[What do you think about Automated Transport Vehicles on Mainland?]

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

At the least we'd need them to be better at not going 'off route'. We'd need them to not collide with objects so people on the roads didn't have freak outs. And we'd need them to know to self destruct if something did go wrong - but of course that might never work as when scripts crash, they crash... But it can be thought about and maybe there is a way to make them and make them liked.

 

Well, all the automated vehicles I know up to date, are set to phantom, so they don't literally crash into anyone or anything, and most of them are scripted to self-delete after getting stuck somewhere unable to get back on their route. The big caveat of this is one thing: people that know oh so much about land settings disabling scripts on their roadside parcels, and leaving autoreturn off. They prevent the vehicles from deleting themselves and also trap them by the lack of autoreturn. Even I have a script in my personal vehicles that reports me the vehicle's location if it gets lost and who knows where it ends up - the results are sometimes really amazing for what they are - but obviously, if some people were so clever to disable scripts and keep autoreturn off as well, it's only the visual and area search methods that can help to find what you lost. I'm just glad that isn't too common.

And bad crossings are likely going to be a thing in the future too, the updated crossing code made things worse in some aspects, while the only real good aspect is drastically reducing the crossing time, so it's unlikely that vehicles, automated or not, won't end up on roadside or waterfront parcels.

[What do you think about Automated Transport Vehicles on Mainland?]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

All that said, I do think there's a tacit assumption that such vehicles share resources, and need to be responsibly scripted and operated for the commonweal, not interfering with the average user's experience of the Mainland -- explicitly including sim performance, viewer rendering, and just in general not getting in the way of other experiences, vehicle-based or otherwise. That is, to operate autonomous vehicles on Linden land is not a Mainland birthright; if suddenly everybody in Bay City started operating automated milk trucks, some compromises would need to be negotiated.

 

I actually had a few experiences like that too, one in Bay City and the other one on Satori, where quite poorly made automated vehicles really started to occupy the roads, like in BC they went around even the airport close to the runway, and in the docks, and the Satori ones were simply oversized and drove in the middle of the road. Both ended up invading the roads not in the 1 per 10 minute or so manner, but in dozens per minute, and after some kind requests and suggestions on how to make them better, their owners rather decided to turn them off. So definitely, they have to be made carefully and precisely to work as you described, otherwise it can easily ruin the experience for others, even if not intentionally.

[What do you think about Automated Transport Vehicles on Mainland?]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

There is however one aspect of the automated vehicles we've never discussed before and I think we should consider: they move. One of SL's biggest flaws is that it's too static. Too often it seems more like a three dimensional picture than a living, dynamic world.

 

I like this! One thing that really impressed me, and still does, maybe while learning it, it's getting even more impressive, is the overwhelming amount of scripted stuff to do various things. So basically automated vehicles can make the world look more dynamic and vivid even without people, which on one side definitely defeats the "transportation" aspect, but on the other one, helps to make the places where they "move" more lively.

I'd definitely like to see much more traffic with real people on mainland, and there are populated areas like the Blake, which is definitely buzzing with people using their own air- and watercraft, there are regular sailing, flying and driving group events, etc, so it really depends on when and where you are at the moment. I always like to see people passing by, and I see the automated vehicles as a form to promote mainland activities - who knows, maybe the random person that comes across riding one of them while I'm driving my car, will get motivated to get a car too and start to drive on the roads regularly?

[What do you think about Automated Transport Vehicles on Mainland?]

We had a topic about YavaScript Pods in particular last weekend, out of an issue that has been since resolved. However, one thing that I found really amazing was that many people took the time to share their opinions and experiences about the Pods, and some other means of automated transportation on Mainland were mentioned as well. As I am a fan of these automated vehicles since I stepped out onto a mainland road the first time when I joined SL, I was glad to see so many opinions about them, but it was mainly focused on the Pods there. Now I'm curious what people think about the automated vehicles in general, and the different ones in particular.

