WOW has in their whole game. My animation library is somewhere near 15k animations. Probably more. No company could ever pay the animators in SL enough to do what we have all done on our own. If LL insanely thought they could replace what we have done, like you, they don't understand the scope of the issue. My point is not to put any1 out of business, but at the same time have LL add value to their platform. The add ons to something like a combat system would be more than enough work for SL coders. That is why I'm arguing for LL to do this. It adds value to their platform. This is something that could actually bring more people in. I have yet to see any tech platform make money without the users finding a way to make money also. This is why SL got popular. It was sustainable. Since it's initial popularity, very little has been added where user can directly profit off something LL did. We got the SL avatar. Now we have mesh, which is a big deal. Pathfinding is an important feature also. What I'm talking about, I think, could be bigger than mesh and pathfinding, and probably bigger that the SL avatar.

Oh, and before some1 comes back with another LAG comment, I'll address that now. Lag is a product of bad allocation of resources from the sim owners and users, and slow internet connections. I rarely defend LL, but I certainly will in the case of LAG. There is no other issue that LL has worked on more, and they really have eliminated most of the LAG associated with the platform. Now, it's up to the creators and users to make good decisions about how they use the resources. I'm actually quite amazed at how far you can push it.

Maximillon Lefavre wrote: LL should create all the animations too. Oh wait, I guess then that would put you out of business, huh? Ummm, no. That's pretty laughable actually. The animation market is nothing like the coding market in SL. LL couldn't find enough animators to put any of us, that live off our profits in SL, out of business. I sell animations across 7 platforms, and 4 of them have nothing to do with LL's source code. What I do in SL, I can do on almost any platform. I also have to beat clients away to work on my own projects. Like I said, your statement is laughable. That all said, I'd have no problem at all with LL hiring animators. I'm really not afraid to compete directly. You shouldn't either. There are many competent animators already in SL that I have to compete with. If I didn't have to compete, I definitely won't be as good as I am. My point is not about competition tho. It's not even about combat systems. It's about coming to a conclusion that it is not feasible for independent developers to create complex systems. Yes, we see them in a few areas that are highly profitable, as in breedables. The profitability brings the innovation. A combat system, like I described, is many times more complicated than some breedable, and the profitability is not as obvious. Every1 would benefit from a large project like this though, even the coders. LL would just be doing the heavy lifting. The last point I want to make directly addresses your comment about combat in SL. LL needs new markets. The fact that the combat market is, as you say, 10% means that is a good market to go after. You seem to think that SL combat can not be as good as WOW, and I call total and complete BS. It's quite sad that you think so. SL has all the core parts it needs to create a combat system that could not only compete with the likes of WOW, but far surpass it because SL has functions that WOW will never, ever have, and a broader audience. We also have the creators to quickly fill any RPG with content, as long as the profitability is there. With LL writing the core of the code, it takes a huge burden off any1 wanting to create and engaging combat experience in the world of their choosing.

Medhue Simoni wrote: Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system. I've never played a game with all of this in it. I don't think LL should spend their time chasing imaginary money on a premise as flimsy as 'But we don't have a system for everything yet!' - there's no way that ONE implementation of a specific system is going to have everything (OC, my example, doesn't by far) and no way that LL will be able to create one that does. First, I'll agree that there is no game that does everything. That said, there is no reason it can't be done. It's really not that complicated. Give me a decent coder and another year of work on my own system and it will easily do everything I've talked about here. Heck, adding a farming system to my system is literally a few lines of code in the plant. A mixing system to make food would take a bit more time. Once the core of the system is done with all the plugins, the actual side systems, like a farming system or mining or animal skinning or whatever, are pretty dang simple. The code for each of those could be written in an afternoon. Having a vehicle take damage is not more than 20 lines of code. Heck, you could even make it explode, kill the drive, and rez a different model of the vehicle all blown up. The complicated part is the core of the system. Most of the side systems are as easy as pie to do, but you have to have a core system that can handle them.

Innula Zenovka wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: Doesn't the answer to "are any of those systems any good?" depend on what you want the system to do? I mean, if I'm interested in WW1 arial dogfights between biplanes, or WW2 tank battles, I'm probably not too bothered about whether the combat system I'm using involves farming or hunting. Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system. In your view. An alternative view would be that, if all I'm interested in is naval sea battles, then the hunting and farming parts of the system are useless bloatware, just as if I'm interested in fighting in Gor, I'm going to be far more interested in how well the melee weapons work than in how aviation (tarns?) does. The point is to make 1 system that every1 uses. This works out best for all parties involved. When you buy a gun, it works everywhere. If you mine salt peter you get gunpowder for all weapons. If you also get a bi-plane, it can be shot down by the gun. If you get a naval ship, it can be attacked by the bi-plane. The most common thing any weapons merchant will hear is, "Is this compatible". The customer is always fearful of wasting their money on things that aren't compatible, hence why no1 wants to give a new system a shot.

