AlettaMondragon
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Posts posted by AlettaMondragon
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48 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:
Personally, I think Mainland should have granted landowners only very circumscribed powers over visitors, and that the Belli security protocol would have been better. Estates on the other hand could grant region or parcel owners whatever powers they want; nobody explores an Estate anyway, with very few exceptions.
This is especially interesting, because as I'm one of those very few that go to estates to explore as well, and my first thing to do at a new place is always to check the covenant or otherwise stated rules, I've noticed that many estates, and not only those connected to Mainland via the Blake Sea, but even smaller, 10-20 region estates have rules regarding vehicle use and security systems, which are similar to the rules on Belli and the United Sailing Sims estates, and the 3 most important and common were: 1, Orbs cannot be set to TP home, and must allow a certain time (usually above 30 seconds) to leave; 2, Orbs cannot reach higher than a certain altitude so that aircraft can pass freely (usually 50m above ground); 3, Banlines are disabled, and even individually banning someone should be consulted with the owner/manager first.
The only estates where I haven't seen such rules are those where there aren't roads, seas or any kind of infrastructure, so the usual residential housing sims.
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13 hours ago, AugustVonHelson said:
I need maximum security on my house, have ban lines turned on and security orb turned on always.
What you need is to learn how things work, first. (It's fine, we all do.) This article could be better, but it contains quite everything you need to know. The point is, if people are putting objects on your land, disable the checkbox at Build next to "Everyone" in the About Land>Options tab, also disable Object Entry there, and then to make things sure, set Autoreturn on the Objects tab to some 5-10 minutes. (Or 1, doesn't matter, if it's not 0 or ridiculously high, it's fine.)
Restricting the access of avatars on a parcel (banlines) doesn't have an effect on their objects (unless banned by name), so it's very important to use your land settings properly. Also, for sounds coming from outside your land, you can restrict sounds to your parcel at the Sound tab, so that you can only hear sounds from objects that are on your own parcel - and it's also good for others outside, when you use certain objects that make nasty sounds, or your stereo blasts punk rock at 3AM, etc.
If any object that refers to you, like a profile picture display, is not on your parcel, but on someone else's, and you think it isn't funny, you can try to politely speak with the object's owner about it, and if it fails, you can file an Abuse Report on it for, um, harassment, offensive behavior, things like that, but it will probably fail, because LL didn't restrict the use of objects that can display others' profile pictures. Maybe you could place one on your land as well, which would display random profile pictures too, including theirs, and see if they like it.
The stupid sound gestures in the presence of your GF are probably played by them. Some are cute, some are indeed annoying. Depending on whether you meant girlfriend or grandfather by "gf", you might try to speak with them kindly about the "sound issues they are having lately", or you could even look for someone else you can live with, if everything else fails.
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8 hours ago, animats said:
Actually, all hitting a ban line does is turn off physics. A script can back the vehicle out and turn physics back on. My bikes and a boat do that. Bumping into a ban line with a ground or water vehicle equipped this way is not a big issue.
This is true, I was talking about the situation where an orb ejects you from the parcel. In that case, it's not granted that your vehicle will even stop.
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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:
I can't say that what you describe has ever happened to me, but I'll take your word for it.
I wonder if it might not be feasible, technically, to send someone directly to the nearest rez zone?
It only happened to me like 3-4 times altogether, thanks to the fact that I don't dash through private lands unless it's entirely necessary. It has happened more that I got teleported home, and it might be just me, but it feels less uncomfortable, even if it's just as unfriendly as it can be.
Your question is interesting, it reminds me of a wiki article I once read about how teleporting and land access works (or at least has worked, because in reality now it sure does not work the way it was described there), but based on that, I wouldn't trust a makeshift algorithm trying to compute the nearest rez zone to teleport me to, in a split-second, once I'd suddenly trigger the function. Would it try to tp me to the nearest Linden-owned rez zone? Would it just select the first parcel with rez turned on? There are places where the nearest rez zone is several sims away (private lands included), but everything is full of abandoned land where you could be either teleported or otherwise moved. However, the absolute best for vehicle use would be a function to be able to move the vehicle with the operator sitting in it, like when it nonphysically moves by its own script, or when you reposition it in edit mode, that way let's say you enter the parcel where the security system spots you and wants you out, it would trigger this function, which would reposition you along with your vehicle to about 30 meters back the way you were heading. Or more. The point is, then you can stop, rethink your life and make another decision. And the stopping is actually an important thing, because if you combine reaction time, lag, "shock", and other factors, the worst thing is to have a message popping up saying you have like 5 seconds to leave. By the time you can effectively react, while your vehicle still moves into the parcel, the time is up. If you can stop outside of the parcel, you're safe.
