LaskyaClaren

Celestiall Nightfire wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Stuff that gets people riled up.... Well, it's good to see you haven't loss your knack! A talent it is... ; ) Well, one tries to keep in practice. Although I might perhaps note that Sy was really the only person in this thread to take it to that level. In a thread with 175 posts, that seems to suggest . . . that I'm not trying hard enough? ;-)

Derek Torvalar wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Derek Torvalar wrote: Awww my lovely painting got removed. And they called it 'porn'! Philistines! What did you expect? The Impressionists are SCANDALOUS! Then there is no hope. And leave Rob 'Falstaff' Ford alone! He is a man of the people! I'll just insert this after the end: "This advertisement was paid for by the Committee to Elect Anyone But Rob Ford."

Derek Torvalar wrote: Awww my lovely painting got removed. And they called it 'porn'! Philistines! What did you expect? The Impressionists are SCANDALOUS!

Dillon Levenque wrote: Wow. I hardly know where to begin. Oh, no, that's wrong. I do know: it's the phrase that made me want to click 'Reply'. "OK, have you paused to consider that your idealised, niche, clique, liberal version of SL might possibly be the least appealing version of SL to the masses". The masses? Really? I've been around for a fairly long time and every single person I've ever read/heard who used the phrase 'the masses' was a total and complete elitist. The rest of your post just confirms my impression. In fact, you even managed to squeeze in another of my favorite tells: 'hoi polloi'. Who the F are you to be classifiying people? One of my parents went to (and graduated from) college, as did one of my two siblings. I gave it a shot, but my life's circumstances got in the way. I'm an American high school graduate. That's gotta be full-on hoi polloi, right? Never mind that I've probably forgotten more about classical history than 999 out of 1000 people ever learned. (don't quiz me, people: I said I'd forgotten! Although if you want a pretty funny story ask me about Xenophon). Never mind that I am a pretty decent geologist, at least as interpreting the landforms is concerned (when it gets to chemistry I am out to lunch). The 'hoi polloi' are all people like me. Some of us are interested in learning, some of us just do the best we can to get by. Most of the time, we are easy to deal with. The only thing that really pisses us off is someone who has that 'elitist' smell. You stink of it. This. The rhetoric you've identified, Dillon, is a language that has of late become particularly associated with elements of the right. It is the rhetoric of division, of divide and conquer. It is also -- and this should give anyone pause for thought -- the rhetoric of my own multi-millionaire mayor, Rob Ford, sneering at the so-called "Downtown Elites" as he dons his borrowed blue collar, and hops into his humungous SUV. Edited for tone and clarity.