Innula Zenovka wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: The bigger point that I would make is, are any of those systems any good? Do any of them utilize SL to it's fullest? Is there farming? Can you kill an animal and eat it? Can you skin that animal and get clothing from it? Why not? I could go on and on about what is possible yet no1 is doing. The other question is why aren't they doing these things? To me, that is easy to answer. They don't have the time or money to invent in the development. And .... those systems will stay in their current form until some1 with the time and money does make something better. I won't hold my breathe. Doesn't the answer to "are any of those systems any good?" depend on what you want the system to do? I mean, if I'm interested in WW1 arial dogfights between biplanes, or WW2 tank battles, I'm probably not too bothered about whether the combat system I'm using involves farming or hunting. Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.

Freya Mokusei wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: They don't have the time or money to invent in the development. And .... those systems will stay in their current form until some1 with the time and money does make something better. I won't hold my breathe. Sorry to pinch a post to someone else, but this caught my eye (and I lack posting-time today, but I hope to continue monitoring this thread). It is the fundamental weakness of SL, always has been and always will be - you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Significant large-scale development in SL is impossible because individual manhours stack poorly; a lone creator can spend six months on a single product, but there is no short-term reward for this. I have however seen this happen in another market, not combat. OpenCollar, a BDSM toy, is an open source (and free) set of restraints and controls for enthusiasts of that particular activity. It is massively common, has large-ish scale professional-level development behind it, has support for plug-ins, edits, mods, third-party APIs, etc. The net result of its sale is that developers do not build collars anymore - there is no market for it when OpenCollar scoops up new users, and typical users rarely buy two competing sets of the same toy (it's common in fact, to not realise that better, more detailed restraint systems exist). I think it may be an educational case study for this system you are proposing. Interesting case study, but I will point out that there is not much to a collar. What I mean is, it is all coding. Once you have the code, any1 can make a cylinder for a collar. So, I'm not sure it's a good comparison to a combat system, or avatar, which both have basically unlimited options. Yeah, the prices in the combat market would drop a little, cause there is no expense around the coding. The value centers more around esthetics rather than the coding. The end result tho, should be that more weapons are sold, as every1 can use those weapons everywhere. Your point about large scale development being impossible is exactly why I'm proposing that LL do the heavy work. The only reason I was able to spend amost a year on our combat system is because of my main sales selling AOs. Not many other people have that kind of luxury. I guarantee you that if LL did do something like what I propose, they'd make a heck of alot more money off just the sale of more land in SL, than any amount they made off their other projects.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: If i could make one point of constructive criticism.. You mention your combat system was not profitable.. I have an idea why. You prices are all over the place. Most weapon creators have a very tight range their prices fall into, yours run from $10L to $1099L.. which says to me that the person with the most money will win in your system. Now i notice you dont say how much damage each weapon does, so one would assume that the higher cost weapons do more damage. just my thoughts. not trying to attack or belittle. I may be totally wrong. and im sure someone will let me know if i am. Actually, the problem was not the cost, as any1 can use my system totally for free. Every part of my system has a free way, and a pay way, whenever possible. Yes, the more something costs, the better it is, or the quicker it does what it should. My system was just vastly different than any other system. It focussed on more realistic fighting, technique, and strategy, not who can hit keys faster. So, the core of the system and where it all started was in the hand to hand combat. Quite a few boxing venues and MMA places use my system. When I say it is not profitable, I mean for the time we spent working on it. Not a day goes by that I don't login and find some1 playing with it on my sim, killing all the NPCs. The people that learn it, love it. So, it wasn't a dud, but not what we expected. We actually stopped development after the initial release to work on other things and get a feel for the response of customers. Now, my old partner and coder is in medical school and I have yet to find a replacement to further they system. I doubt I'll ever go further with it, as the incentive just isn't there. Who knows tho, I still get asked about it pretty regularly, and those that do use it really like it. Oh, and the person with more money won't have a big advantage with my system. As I said, it's about strategy. A person could get the best melee hud and fight against some1 with the freebie melee HUD and still lose, if the other fighter can stay out of the range of his strikes. Stamina keeps the users from just swinging away at each other. Even the most expensive gun, the Tommy gun, won't be a huge advantage over some1 with a gun, if they know how to use it and don't waste ammo. That said, I'd rather have the Tommy gun. lol