These include the Yavascript Pods, the distinctive green SLGI ships, Bay City's Public Transport, the maglev railcars of the Okemo, Nakiska and Southern Railway (ONSR) in the Snowlands, and of course anything that's automated and runs on Mainland.

What do you think about them? What experiences do you have with them? Which one is your favorite? I'd like to hear any opinions and experiences, good or bad, and pro/con arguments are welcome too, just please keep it civilized. If you know about more automated vehicles running on Mainland, feel free to tell about them too! Maybe this topic can help us explorers, and new people to find more fun ways to see Mainland and get to know it from another perspective!

[Political Ads No Longer Allowed on Your Land]

It's a bit of a double-edged blade effect. I consider myself politically neutral and I actually never bothered with political signs on Mainland other than the outright offensive ones. For example, as she said above, BilliJo indeed had a lot of small ad parcels with a Trump 2020 sign on each, in an entirely peaceful manner. I know several people that had problems with them, I have even let her know when some people managed to abuse those tiny parcels by boxing them and such... the point is, when it's on the land you own and the sign isn't offensive in any way, I think it isn't a problem. My personal opinion of course.

 

On the other hand, in May, one certain person started a spam campaign with signboards that feature several messages, regularly switching them on its faces, and he typically puts them on others' unattended lands on roadsides on all continents. The messages vary from blaming "The Government" and "Congress" for "Freedom and Liberty lost in America", to other similar offensive kind of messages suggesting an anarchist attitude. One particular message was "The largest threat to the American way of life is a Democrat". As of now, it has affected more than 100 parcels (with basically 1 of these objects placed on each land), with more than 80 already removed, and about 20 still left on parcels. It's a struggle to monitor them and definitely a struggle for Lindens to deal with it as well, especially since the person created another alt this month to put up new objects again.

 

Looking at the rules Lucia linked, I hope the decision was made in order to effectively cut back that spam attack (and to prevent others) in the first place (now I really regret that I didn't find time to go to the meeting but oh well), since that thing is a clear abuse even on the previous terms. I've seen a few sims with Trump and Biden signs facing each other, and "Any functional adult 2020" signs too, but personally, I just laugh at them when they're put up next to or facing each other, as they nearly aren't as annoying, and definitely not offensive, unlike the spam campaign I described. And when they're on the owner's own land, I really say it's something that the owner should have a right to, as long as it's being done in a peaceful and civilized manner.

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

So now we can call this topic "Start of a new Era, MORE Pods!" Yay!

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

I think despite the title, this turned out to be an overall positive topic. Several people came here and took the time to show their appreciation towards the pods, and shared their memories about them. Some came here to tell they don't like the pods and automated vehicles in general. It's important as well. The fact that we have opposite opinions and put up an argumentation on it isn't a bad thing, it is something we can learn from, even if we can't convince each other, we get to know the other person's point and maybe we are able to see things from their point of view a bit, too. As I see, (it might be subjective) we managed to keep it civilized, with only some dense sarcasm.

I'd definitely keep this topic for the appreciation of the pods and the different opinions that we collected, but certainly, if you don't like where it's going, do as you wish. If you want the topic deleted, I can make a pod appreciation topic later to keep raising awareness of their importance.

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It doesn't matter if the scripts consume tiny amounts per vehicle. The point is there are -- were, until now -- A LOT OF THEM coming ALL THE DAY and ALL OVER THE MAINLAND. Shut them ALL off and you saved a lot of resources. Have them rez on demand, and you save resources. This is not rocket science. Everyone knows about scripts that it is not any one script or any one time but the CUMULATIVE effect of MANY.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Whereas anyone who lives and works on the mainland and sees many sims a day know THERE WERE NO AVATARS IN THE PODS. THEY WERE EMPTY. THEY WERE SPAM. THEY SHOULD NOT BE BROUGHT BACK IN THIS FORM.