Sy Beck wrote: So you want a serious response? OK, have you paused to consider that your idealised, niche, clique, liberal version of SL might possibly be the least appealing version of SL to the masses and also appealing to only but the smallest of all demographics? That any money spent attracting the likes of you maybe the worst ROI for an advertising buck? This is not a case of LL doing anything wrong in their advertising, but more about that you feel it should be advertising to your middle class metro sensibilities yes? It's almost reads like a resentment that your sacred artistic bubble has to be shared with undesirables and the hoi polloi with their grubby little values, which you magnaminously accept must be tolerated. A bit like your favourite bookshop stocking Harold Robbins and Jackie Collins novels, your art house theatre doing a season of Schwarzenegger films or maybe even your favourite coffee house putting Coca-Cola on the shelves. In short all those things that keep companies and organisations profitable and afloat giving you the space and freedom to tell them how it should be done properly. I mean you are only a miniscule percentage of the userbase, but you are a special kind of snowflake and they should be paying attention to you shouldn't they? In short LL has never spent much on advertising, which we have all decried. Therefore, what little they have to spend they must target at the largest common denominator with the most tried and trusted triggers. So yeah, it's going to be sex, love and relationships and the portrayal of beautiful, desirable bodies in risqué clothing because that sells and when it does it brings the bucks in. This is why this forum is spammed with numbers for escort services rather than numbers to call to listen into the latest stinging critiques of feminist literature post the Sex in the City era or a treatise on the dirge that is Paradise Lost. So if you feel that you disapprove of LL's marketing strategy then either, a) reach for the remote and switch off, b) ask them nicely to keep increasing their advertising budget with resources from elsewhere till there's enough in the pot to target you and your ilk or best of all c) start a collection fund that you and like-minded people can contribute to with which you can then buy advertising space to advertise SL in a manner which you feel more fitting and won't attract the wrong sort of people into the neighbourhood. Yours sincerely, Jerk. ;-p Ouch. Kind of an unnecessarily ad hominem response, Sy, but ok. I appreciate your honesty, and the time that you took to respond to this. Let me ask you . . . who is really being "classist" here? So far as I can recall, I've expressed no assumptions about class, education, or ideology in my responses, yet you (and aparently Heart Brimmer) seem to think that they are central to what I've said: that I am speaking for a middle-class cultural "elite" who naturally look down upon the "hoi polloi" and denigrate their beer-swilling, porn-surfing ways. Allow me to disabuse you. I don't articulate such assumptions because I think they are nonsense. I don't for a minute believe that sexuality, porn, and interest in relationships, or even beer-swilling are a necessary adjunct of class. I have no problem believing -- know, in fact, because I know of plenty of instances -- that middle class, art-loving people who read Paradise Lost also view porn, fapp on a pretty regular basis, and even drink beer. I have no problem with that: I'm not myself much interested in porn, but I have plenty of (feminist, even!) friends who are. As for the relationships and the rest, well, I've been there myself, and don't think the less of myself because of it. So, really, you've just reduced me, and an entire group of people to a neat little stereotype. But what is really classist about your response is your unsupported assumption that the "lower class," the "hoi polloi," the "unlettered masses," etc., are uninterested in the other things, such as art, literature, creativity, etc., that you so decry. In fact, I call BS. What right have you to belittle and denigrate those who are not "middle class" by suggesting that they are incapable of appreciating these things, and are only interested in sex? And where's your proof? I have spent most of my adult life in "the ivory tower." Mine is a public university, but no doubt you think that my academic associations are a sign of my elitism and my isolation. And yet the students I have studied alongside, got to know, and even taught come from all walks of life, and represent an enormously varied range of perspectives and interests; they are by no means all "middle class." What unites them is not the part of town from which they hail, or how much their parents earn, but an interest in learning, and in experiencing new things, including art, literature, ideas, and new perspectives. And you know, those who do not come from the middle class -- a sizable proportion -- would be pretty insulted by the way in which you've reduced them to lower class cliches. I'm also pretty sure most of them are interested in sex and maybe even porn. What is important is that that is not all that they are interested in. My complaint about the marketing for Second Life is not that they are marketing sex. It's that that is ALL that they are currently marketing. And if you read my comments in this thread with a bit of care, you'll see that I'm not calling for a new marketing campaign based solely upon art in SL, but upon one that captures something of the diversity of experiences available here, of which art, and sex, are only a part. Linden Lab might well be making huge profits by focusing solely upon sex. I wouldn't deny for a moment that they are within their rights to pursue such profits if they wish. And if Second Life becomes nothing more than IMVU with better graphics, and loses all of the other things that make it interesting and worthwhile, then, yes, I and many others will lose interest in it. Possibly we (representing a wide range of classes, ideologies, and perspectives) won't be missed by those (of ALL classes) who are here for the sex. But that decision will be made, not by the "hoi polloi" you so denigrate with your implicit assumptions about their narrow interests, but by the very wealthy, and probably art-loving, well-educated investors who will have demonstrated, in the words of Oscar Wilde (ack! an elitist allusion!) that they know the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

Sy Beck wrote: Haven't read a single post in this thread . . . Fine. See if I ever read any of your threads. Jerk. :-P

You need have no fears on that score. Facebook is interested in virtual reality, not virtual worlds. The two are not synonymous. What's more, Second Life is, in relative terms, ancient technology. If FB wanted a virtual world (which they don't) they have the resources to build a much more up-to-date one than this.