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: Bree Giffen wrote: Yeah, one code would be great. Everyone re-inventing the wheel over and over is pointless. But it does somewhat marginalize the resident programmers right? If I've properly understood what Medhue is suggesting (and I may not have), I don't think it would make much difference to most people who script weapons. I don't do much weapons scripting now, but when I do, it's people saying "I've made a new pistol/sword/longbow/RPG/Ground to Air missile and I'd like you to script if for such-and-such a combat system." If it's a system I'm familiar with, I can use that system's API to make the weapon behave as the maker wants. That's all pretty straightforward, if you know what you're doing (simple scripting and looking stuff up in a pile of notecards, usually) and it's by no means as interesting as making the weapon itself work nicely, in the sense of getting the animations to play at the right time, getting the used cartridges to eject from the pistol and so on. So what I think Medhue is suggesting is that LL should write a combat system, like one of the couple of dozen resident-made ones already in existence, and everyone should make stuff for that. It wouldn't really affect most scripters, I don't think. We'd just need to learn how to work with yet another system, but that's not a big deal. The bigger point that I would make is, are any of those systems any good? Do any of them utilize SL to it's fullest? Is there farming? Can you kill an animal and eat it? Can you skin that animal and get clothing from it? Why not? I could go on and on about what is possible yet no1 is doing. The other question is why aren't they doing these things? To me, that is easy to answer. They don't have the time or money to invent in the development. And .... those systems will stay in their current form until some1 with the time and money does make something better. I won't hold my breathe. Yes.. there are several Gorean systems that have farming, where you have to take different food stuffs to make a better meal. Spellfire has the same , even to the point of having to hunt and skin animals to make armor. or churning butter to make it. milking cows.. Heres the real question though.. How many people WANT to spend their time in SL, with all of the lag and crashes, doing mundane things to make stufff for RP? In an MMoRPG you buy thing at market already made.. If you want to improve an item you can do the mundane or just buy a better one. Well, correct me if I'm wrong here, but like 30k-50k people are logged in at any given time, and something like a million people log in every month, with over 10k new signups every day. Many of them doing much more mundane things than farming. I can't tell you why people do what they do, or why any1 with half a brain would play Farmville on FB. In my mind, I'd much rather do something like that in SL than some really bad 2d BS FB game. I guess I shouldn't say that, as I was contracted earlier this year to help work on a FB game. That was a poker game tho. They just lauched it a couple week ago too. lol Let me give another example from 1 of my personal experiences. Last year, I was approached about a game that people wanted to make, to give my advice. They were a Libertarian group that wanted to create a town where they could implement their ideology. The 2 things they needed were an economy and a combat system. I told them SL would be there best bet. The only problems were the initial cost for the sim, and the combat system. Of course I had mine, but it would've needed some extensive modding as mine is not fully functional in all the aspects they wanted. To use any other system would have been even more work. Basically, the project never went forward because SL didn't have these systems ready to go. The way I see it, if SL did have a complete and complex combat or rpg system for any1 to use and mod at will, any1 could create their own fully functioning world within no time. The system would never need to make a profit for those new worlds, as they didn't need to invest money into it. LL would sell more land to those that want to create their world. We see worlds like the Navi communities pop up after the AVATAR movie. I know a guy right now that is part of a group that are creating a Tron community. Combat or RPG systems are a problem for all these worlds, as well as paying for the sims. When the combat system isn't a noose around their neck, it makes things a whole lot easier on them.

Incoherendt Randt wrote: The new AO and other categories were added back in March, just like it says in the thread. Actually, the thread says May 1st before they start enforcing the new listings. I'm sure I saw nothing different in May, and not in June. They probably just got pushed back a few months. Again tho, my point is that nothing is said about it. I'm not used to companies changing stuff without release notes. I have been in SL a long time tho, so I should be used to it. lol