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From a vehicle user's viewpoint, I can tell so much that teleporting home is much better than ejecting. It is technically better. If you're sitting in a vehicle, and you get ejected, you get unseated from the vehicle, and while usually it stops where it happened and gets returned to you, in some cases it can throw away the vehicle as well, or it keeps going in the direction it was, while you get thrown back the other way. After that, who knows where you land, sometimes on the top of a banlined parcel where flying is disabled, and you keep bouncing on the top of banlines until you teleport out or enable flight override. In some cases, landing on top of banlines caused weird glitches for me, similarly to failed region crossings. If you don't even remember where exactly this happened (and got thrown too far away), you won't even be able to get your vehicle (let's assume you wanted to, I do).
In contrast to this, when you get teleported home, you get a notification with the location's SLurl where you teleported from (if your viewer is set to do so), so you can go back if your vehicle didn't get autoreturned (or if you want to continue your trip from a nearby rez zone), you won't bounce on the top of banlines, won't occasionally land on other orbed parcels, etc. It is far safer to be teleported home than being thrown away in a random direction in an unknown sim, and if you were on a vehicle, the result of both is that your trip is disrupted, so then the safer and less uncomfortable option is the better.
I'd even go ahead and say, it's the eject function that I'd even remove from SL, or at least it could be improved to avoid making cannonballs of avatars.
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The feature to ban someone from buying your products is a huge double-edged sword. In general, it depends on how people use the feature, obviously. Like in groups, or on your land, you don't have to ban someone for anything just because you can, but some people do exactly that. And the reason in most cases can be as serious as "I don't like you, I don't want you to come to my land." Okay.
The same can happen if a person simply doesn't want certain people to buy their products, I guess. On one hand, the ability isn't entirely bad, since there are some lunatics that are willing to spend time and money on certain people's products on the MP just to leave negative reviews on them, and if the review itself doesn't violate the terms, flagging it wouldn't do anything. So, if a creator somehow managed to get such enemies (which is actually super-easy in SL), they might have reasonable use for the ban feature.
On the other hand, merchants can somewhat abuse the feature as well, of course, to avoid negative reviews, or "punish" certain people just like they try to do by banning them from parcel and groups, to show force. This is interesting, since the vast majority of merchants (even many popular brands in certain fields) work from full perm meshes and scripts, often not even bothering with making custom textures (whether it's a clothing item or a vehicle or anything else), but they just provide what the FP package already contained, and they put a price tag on it which might or might not comply with the user license of the FP item. And for some of these merchants, it was already a strategy to occasionally remove listings which got negative reviews, then they relisted them later. Being able to ban the person that left a negative review might be appealing in order to protect their low-effort business attempt. Although, does it also remove existing reviews from the person that they ban? If so, that really makes reviews quite pointless.
I personally don't have experience with this feature, and actually I don't really run into issues with items I buy either, since I am extremely picky and sit on a demo for even days to inspect it from all angles from 5cm distance in all possible poses (for clothes) to see if the rigging is good, fits my shape, etc, so that avoids unfortunate purchases and conflicts with sellers. It might have been like 3 occasions when I had any kind of issue with an item, once it turned out the merchant was right, the other case the seller got 3/5 stars since half of her outfit was great, the other half unusable (and there was no demo, for which I asked before the purchase and she said she can't give demo items), and the last one was a bit disappointing, since the creator that actually made her own meshes, and I have several of her items, was so reluctant to fix one tiny issue, that in the end I was glad she eventually gave me the fixed item, because it seemed like she wouldn't. However, it was well enough for me to decide, even if I liked her creations, I'll avoid that brand if it's so hard to fix one thing for a returning customer.