*pointedly ignores Griffin's post* :-o Strangely enough, the feedback on Oculus Rift's Kickstarter page is kinda . . . unhappy. The sentiment (although technically not correct, of course) seems to be that these people in essence Kickstarted Facebook . . . https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game/comments They don't seem a lot more friendly on Reddit either, where Palmer Luckey's attempts at damage control are being met with rotten vegetables. And I thought the SL forums could be nasty. http://www.reddit.com/user/palmerluckey I'm not sure I'd turn down $2 billion dollars for a project were I offered it. At the same time, this whole thing is making me sort of sad and cynical about crowdfunding, which seemed like such a cool, democratic idea. If the end result of helping to fund a new project is simply to bring it to the stage where it can be sold out to the highest bidder, and put it in the hands of a multi-billion dollar corporation . . . well, that's not cool. At all. One crowdfunds because one is excited by a project, not because one wants to make the developers rich.

Dresden Ceriano wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: ...being big helps, until you're too big. How true. ...Dres *speaks from experience* *facepalms* (Again)

Dresden Ceriano wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Rumor has it that wasn't mayonaise on the sandwich. EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!! I don't know what you ate, but it sure wasn't my sandwich!!! I hate Miracle Whip too. Oh, are you one of Laskya's part-time subs as well? Her whip is indeed miraculous. ...Dres *facepalms*

Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10101319050523971?stream_ref=10 I believe I recently opined that Oculus Rift wouldn't go anywhere. Oops! Maybe the real question is . . . is Facebook going anywhere? I'm still sceptical about OR. I wonder about Facebook as well. My experience with VR headsets left me appreciating the windshield of my car, even in the rain with bad wipers. That said, being big helps. It does. But it certainly seems a very odd fit. I think, actually, that the impact of this may be bigger on High Fidelity than it is on Second Life. It is curious that Zuckerberg mentions Oculus as being something akin to the wave after mobile. Now I'm thinking of the wave at stadiums, where we all get up and move for a second before sitting back down. And remember that Yahoo recently absorbed the Cloud Party team. Maybe something is afoot? Yay! A Silicon Valley Conspiracy theory!!! This'll keep this place buzzing for DAYS!

Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10101319050523971?stream_ref=10 I believe I recently opined that Oculus Rift wouldn't go anywhere. Oops! Maybe the real question is . . . is Facebook going anywhere? I'm still sceptical about OR. I wonder about Facebook as well. My experience with VR headsets left me appreciating the windshield of my car, even in the rain with bad wipers. That said, being big helps. It does. But it certainly seems a very odd fit. I think, actually, that the impact of this may be bigger on High Fidelity than it is on Second Life.

Meanwhile, in another part of the forest . . . "Technology Opinion – Sony’s Virtual Reality headset will hurt company"

Madelaine McMasters wrote: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10101319050523971?stream_ref=10 I believe I recently opined that Oculus Rift wouldn't go anywhere. Oops! Maybe the real question is . . . is Facebook going anywhere? I'm still sceptical about OR.

Perrie Juran wrote: Rumor has it that wasn't mayonaise on the sandwich. EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!! I don't know what you ate, but it sure wasn't my sandwich!!!

Dresden Ceriano wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: BTW, in case you were wondering, Dresden ^^^^^ is my alt and part-time sub whom I've carefully trained to SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS ME IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WORDS. He's pretty good at it, no? ;-) *fume fume* >:-( I can guarantee you that I started writing my post before you did. I apologize for not being able to type as quickly as you, Master (see what I did there?). ...Dres (BTW, you can wear me if you so desire, but be warned that I was already worn out a long time ago.) MISTRESS!!!!! Jeez. Yes, I saw what you did there. >:-( And don't worry, I wouldn't really wear you. You're waaaaay too buff, and I couldn't handle the inevitable comparisons. ;-)