 

Now this overuse of caps really makes you seem like you started to yell to try to make us listen to you, y'know? Other than that, there's not too much to say to it, you've said the same things before, just not in caps. Some of us that reacted already didn't agree with you on these points, so capitalizing them won't make a difference, sorry.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I pay for the land where I have scripts, and I generally try to keep them low lag. Yavanna does not pay tier for public roads in SL. There is this notion from the fangirlz here that she is providing "a service" and therefore it doesn't matter. But I not for having ANY one resident have access to ALL public roads or spaces. It's just not right. And only a tiny handful use this "service" that could be met by rez on demand instead of endless spam.

To compare some petition board (low script time) that is for a good cause -- taking giant, ugly domes out of the visibility area of the sky -- to somehow contrasting unfavourably with the steady stream of spam cars lets me know how far you are reaching and stretching to make a point. Look at yourself.

 

This is actually a huge contradiction in itself. You say you pay for the land where you have scripts, then in the next paragraph you say the petition against the Bella Pointe domes is for a good cause. They pay for those lands as well. To me it looks like you just want to ban them from your view, just like the pods, and it doesn't matter to you whether what you don't like is on public or private land, you just want to apply your own rules to both. It's funny while I'm driving on Corsica now, I spotted another of your petition boards that I haven't noticed before. Now I know 3 of them. It's starting to be spam.

The other part of the same contradiction is "Yavanna does not pay tier for public roads in SL." Hello, you know, it is public, of course she doesn't. I don't pay for using the road particularly while I drive on it either. Public works should be financed by taxes. Let it be premium fee, the upload fees of everything or marketplace commission, but unless LL introduces a "road tax", it's obvious that the public lands are provided for public use for free.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's like the sheer blindness people bring to GTFO which spams up skies and roads with ugly industrial builds

 

Oh, so now GTFO is bad as well? I wonder what would even be left for those that actually use the roads without GTFO and Drivers of SL associated roadside facilities, while many people, and you seem to be no exception, only want to be on roadsides to have at least one "protected" side of your parcel where you don't have neighbors (and it's appealing to most tenants as well), which saves you some trouble and still looks somewhat real as it isn't in the middle of nowhere, right? I mean, if the roads are full of these evil automated vehicles, and people that do GTFO and other stuff with their own vehicles, you could choose so many parcels which are not next to roads, and it would save you from the misery of having to see them all the time.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I marvel at how one person -- actually two, with the green buses -- can endlessly spam cars across the sims and the Lindens just tolerate it. It's not in their interests.

 

Actually, there will be even more, hopefully on Sansara as well. One that's being developed is going to have trucks, buses, police cars and all kind of stuff on the roads, and hopefully on railroad and even in air as well. Also, you seem to know Lindens' interests better than themselves, while @Patch Linden said their interests don't cross those of automated vehicles. Why don't you rather ask LL what their interests are instead of making these unsupported assumptions again and again... and again?

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Funny being that you are still seeing Pods today when the OP said they were turned off as of Friday. I am even standing on the road outside of my place for the past half hour and not seen one come by either way to confirm they are no longer running.

Most of us have long ago left that culture where hallucinations were the highlight of our day.

 

He secretly misses them so much he was not only able and willing to stand at a place to see them, but even managed to see them while they're turned off!

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

For more than a decade, I have watched them go by, and all of them are empty. All. I only hear on the forums that they are actually ridden.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What's false is

your claims about all of them being empty.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Again, the Lindens know this -- they have few riders, such as to justify their constant streaming as spam over sims. The Lindens have the facts on their server records. So it's silly to keep arguing about it and playing "gatcha". 

 

This is when you still don't bring facts into the game, Prokofy. You apparently ignored mine, or you just need time to prepare to respond with more unsupported claims, so I'll go ahead.

I worked for a public transportation company in RL. There, it is a really important question whether there are enough passengers on a service to make it necessary and sustainable, because maintenance costs and the drivers' salary isn't cheap. Running buses that often go empty is money thrown out of the window, so demand and efficiency is key. If we were in RL here and not in SL, you would have a valid point, yet it still wouldn't be up to you whether public transport should run or not, but the operator and the client.