The point of the last paragraph is that as a customer, you have to keep your eyes open, and even if you're not as picky as I am, you can avoid a lot of unhappy situations and bad purchases. But whenever an issue would still occur, a good merchant should take the time and effort to try to resolve it. For that, though, it's not the MP review where they should first see the issue. I also state it on my listings that whatever issue or questions they have, send me an IM inworld to sort it out.
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4 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:
Don't know if it's just me but i've also noticed groups i'm in where the chat is normally active when i log in there are times it's not coming up until after being logged in a few hours or not at all
It started like that for me too, I got less and less group chat conversations popping up, missing ones that are normally always active, then last tuesday, after having only 2 popping up, since 9:00am SLT that day, there's no group chat for me, at all. Except one that popped up on Sunday with one post from someone, and then nothing more.
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There's an already known (and allegedly worked on) bug that affects group chat, and produces the errors you mention. If you absolutely cannot use any group chat now, well... welcome to the club!
I have that issue since Tuesday, on this account I don't receive any group chat from any group, I can open any group chat and try to post but it silently fails (no error messages coming back as usual). Since I noticed the problem, I tested it with an alt, on different viewers (FS, SL), reset settings, checked everything on my end (viewer, connection, antivirus settings), so basically I sorted out everything on my end that could cause any issues. Also, on my alt everything works fine with the same viewer settings and connection, so... it can't be that anyway.
I also filed a JIRA bug report (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-229371) and so far the few people I spoke with about this, are completely puzzled about it, so I'm waiting for LL's response in this issue. One thing for sure, not receiving ANY group chat for 6 days, especially in a situation we're in, is overly frustrating.
As a direct answer to your question (I almost forgot about it, LOL): There's nothing really we can do than waiting for LL to fix it, in the meantime you can file a support ticket at https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/tickets/new and specify the issue as much as you can, and wait for a response to your ticket.
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2 hours ago, LibGwen said:
I remember a similar discussion in the forum a couple years ago. Fundamentally, you're arguing that SL's continents need more biomes than "granite", "green grassland", "coastal", and "underwater". Plus "snow" in Sansara.
I'd just switch the moonstone (granite looks better) textures to sandstone, and where it applies (mostly Corsica) would make things look much better.
Actually, the same thing could be done with some other default textures, like the grass on Jeogeot and Satori, as a quick improvement. Especially Belli shows a good example that grassland terrain doesn't have to look old, bad and dull.
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I'm not sure about the SL Viewer itself (it should be able to do the same), in Firestorm you can enable hovertext to show the triangle count of objects, from the top menu bar Developer (Ctrl+Alt+Q if you don't have it enabled) > Render Metadata > Triangle Count. A bit below, enable Sculpt too, to see the same info on sculpts as well. This will make you able to see if it's really the polygon count of objects that makes your viewer lag, but otherwise no, you can't progressively block objects based on poly count. You can permanently derender huge, high-poly objects manually at places you go to often, and that you suspect to cause issues for you.
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2 hours ago, PermaRuthed said:
You can add every avatar created since the beginning to time to the ban list in the Land access tab but unfortunately you can't fit all 1 million names in there because the limit is only 300.
For the rest, they could put up welcome lines! Just not above 15m above ground/water, or not above 4m if on all sides, since that could be considered a privacy wall, even if it says what it says.
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59 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:
This one looks absolutely beautiful! And it would look perfect in the middle of the bare desert, too!
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So they probably wouldn't do Mars, and our canyon idea either, since they'd have to put about 2000 LI of rocks in a region, but a simple desert theme would apparently fit in with the LI-compact approach. If some cacti and dry plants would still be too much, they could go for an absolute Sahara theme:
It could have an urban sub-theme too, no problem!
Or a few homesteads:
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42 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:
-Enough common space needs to exist to support the LI of all the houses and deco content. Tall mostly false buildings with a single apartment would be hugely expensive simply due to size. How do they get to their apartment? Is there a stairwell and elevators for each home which means even more LI?
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with this point, I'm not a big fan of large buildings whose most part is just a visual placeholder, to be able to only utilize a small portion of the whole building.