Innula Zenovka wrote: Bree Giffen wrote: Yeah, one code would be great. Everyone re-inventing the wheel over and over is pointless. But it does somewhat marginalize the resident programmers right? If I've properly understood what Medhue is suggesting (and I may not have), I don't think it would make much difference to most people who script weapons. I don't do much weapons scripting now, but when I do, it's people saying "I've made a new pistol/sword/longbow/RPG/Ground to Air missile and I'd like you to script if for such-and-such a combat system." If it's a system I'm familiar with, I can use that system's API to make the weapon behave as the maker wants. That's all pretty straightforward, if you know what you're doing (simple scripting and looking stuff up in a pile of notecards, usually) and it's by no means as interesting as making the weapon itself work nicely, in the sense of getting the animations to play at the right time, getting the used cartridges to eject from the pistol and so on. So what I think Medhue is suggesting is that LL should write a combat system, like one of the couple of dozen resident-made ones already in existence, and everyone should make stuff for that. It wouldn't really affect most scripters, I don't think. We'd just need to learn how to work with yet another system, but that's not a big deal. The bigger point that I would make is, are any of those systems any good? Do any of them utilize SL to it's fullest? Is there farming? Can you kill an animal and eat it? Can you skin that animal and get clothing from it? Why not? I could go on and on about what is possible yet no1 is doing. The other question is why aren't they doing these things? To me, that is easy to answer. They don't have the time or money to invent in the development. And .... those systems will stay in their current form until some1 with the time and money does make something better. I won't hold my breathe.

Sy Beck wrote: Why do you assume that LL would or could write a good complex script? Every TPV for example has more functionality, utility and a better UI than the LL viewer. Is your view though that if LL code it then it will be opensource and can then be easily monetised by anybody else who can add a bell and whistle to it without having to do the majority of the work involved? Yes! The concept is akin to the SL avatar example. Instead of dealing with licenses for all the different systems in SL, you'd be dealing with no licensing and code that every1 has access to. Your point about TPVs having a better UI is an opinion. Yeah, some TPVs have some interesting functionalities. Whether they are needed, wanted, or a complete waste of time, could be debated. I tend to not use TPVs cause I don't enjoy searching for an hour to find a check box to turn some BS off. Plus, I just want to point out again, that some nobody coder in SL has no pull on fixing something or adding a function to SL. With LL dedicated to developing different complex systems in SL, they will more clearly see the issues, and possibly fix them, or add something to make it easier. Imagine this also. Combat systems need servers to hold stats. What if LL made the whole system, and handled the servers? I'm talking about alot more than just a combat system tho.

Freya Mokusei wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: LL has access to things no1 else can touch. If LL needs to change something major to make things better, they can. No coder in SL can compete with that kind of access. Where is your evidence for this? LSL scripts use publicly-available functions; the one instance of LL using their own codebase (Linden Realms) has hardly been trouble-free. It's easily cheated, the scripts are at least as clumsy as any random user-written example of code. LL didn't leave it to us to create things like AOs, combat systems (that don't just act as damage points), poseballs, walkers, titlers, collars, etc etc simply because they thought it'd be a fun activity for players of their game to come up with their own toys. They did it because they don't know how or why these things would be necessary, and because they wanted a world full of content without having to do any of it themselves. Considering both the above, LL are not capable of consistant and successful deployment of any system to a grid-wide audience (Linden Realms is, at best, a niche product), written in LSL or otherwise. If we left this stuff to LL it would take months to arrive and then be faulty out of the box. They lack the development power to do it as well as you seem to imagine they can (again, if you have evidence to the contrary I would love to see it), and they lack the insight and experience of the in-world environment to know what residents want from their scripts. I find it hard to believe that a Linden could write a script to be any more functional in SL (considering all the hacks, tweaks, oddities required to code in LSL) than any random user, let alone a resident with experience. This also makes no mention of LL's current disinterest in developing for SL. I can't personally see them spending time working in our world, developing in LSL when they could be playing with their new toys. Valid points, but I have seen some good code from them. I even gave an example, which was that script for animals and the pathfinding system. Another point I will make is that Rod recently said, LL is mostly coders now. If I'm working for LL, I'd much rather be writing code for games, than fixing many of the bugs in SL. lol

I'm the person that asked Dakota for these new AO categories. I've been waiting since, which was well over a year ago. I have been checking periodically since. Go look, there is only a few AO merchants that have changed their listing, and there aren't even enough listing enhancements to fill the page. There are almost 2000 AOs in the AO category and only 10% of them have updated their listing. Is there some reason that you are questioning me? Or do you just believe everything LL puts in a wiki?

Incoherendt Randt wrote: They did tell us and asked for ideas, even had a contest. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Be-Heard-Proposed-New-Marketplace-Categories/m-p/1941683 http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Inworld/Second-Life-Marketplace-Category-Contest/ba-p/1732033 Those are almost a year old. This change was made within the last month. Plus, the changes that are mentioned here were implemented months and months ago. I really don't need to know they are doing this or that a year from now. What is extremely important to know, is when something was just changed.

TDD123 wrote: Aready in existence elsewhere based on the Source-engine bye Valve Software. Maybe LL should hire coders like these. Gary's MOD is not SL and never will be. Personally, I'd rather play with CryEngine3 or Unity rather than some seriously old hacked game.