Back to SL, you keep talking about the pods unnecessarily consuming sim resources. It's a major flaw in your logic. This is still the same script info I showed in my previous post:

[14:32] Script info: 'YavaScript Pod V5.0 (MCT)': [10/10] running scripts, 304 KB allowed memory size limit, 0.030130 ms of CPU time consumed.

I haven't checked your objects in Ravenglass and Maryport (yet), but it's most likely they eat more resources per 24 hours than all the pods that passed through those sims within the same period of time. And those two sims have protected road going through them, so if you eat resources on your parcel, you affect the road with it as well.

If I follow your logic, I can say Lindens should ban everyone and everything that eat sim resources unnecessarily, to prevent the customers from "load-testing". If you don't use the seasonal texture changer in your trees, they eat resources unnecessarily. If nobody clicks on your anti-Bella Pointe petition boards at a time, they eat resources unnecessarily. If you wear any scripts on yourself that you don't use actively, they eat resources unnecessarily. Also, why would they run regions that don't have any privately owned parcel on them, let's shut them down. There are many of those in the middle of Corsica, for example (the Moon, as I call that area). Somehow, LL didn't do any of this, and it shows why your arguments don't make a point at all.

Things in SL should be here for fun, and to express ourselves. SL allows for a broad freedom if people don't abuse it, and if others don't try to ruin it. The pods don't have to be efficient. They have to be present on the roads and other public lands to promote them to random people, for fun. They cannot be even considered repetitive self-promotion (spam), because they promote mainland and a variety of sights and pieces of history behind them.

If you can't show a rule that explicitly prohibits the use of automated vehicles on mainland roads, you simply don't have any valid point against the pods.

 

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

57 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You have a fantasy about newbies, and a belief, and you can't back it up with facts.

All you have to do to prove this is to give us the numbers for how many people randomly ride the pods, and of these, how many are younger than 30 days. Even allowing for alts, that might give you some reliable figures about this claim. But you don't have those numbers; only the Lindens do. So you don't know whether your belief is fact; none of us do.

 

It's my personal experience, you know, I was a newbie when I joined SL. You've been one as well ages ago. I just don't have an idea what you've been doing back then. Go out to the roads, drive on them, instead of sitting constantly on your "50 sims at the same time", you'll see much more. One thing you're right about, I didn't count how many times I've seen newbies riding pods, but it was a common sight on the roads. I spend a lot of time on mainland roads monthly - about 3 hours per continent per week in average, coming from small patrols that last for less than an hour, to full Sansara, Satori and Jeogeot ones that can even last 10 hours that I have to break into several days - and it is enough time to see how things work on the roads. Sitting at one place, even if it's 50 places at the same time, is an entirely different experience. If you'd say you've never seen people riding pods in the Waterhead-Ravenglass area though, I wouldn't believe you, sorry.

 

57 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

They do not have a "neutral look". They are small little creepy pods from outer space that do not fit the themes of the overwhelming majority of sims they spam across, which are not outer space or the Jetson's.

 

The overwhelming majority of sims they spam across are abandoned lands. Anything fits in the theme of 17 year old deprecated bare terrain. When it comes to sims full of beautiful fullbright privacy screens and plants, or plywood prim builds, sure, they don't fit in the theme. They look much better than the theme. And if you take a look at the sims that have really nice builds on them, a few futuristic pods from "outer space" surely don't take away anything from the looks. Those really well made builds are not the majority of sims, they're unfortunately a minority. As I've said originally, this is a matter of personal taste. You just don't like the pods. It's okay. I don't like your anti-Bella Pointe petition boards either, yet I don't complain, I just laugh.

Wait, I even forgot: the pods have an open body, and don't even have fancy forcefields to keep air inside. They cannot be from "outer space" with that design. Of course when you realize there isn't even air in SL, you might want to get a rebreather quickly...

 

57 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Once again, if you put the stations every other sim, you can still find them easily when you have a whim to travel across the blasted post-apocalypse mainland (as you seem to imply), yet they won't spam all day and eat up resources and fill the view.