The only thing I don't get in this, though, is that some objects on Belli, like the "LH-Victorian - Tree Willow - Mature Large - v1.0" is 119 LI, in the age of 10-15 LI good looking mesh trees. A staircase in a 2-3 story building shouldn't be more than 20 LI in any way. An elevator in a 10-story high-rise should probably be even less, if there's only a ground level entrance and a top or any other level end where the apartment is. So it's only the exterior of a large building that really counts in your argument, a staircase or elevator per building shouldn't be a problem when it comes to land impact.
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37 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:
It was shocking, and I had to go back and do a double take to make sure I had not entered their parcel. I have no clue how it did what it did, but the orb tossed me from outside the parcel. A Linden took care of that one almost right away.
Oh! And the orb was inside their parcel. I know because I located it. Maybe they had a second with just the root prim in the parcel?
It wouldn't really be possible, since the owner of the script that can eject or teleport home others must be the owner of the parcel where it happens. So even if Dr Evil moved to a cozy wooden house on Bellisseria to spread chaos and terror on Linden Homes, and managed to hang an orb out of his parcel, linked to a broomstick, at best he would get script error messages (or it would silently fail), and it would be ineffective on you or anyone on the protected parcel.
I can imagine that some "security devices" are also able to rez pushers to get rid of people, instead of properly ejecting them. For that, though, still if you weren't on their parcel, and it rezzed a pusher on their parcel, it couldn't make it out to the protected land, due to no object entry. There are some weird things that can happen sometimes, by shady exploits of SL bugs and gaps in how the systems work, so I place my bet on this method, unless you got the "You have been ejected from this parcel" message when it happened.
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7 minutes ago, Fay Starlight said:
When we run out of room, we can have a going to Mars "space theme" LOL!
That would actually be cool---or if it was like Moon homes, then the Earth could rise and set along with the Sun!
Just not the Moon, Corsica's inland is way enough (or even too much) of bare moonstone!
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8 hours ago, Mercedes Avon said:
I also would love to see Arizona style homes with cement exteriors and a lot of gravel yards with random bushes.
That cute house would be perfect in a desert / canyon setting!
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2 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:
@AlettaMondragon , I don't disagree with you that residents need to take responsibility and that ignorance isn't an excuse, but my AR experience gladly differs from yours.
The few ARs in Belli that I've submitted, maybe a total of 3 or 4, including one involving an orb that sent you home just for walking the street next to the property were quickly removed. Far less dramatic, such as a pier extending into Linden water, were also deal with quickly - within a day or two or three. I have found the Lindens in Belli incredibly responsive. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due.
Oh no, as I tried to refer to it myself as well (probably hard to determine that from the overall sarcastic post, LOL) I had good experiences with removing orbs on Belli. The only one that took a while was one particular place where the owner felt the need to keep 3 orbs at once, 2 set to 10 seconds, 1 to 5. She got the 5sec removed really quickly, then it was the 2 10sec orbs that remained for several weeks (those were still effective at the 400-2000m range, teleporting, and banning people for 10000 hours), but at the end, it wasn't just the orbs missing from her parcel, but it wasn't her parcel anymore. Hopefully she got one at a spot where air traffic is really rare.
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I played with the apartment idea too, which brought me to quite the same concept. Smaller buildings like in your second photo, could be made as a full representation of a real one, with large rooms on each level. A skyrise area would be interesting too, where the living area of each building could be a penthouse. Some games implemented that when they added "housing" features. Obviously, the whole exterior of the building would have to look nice though, to avoid a really weird and low quality "cityscape" when looking up to the buildings from the street, for example. It shouldn't be a problem though, it just takes some more work on making large mesh building exteriors.
What I would really like to see implemented, is a desert or semi-desert area, in the middle of a landmass, or separately, which would give the proper feeling of being in an arid environment. But of course, if I want to see deserted areas with quite appropriate terrain textures, half of mainland is suitable for that too, so probably a desert theme for LH wouldn't be too popular. A properly made desert would look really cool, though
(Just not literally, as it would be quite hot, and dry.)