Madelaine McMasters wrote: Let me add that the distinction between "Add"ing clothing items and "Wear"ing them is important. "Wear" will remove anything already occupying the spot or layer that the new item targets. "Add" will leave all existing things in place. If you are adding a clothing layer thing (with icons that look like clothing) they will layer atop anything else already on that layer. I'll get this wrong, but I think the ordering of layers is roughly skin(top/bottom/head), tattoo(top/bottom/head), undershirt/pants, shirt/pants and finally jacket. So, if you want to replace one skin/garment/item with another, chose wear. Otherwise, chose "add". If you haven't already read it, I recommend the User's Guide. And finally, the similarity in responses you'll get from residents here is the natural and unavoidable consequence of there being only 13 people on the internet. We can't be expected to make each and every "person" you meet here appear unique, particularly when three of us have called in sick today, and the rest of us are working overtime. Sort of like, if I "wear" Dresden, then Laskya gets removed and put into my inventory. But if I "Add" Dresden, then . . . *shudder* Ok, let's not go there. (BTW Maddy, someone took my lunch from the lunchroom fridge. Was it you or Snugs? or both?)

BTW, in case you were wondering, Dresden ^^^^^ is my alt and part-time sub whom I've carefully trained to SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS ME IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WORDS. He's pretty good at it, no? ;-) *fume fume* >:-(

Hi Alaeena! And welcome to Second Life (and the forums)! With regard to your first question about the particular viewer (the programmes that we use to access Second Life are called "viewers"): either the official SL viewer or Firestorm are fine. Firestorm includes a few more options for advanced users than the official viewer does, and some people find that it works better on their computer, but it is a bit behind in development (which is to say, it doesn't get updates as quickly as the official one). But really, it's mostly a matter of personal preference. There are other third-party viewers (TPVs) as well: one that a great many people also use is Singularity. Try them, and see which works best on your computer, and which interface you prefer! About the animations: you don't need a premium account to make these work. If you can tell us what form they came in, we can probably be more help. Are they animation files in your inventory? Do they use a Heads-Up Display (HUD) that you need to attach? Are they using pose balls that you place on the ground, and then "sit" on? In any case, they should work, if you use them correctly. The biggest problem with shoes, aside from foot size, is making sure that you use the alpha layer that comes packaged with most shoes these days. This should be in the same folder as the rest of the shoes, and has an icon usually that looks a bit like a shirt -- right click on it, and choose "Add," and the parts of your friend's feet sticking out should probably disappear. Some older shoes use something called "invisiprims" that used to hide parts of the foot, but these aren't supported generally in most viewers, under most settings, nowadays. Hope that helps!

Pussycat Catnap wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Ethnically those images annoy me for their overly-specific-ethnic look. But they ARE the sort of images one sees on the box cover of "The Sims". So I can see why LLs goes for that style. Frankly... This is a kind of IMVU. Its IMVU with furries and Goreans. Who else do we realisticly expect them to market it to, and have a shot at attracting? I get why you'd say that SL is a kind of IMVU. It is . . . some of the time, for some people. But even those who treat SL as an online dating service and/or cybersex platform are doing so in environments that have not been modeled by a corporate mentality, but have been produced by other users. It's a much more "organic" experience in many ways than the pre-chewed pablum available elsewhere. IMVU is largely user made as well I gather. I've been hit on this point before - saying IMVU's toons are not user made, had someone who built for platform give me a tad of a nasty correction. Apparantly you can upload mesh models there. I don't know how far that extends into the stages people staticly sit in for IMVU... but if you wander SL, and this has been covered a LOT on Hamlet Au's blog: most SL users don't go anywhere other than the place they're currently rezzed at. People find a spot, and then camp it. The percentage that never moves is freakily high... I believe Hamlet stated something like 80 or 90% of SLers... I knew neither of these things -- about IMVU and user-generated content, nor about the immobility of most SL users (which does surprise me, although maybe not as much as it should). I do still tend to think that there are deeper differences between the two platforms than the apparent similarities (and LL's newest marketing campaign) would seem to suggest.