 

[14:32] Script info: 'YavaScript Pod V5.0 (MCT)': [10/10] running scripts, 304 KB allowed memory size limit, 0.030130 ms of CPU time consumed.

Yeah, definitely eating up resources. I swear I could even feel the sim shaking under my feet while I checked the pod's script stats, and it obscured the Sun from my view as it passed by on the road. Not.

[End of an Era, no more Pods.]

1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

That made me wonder if maybe a personal HUD Pod-Rezzer may work?  Those could work for anyone who knows what they are and wants to grab a tour.  I do think it's important for Noobs to see the pods in action and wondering where they were going was what first attracted me to them.  Maybe the automated ones could run from the Noob-spawn places to the nearest Pod Station, which explains what they are and how to use them, and great links to the routes?  

 

Alright, I guess I'll step in here as well with a few points. Generally, having more pod-stops and even a "Pod App" HUD to call a pod to a certain place would be technically possible. As some others already pointed out, it wouldn't consume less resources in the affected regions. The pods have a really low resource usage anyway.

 

The one thing that is really useful for some newbies, as it was for me as well, that when you join SL and have absolutely no idea about anything at all, and accidentally happen to end up on a mainland road while exploring random places the first time, you don't know anything about vehicles in SL, and you probably start to walk down the road. And the first moving thing to come by would be a pod, which you can hop on for free, and it takes you to places, and even tells a lot of info about everything! I spend a lot of time out on the roads, I've seen this happening quite often. Just as it was in my case, other new people starting to explore SL happen to wander on the road or preferably on the roadside, and I witness them hopping on the pod that comes by in either direction. It always reminds me that I've done the same, and it inspired me to get my own vehicles and be more active on mainland, and to spend time to try to make it better for those that use the public lands. If the pods don't cruise automatically on the roads (and other public places), newbies likely won't be able to even notice them. Walking past a building that says "YavaScript Pod Station" won't really make them stop and fiddle with things to realize they can rez a pod. I know. Even with my 10+ years of experience in games and virtual worlds, when I joined SL, while exploring things in the first month I had barely any idea of what I'm doing or where I am at all. My super-quick learning ability kicked in gradually only after getting a basic knowledge of things.

 

I also want to share a real life example in regard of "why would you take a public transport vehicle on the move instead of at a stop". This might be even two examples combined. I've done a lot of trips with friends and alone in real life, exploring my country by going out to places by train, bus, etc, and then to explore an area on foot, with nothing more at hand than what I had in my backpack. Now when you're out in the middle of nowhere, you can't even search on the internet on your smartphone, without sufficient signal. And when you're tired by the end of the day and every step makes you want to sit down and rest, you don't want to walk to a bus station or train station or something. You don't even know where it is. It has happened a lot of times that I only realized there was a bus service in the area because I saw the bus passing while I wasn't even near the road, and when I got to a bus stop I saw that the bus I've seen was the last one of the day. It's definitely better if you're at least on the road already, and you can hop on the bus "on the move". And this is what people have done in the early years of public transport everywhere in the world, and this is what they still do today in many countries. Mostly in the western culture we don't do this anymore since it's dangerous to hop on and off moving vehicles, and not effective for the provider of the service to stop for anyone in the middle of nowhere instead of only stopping at stops and keeping their schedule. In those parts of the world where this mentaility hasn't evolved yet, they still hop on and off the vehicles, even ride on the top, or hang on the sides, and buses and trams are more likely to stop to pick up someone wandering in the middle of nowhere. While definitely not the safest way to travel, it does give people one important thing: Freedom. They're not restricted to only board public transport at stations and stops, and not restricted to how they can actually use them.

 

That being said, and since this is SL, there are some aspects mentioned above that don't even apply here: 1, The public transport vehicle (like the Pod) won't be behind schedule by picking up passengers between stops; 2, There are no safety concerns for which you shouldn't hop on a moving pod. As a third point, I could even mention that SL is about the freedom we can have here, that we can't have in RL due to physical and legal restrictions. If I wanted to take this argument to an absurd level, I'd say, if anyone has a problem with how the Pods and some other automated vehicles in SL work, avatar flight could be entirely removed from SL as well if we don't want to have things here that are not realistic or don't fit in the environment.