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15 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:
It's often hard to find offending orbs, even when you haven't been TP'd home. And you need to click on the object in question to AR it. I've had to derender Linden Homes and look for transparent objects due to people getting sneaky and hiding their orbs in walls or under their home. One even hid it under the surface patch. I'm not convinced people doing stuff like that don't know what they are doing and are trying to skirt the rules in the covenant.
I've had the same experience a few times, from the time when I cared to try to kindly resolve it with the person that had an improperly set orb. It usually ended with my name getting on the parcel's ban list manually, very rarely with the orb really taken down or set up properly, and in a few cases just like what you said. It was weird to see some people really tried to conceal them like putting the orb's scripts into an invisible prim sphere under their house named "Object". It was a nice try, though, it made me laugh and facepalm.
Sometimes people really make mistakes, and in those cases they do their best to correct them. It's quite easy to tell what you're dealing with in a certain situation.
To find anything that's well-hidden, Area Search in Firestorm should almost always work (it produces some weird things sometimes, when it comes to results), but it only finds objects within your draw distance range, and vertically it's a bit weird, so to scan a parcel in full altitude, it takes some skydiving. Then again, if the scripts of an orb were placed into a random prim, you would have to check each object one by one, which might not even be worth the effort. Filing the AR from the location where it happened (like right next to the parcel), and directly on the suspected owner, should be good enough, then the Govs can have some fun as well to investigate the whereabouts.
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On 9/12/2020 at 12:43 PM, Camden McAndrews said:
About Railroad rez zones in Bellisseria...
Some time ago, when Squeaky Mole (who is building the railroad) set up a rez zone in Campwich Forest, they discovered that uncontrolled rezzing on the RR tracks in Bellisseria messed up its unique switching and traffic control system. So Squeaky had to remove that rez zone. This still leaves the problem that anyone with a trackside home can rez a train and have it move automatically onto the track and mess up the system. As far as I know, that instance was never resolved.
I'm not all "techie", but seriously, if the automated switch control system cannot work properly if you for example rez a locomotive on a trackside parcel (or even further) and hit a "rerail" option on it to position itself to the nearest guide it can find, that system needs more work. I always ride around the Belli RR again and again to check the new additions as it's being built, and checking the existing lines as well, and one thing for sure, I'm not a big fan of the automated switches. The half-automatic ones, like in Chippewa Junction are tolerable, but they work only as properly as much you can control them manually.
The only switches that finally work properly are the fully manual ones. I'm not against the automatic switches at all, it's a good idea, but in their current state, especially where it isn't just a siding, but a complex junction, they're quite pointless.
The one fishy thing about the concept of "uncontrolled rezzing messed up the system" is, however, that even if you set a rezzer to rez a loco on your land again and again, it cannot position itself to the tracks, since object entry is turned off. You have to sit on it first to be able to drag, or reposition it by script to the protected parcel, and thus it is already a quite controlled act, as it needs someone's presence and actions.
Unless the automatic control system will send us authorization cards with our current trackage rights once we rez a rail vehicle in a RR rez zone, this "uncontrolled rezzing" excuse is just odd and barely plausible.
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51 minutes ago, Gracious Noel said:
my whole viewer is messed up i can only use one grid only not several.
I doubt it would be "messed up" by choosing another mode at the start, which you're talking about. Since you're talking about several grids, look at the link Arielle posted above, it will take you to Firestorm's OpenSim version. On the SL version, you'll only be able to log in to the SL Main (Agni) grid, and the Test/Beta (Aditi) grid (if you have your account copied there), and you can turn on the grid selection box by pressing Ctrl+Shift+G, or going to Preferences > Advanced > Check in "Allow login to other grids"
You can also join the Firestorm Support group inworld on the SL Main grid, to ask for help setting up your viewer, if you have issues particularly with the SL version. However, downloading the OpenSim version from the Firestorm site, and installing it should make you able to log in to your grids without any problem.
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1 minute ago, Garnet Psaltery said:
It took months to get a particular piece of filth out of a G region, with multiple people ARing, so I do appreciate the frustration one can feel.