Merrytricks wrote: If teens are who LL want to attract (and that in itself is a questionable choice) they should be told that real teens don't want to be created-at. They want to create. They've been producing videos for longer than they could hold a pencil. They speak multiple programming languages. They built everything that could be built on minecraft. Show them just a hint of the possibilities they'll encounter as content creators in SL. In short, if you let them build it, they will come. I'm not sure about your characterization of teens (or "real" teens") here. It is certainly true that there are a great many who are creative, who are churning out vodcasts, and who are "building" on Minecraft and elsewhere. But I seriously doubt that this represents the norm. I don't think that most teens know "multiple programming languages" -- in fact, very few of the teens with whom I am acquainted know even one. Most of them have trouble with FB privacy settings, and they tend to be attracted to "stripped down" platforms that make most of their creative choices for them. So, they like FB (but are moving away from it, perhaps), prefer Tumblr over, say, Wordpress, and like Twitter and Snapchat precisely because they are easy to use and text-based (with pics). Some of them are creating on Minecraft, but there building is part of a game (outside of creative mode) rather than something to be done for its own sake, and an awful lot of them are using it as a platform for PVP and minigames. "Creativity," for most of them, means sharing a lolcat or posting pics on Pinterest. In fact, so far as digital literacy goes, I fear most teens, "digital natives" or not, are a bit of a bust. i think it would be great, as i've said, to cater to teens who are creative with a revamped Teen Grid. And, as I've also said, there will be some who remember Club Penguin and Poptropica fondly, and are ready for a move up. But everything we seem to know about trends in teen platform usage suggests that they are moving away from really involving platforms and towards ones that are simple to use and closely integrated with their RL. They are more into AR than VR, I think. But maybe I'm wrong.

Pussycat Catnap wrote: Ethnically those images annoy me for their overly-specific-ethnic look. But they ARE the sort of images one sees on the box cover of "The Sims". So I can see why LLs goes for that style. Frankly... This is a kind of IMVU. Its IMVU with furries and Goreans. Who else do we realisticly expect them to market it to, and have a shot at attracting? Yes, "diversity" of any sort is entirely erased. And they are more than a teeny bit sexist, as well. I get why you'd say that SL is a kind of IMVU. It is . . . some of the time, for some people. But even those who treat SL as an online dating service and/or cybersex platform are doing so in environments that have not been modeled by a corporate mentality, but have been produced by other users. It's a much more "organic" experience in many ways than the pre-chewed pablum available elsewhere.

BLADEZRAVEN wrote: hmmm everything you said makes alot of sence so i cant really counter your argument, all i can say is if SL isnt profitable then down the road 5 or 10 years from now it ( MIGHT ) not exist, so i don't know, i do not want it to change either i like it just the way it is now, but years from now if i have to choose '' nothing '' or a '' much different SL'' ? well i guess anything is better than nothing ... In theory, Second Life is sufficiently diverse and "customizable" (see Dresden's comment above, about the "Freedom" that SL affords) to permit all sorts of experience, including whatever might work for teens. The problem wouldn't be so much that LL is targeting teens (if, in fact, they are), but rather that with their current approach to marketing, they are only targeting one particular audience. If SL is to remain diverse and customizable, then they need to attract a diverse audience. I'm still not sure how likely it is that teens will be looking to SL, although you'd think given their experience in children's platforms like Club Penguin that they'd feel comfortable here. To repeat something I say above (I think), what we need for teens is a revived "Teen Grid" that features things specifically geared to teens, and is not merely a rather empty "G" rated version of the main grid.

Madelaine McMasters wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: Maelthras wrote: But the private logs are LL content and created by the viewer and so should falling under the application tos, so you are saying as long as they don't pass them in LL they can do whatever they want with my logs? Exactly. LL say this, in terms, at Linden Lab Official:Residents' privacy rights: Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service. NOTE: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. ; while that might be illegal, but those laws must be enforced by the proper law enforcement agencies. Yep, it's perfectly legit... ;-) This has clearly been faked. Dillon would have said "HUGE," not "BIG."

Jo Yardley wrote: Oh and btw, we also discussed this subject in the Drax files radio show; http://draxfiles.com/2014/03/21/show-11-the-road-to-vr/ Thanks for this, Jo. It was indeed listening to that podcast that sponsored my tweet to you. :-) This is a great and important conversation to be having, in all of the various venues in which is it occurring -- let's hope that someone is listening!