LaskyaClaren

Greetings Forum Hivemind! I'm in the market for a new AO, or at least for new animations for my existing one (which is a mix of purchased and free animations). I'd like animations that are, obviously, high quality, but that also depict natural and non-cutesy-poo or "sexy" motion. In other words, animations that show a woman in normal, everyday interactions with others. I don't want to be thrusting my hips to one side, or arching my back, or looking coyly over my shoulder. (That's not to be judgemental, by the way: such animations have their place. It's just not how I want to be perceived.) I've found, of course, individual animations here and there that accomplish this, but I'm wondering if there isn't a single AO that achieves it. The closest I've found thus far are two at Vista: the new Cosmpolitan AO, and their Elegant Lady one (even if the title does leave me gagging a little). Does anyone have any particular suggestions for an AO that I might buy entire, or at least harvest for a number of good animations? I'm quite willing, if need be, to cobble together animations from diverse sources, but I've found that the "flow" is smoother if they have been designed as a package. And of course, I'm supremely lazy, and would prefer not to have to spend hours and days searching for individual ones I like. ;-) Thanks! Edited to add: Sorry. I've just realized that this should probably go in the "Your Avatar" section, but there you are. Oops.

I love the skin, and the hair! I've heard of LAQ, but never looked for myself. I should. Preferences for hair are interesting. I decided that I didn't like mesh hair, precisely because it doesn't move; someone here in another thread I read referred to it as a lump of plastiscene sitting on your head, which about captures my own feelings. So, I consciously went for flexi, which is becoming harder to find. But I like shorter hair, so billowing clouds of it on the dance floor aren't so much of an issue with me. :-)

Wow indeed. Very nicely done, Garyll. And the best evidence I've seen that it can be done for very cheap!

Garyll, your link is broken, which is too bad: I'd have loved to see what you made with this! I might just add, in a more practical vein, that Coco has put all non-mesh items out for free. It's all (I think) very high-quality stuff, particularly (as I've mentioned in another thread) the footwear. http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/COCO%20DESIGNS/107/209/22

You are absolutely right, of course, iCade, but I have the sense that the poster views pretty much everything, including RL, as a game. Although I appreciate the value of play, it's not a view for which I have much sympathy: I'm not particularly interested in winning. But that's just me. I am entirely clueless about setting up a business in SL, so I am confessedly unqualified to comment on this thread in any substantive way, except to say that I smell hubris, big time. And I'm reminded of Proverbs, too: "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." But I'm sure people who worry about such things seldom win. :-)

There is some really wonderful advice on this thread, and some terrifically useful links that I wish I'd had. I entirely understand the desire for a fast, cheap, and easy solution. It is entirely possible be interested in SL in ways that have nothing to do with how your avatar looks, one might be an art lover, for instance, less interested in socializing than in visiting installations. I have friends in here -- mostly educators, who it must be said, tend not to care much about appearance in RL either -- who have been in-world for ever, and still look vaguely like noobs. They just don't care. Unfortunately, if one goes about much in SL, one soons finds that appearances do matter, quite a bit, and looking like a noob can impact on how one is treated. So even if one doesn't particularly care about one's own appearance, it is generally a good idea to at least show that some effort has been made to fit in. When I started, I took the freebie route, using resources like FabFree (which is indeed a fab resource). The results were entirely acceptable: there is some very nice clothing available through group gifts, for instance. But it's also a great deal of work. Fortunately, I enjoy bargain shopping, but not everyone does, so I can understand the appeal of the "let me buy a complete avatar and get it over with" thing.

What an absolutely gorgeous avatar, Coby. :-) I am green with envy. Or used to be, but I have a better skin now. ;-)

It occurs to me you asked for "old" pics. Here's an all-freebie one of me: mesh sweater, system jeans (not shown!), freebie hair and skin. I should have mentioned that I got some terrific help at Caledon Oxbridge from a very sweet mentor by the name of Lemuria. Most of the clothes she gave me were frankly unwearable, but I think the hair is from her.

An interesting experiment, Caroline. I've been trying something rather similar, in large measure to determine how well and quickly students coming into SL could de-noobify themselves. My own experience suggests that it's not difficult to find nice freebie clothes via group gifts, but that this can actually require a fair amount of work and time. I'm fairly choosy about what I wear (I now have folders full of garbage my avatar wouldn't be caught de-rezzed in), so it took about a month of freebie hunting to put together a reasonably sufficient collection of decent outfits. Mostly it's mesh, but there are a few nice outfits comprised primarily of old-style system and prim clothing. The real challenge, in terms of clothing, has been finding nice shoes. Not boots: I have some very nice pairs of those (thank you Coco!!!), but nice versions of basic pumps, wedges, and Mary Janes have been (surprisingly) harder to find. Perhaps, however, I haven't spent enough time looking for those, it being boot season and all. On the other hand, there are three items that I think are absolutely vital to one's look for which I ultimately decided I couldn't rely upon freebies: skins, hair, and animations. Possibly, again, I am being picky, or maybe the importance I accord these three items just reflects my own personal predilections, but I finally broke down and bought all of these. I also spent countless hours tweaking my shape, but that's another story. Your new avatar looks, I think, really lovely. :-)

Dresden Ceriano wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Edited to add: the quote function in this place sort of sucks. Or maybe I'm doing it wrong? You probably just need to get used to it and its little idiosyncrasies. Regardless, you seem to have done pretty well... some people can't figure it out for the life of them. ...Dres I actually got started many years ago on older, clunkier BBSs, so the basic principles are familiar. But the wonky and inconsistent formatting here has me grinding my teeth, as I am a bit pathologically neat in some areas. (You should see my inventory. It even frightens me sometimes.) Edited to add: Case in point. I just edited this note in order to delete a loose period that was developing pretensions to free will, and needed to be brought to heel.