In my experience, the serious ones usually get resolved in a reasonable time, so I actually don't really have a problem with how it works. It could be better, it could be worse. I like to try to make things better, so I'm focusing on that. The examples I brought are not so old, and it definitely takes a long time to get certain things resolved. Subjective impression or not, I really don't care who removes a camouflaged solid prim that's laying right under the water level at a region crossing on a protected waterway, if it's gone, it's resolved. When the prim gets replaced with a new one, though, still subjective impression, but the strong impression - suspicion - that the person replaced it after it was returned by a Linden. After like 20 such cases during one year, I'm pretty sure I can decide what I'm seeing at a certain place.
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Just now, Garnet Psaltery said:
I took you to mean you had some ARs not yet submitted. Of course, if I'm mistaken you can easily clear that up.
Yes, it looks like you greatly misread that:
5 hours ago, AlettaMondragon said:(I could show interesting examples, like how a sex club can show in search as General rated content for months despite being reported several times, or how a waterway can be blocked entirely for several months while being reported, but I'm not keen on making those public. Yet.)
As I said, those were reported. And as I said, what I don't want to do is making the issues public. That's why I don't do it. And there's a "Yet", because the fact that I don't want to do it, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to do it in the future. Hope this helps.
As for the discussion, no, opposing my standpoint would be fine, because I can defend it. Attacking or accusing me with nonsense questions or suggesting what I should do or should have done is not a discussion. I'm bringing facts, my experiences and my opinion on these things. If you have a problem with that, or have a different opinion, sure, go ahead and ask and say things that are relevant, instead of making assumptions, and we can talk. Otherwise, as I said, rather have a nice day.
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Land Owner Forced Teleport Home
in General Discussion
Posted
There really isn't too much use of the way banlines work on Mainland, but it gives many people the (false) feeling of privacy and security. So much that they don't even care about any other land settings, so you can rez and keep objects on their lands even if you're not on the actual parcel. People can squat on such parcels easily, they just cannot log back into or teleport to the parcel. BUT if you aren't on the parcel at the time someone would enter (let's assume aircraft or random noobs first instead of malicious attempts like squatting and griefing), would you need banlines going up to 4096 or more meters? The whole concept is a huge failure, since banlines up to 50m are just as unnecessary when the landowner or those that they personally allow (group or whitelist) are not on the parcel.
Banlines could easily work up to any height solely in the allowed people's presence, activating automatically once they enter the parcel, and deactivating once they leave, on parcels set to restricted access, so undesired interactions with avatars would be prevented (well, actually it's still a ridiculous concept) when it makes sense, so when there's someone to protect.
Since you don't have to prevent interactions with strangers when you're not even on your land, that's when banlines are useless, whether they reach up to 50m or any height. That's when malicious attempts like rezzing griefer objects, or people trying to squat on your comfy, big, mostly empty parcel come into play. And the land settings are perfectly able to prevent any of those, except a really few cases (like a replicator attack).
Those that really think they need security orbs and banlines to work on their land when they're not personally present, are simply paranoid, can't use the available tools properly, and certainly try to compensate for some deficiencies, which results in the "I pay for my land, I can do whatever I want, and I'll use automated settings and devices to kick people from my land, trap their loud helicopters on the middle of my land, and collect as many as I can before my land gets filled up, even if I haven't logged in to SL since 2013, but my bank account gets drained to keep up my tier, or I actually log in to this day, but never spend a moment on this parcel" mentality. Thank goodness this is actually not the majority of people, only those with real problems.
In my opinion, it's really not the actual tools that mean any kind of problem, but the way some people use them. Anything can be misused, and many ignorant people manage to do so. What's even better, they're totally fine with it.
In your example with movelock vs eject, if you get banned by name, you won't be able to stay on the parcel. If you happen to, by some weird glitch, and the owner of the parcel wouldn't have the TP home option, you'd have to log out eventually, and wouldn't be able to log back onto the parcel, and after a sim restart which would log you out, same story. Or you'd simply get bored and TP out yourself. However, the ability to manually TP home an unwanted person is convenient (for both the landowner and the unwanted person) and the most effective and reliable way to get rid of them, so it would be a shot in one's own leg to remove it.
Actually, without a direct TP home function, they could still enable damage and kill you shamelessly, maybe after throwing you around with pushers for a few seconds/minutes for fun, but this was already mentioned in this topic, so a sidenote is enough for it. So there aren't just your two options to get rid of someone.