 

Also, the Pods have technical advantages not even to other automated vehicles on Mainland only, but to most vehicles in SL in general: 1, They are small and have a neutral look; 2, They are set to PHANTOM. There's no way they can obstruct anything, at all; 3, They don't make any sounds while moving, except in railcar mode on the SLRR, where they simulate making contact with the rails; 4, They drive properly on the right side of the road (left side on "Sharp"), if you're not fond of driving through the phantom pod, you can properly overtake them, which makes them a proper AI traffic simulation. This point might not be important to many people, it definitely is for me, and yes, 99% of mainland road traffic were the pods, and it felt heartbreakingly lonely to drive on the roads already, now without the pods it is like driving in a post-apocalyptic world as the only survivor. Yeah, feel free to criticise this as being subjective and emotional, it's a vital part of being human.

 

All in all, whether the Pods should run automatically on mainland or not, is not a technical question, but a question of freedom. Why wouldn't they run freely on the roads, on the SLRR and on and above waterways, while they don't violate the rights of others? Those that don't want to see them based on anything they've mentioned, is just as subjective and depending on their personal taste, as the way many of us love the Pods. Just because one doesn't like how something looks, won't make a valid point questioning its rights to be in sight.

 

[Edit: Corrected my typo in "evolved"]

[Tilia takes over]

On 7/7/2019 at 3:44 PM, Blush Bravin said:

Tilia has no effect on anyone who simply sells their lindens for USD$. As long as you keep your USD balance in your account then fees for premium and tier will be taken from your USD$ balance. You will have to agree to the Tilia TOS only. If down the road your business takes off and you decide you want to withdraw funds (process credit) from your account, USD$ balance, then you will have to provide the necessary documents to prove your identity.

Alright, thank you! If the official standpoint is just like that, it doesn't seem to be bad at all. Except for the questionable wording of Tilia's TOS of course, but hopefully they will adjust it to be more reasonable.

3 hours ago, Rex Cronon said:

since tilia is a uk business that pays taxes to the queen, and since it will be taxing sl avatars, does that make all avatars british subjects since we will indirectly pay the queen taxes? imagine being an american and finding out on 4h of july that you might become again a british subject:)

I know you meant that as a joke, but it sounds like if I buy something on ebay from a UK citizen, who pays taxes for the Queen, and the product itself has been paid taxes for in the UK, I would become a "british subject". Fortunately, it does not work like that. LOL

[Tilia takes over]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already, I skipped pages 11-31 due to lack of time and all but one questions I would have seem to be clear already. The linked KB article didn't answer the remaining question either, but I'd appreciate if someone could point out to an existing answer for this:

Let's say, I'll start selling my creations, and IF they ever would generate sufficient income in L$ to cover at least a portion of premium or land tier fees when converted to real USD, how do these changes with Tilia affect that? With the fees on uploading each texture, animations, and land fees to own an inworld store, I consider this topic to be a huge concern to someone who wants to start their own "enterprise" in SL and turn eventual incomes back to keep their business running, as it seems to financially affect creators. (Note that I wouldn't want to use any L$ incomes to transfer to any bank or PayPal account, but to pay USD fees in SL.)

[What do you think?]

4 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Not worth going to take a gander at now. The ambiance has been destroyed.

Oh well, the great ambience, has been completely ruined now. Whoever passes by that road, cannot enjoy the pleasant view of a rotting corpse in the light of the setting sun anymore...

[What do you think?]

15 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Some people just can't stand it when others actually enjoy something they don't. Whoever did that, is pretty selfish and petty.

I won't deny that. At least being selfish, "can't stand it when others actually enjoy something they don't" is pretty subjective though.

Edit: We came to an agreement and the site looks like this now:

https://gyazo.com/27c729e3d2944efb055af595528eccc7

P.S.: I love the picture with the fire around the crate!