Madelaine McMasters wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: In fact, some of the most intensely sexy experiences I've ever had in RL happened when I was fully clothed. *loses herself in a momentary reverie* :-) From what I remember of those "fog of love" days before I actually married the guy, all of my intensely sexy experiences happened when I was fully clothed. There's something about a woman with a tire iron in her hand, changing a wheel in a skirt and high heels that he found irresistable. Or he was immensely practical, and knew the value of marrying someone who could fix a car. ... wanders over to the "gender confusion" thread. There's probably money to be made in a "sexy women at work" RPG sim. Perhaps we can be partners? I don't do cars, but I'm enormously handy with light bulbs.

Celestiall Nightfire wrote: With this account on day two..I got greifed in a sandbox. (I was there rezzing prims) Caged and dropped out at 2500 meters. (Twice!) With my alt account in 2010..again in a sandbox...someone dropped an anvil on my head. So, maybe it's "where" you are? Or, perhaps you're just a hot little number. ; ) Every bit as hot as LL's default "Goth Girl" avatar could make me! But maybe I just bumped into walls in a particularly alluring fashion. ;-) It must certainly depend, to some degree, on where you are. But of course one of the problems is that one doesn't really have a very good idea where to go at first. I was interested in music, so someone directed me to a club. The rest, as they say, is history . . . (thank god). It took me WEEKS to get griefed. Some girls have all the luck! Celestiall Nightfire wrote: Well, there you go. I didn't go to clubs. Or dancing places. *laughing* But many people do go to clubs, to experience music. Content ratings apply there too. Yes, there are some clubs that are a sort of animated, soundtracked version of some of the more interesting parts of Craig's List, but it generally takes going there to find out. Or a bit of experience. I largely do blues club and alt clubs: the dress code at the former, interestingly enough, is probably much laxer than the latter (it's harder to be achingly hip in a 90s sort of way without clothing). However, neither genres really feature a lot of picking up in my experience. But I've certainly visited places that were. Celestiall Nightfire wrote: Hmm, any stats on average skirt length for SL VS RL? All avatars...really? Hmm..we're seeing a different SL. Funny how that happens. Well, yes. Of course we're seeing a different SL. Everyone does, and generalizations are best preceded (as were mine) by qualifying phrases such as "on average," and "virtually." We'll have to ask Frau Yardley if she's keeping stats on skirt length. ;-) Celestiall Nightfire wrote: *laughing* I asked questions. None of which are "unfair". Since asking questions is an ok thing to do (the OP started out that way) I like to ask how many people found sex stuff and adult material on DAY ONE in SL? It's not the first thing you find or stumble across. Leaving the beginner area after account creation...the option to select the type of place you want to go is there. You could choose adult, but also educational, art, RP, and more. So, how does a newbie just happen to end up within hours of joining SL..seeing a lot of sexualized content? (Oh, and finding their way here to the forum to post about it?) Ok, that's fair: I shouldn't have tried to call you out on that. Please accept my apology. But again, so much depends on one's individual experience -- and, early on, that tends to be random in SL, if only because one doesn't yet know the ropes, or is exploring rather aimlessly. And, also again, one doesn't need to be ringside at full-on bout of animated pixelporn to "witness" hypersexuality, in SL or RL. In fact, some of the most intensely sexy experiences I've ever had in RL happened when I was fully clothed. *loses herself in a momentary reverie* :-) Edited to add: the quote function in this place sort of sucks. Or maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Syo Emerald wrote: M rated clubs in Second Life are not that much more sexualized than any real life music video today. And since SL and music videos are both showing idealized worlds it doesn't suprise me. I think that this is a really excellent point! Arguably, SL can be a bit like a music video (or art installation, or historical documentary, or whatever) that one can walk into. But I especially like your point that both SL and music videos are particular articulations of popular culture.

Madelaine McMasters wrote: Imagine walking through real life and seeing what everyone else is thinking. Very true. And sometimes that's uncomfortable, of course. But one gets used to it. Mostly. :-)

Celestiall Nightfire wrote: I disagree. My experience of being in SL for years, yet rarely saw anything like what you're referring to. I also have an account from 2010, and she didn't run into any adult fare, or scantily clad people either. (Until purposely seeking it). So, how is it that a newbie today happens to see all that (sexualized) on day one? It means they sought out places that where they'd see it. How is it that a female newbie can get propositioned on Day One, without getting much past the welcome areas? It happened to me, and I certainly wasn't advertising. One's first experience is SL, before one knows what one is doing, can be pretty random. Everyone's experiences, and everyone's standards, are going to be somewhat different, I suppose. Certainly I fairly regularly see very scanty outfits at some of the M rated blues clubs I have gone to. The first time I ever saw a couple dancing to Bits and Bobs Dance 3, or whatever it's called, I was pretty sure they were making out. Needless to say, I'm more acclimatized now. Skirts here are, on average, shorter, cleavage is more on display and, of course, virtually all avatars are more shapely, with more pronounced sexual characteristics (wide hips, large breasts, broad shoulders, long legs, and so on). You're right, of course, that to see actual sex you have to be looking for it, but human sexuality, as I'm sure you'll agree, need not imply even partial nudity. What I do think is perhaps a little unfair is your not-so-subtle suggestion that Kezar was pruriently hunting down obscenity to complain about. Far from being judgemental, Kezar seems to be cool with it. Why accuse him of motives for which there is no real evidence?

I think I understand where Kezar is coming from. To someone who is new to SL, a great deal of what those who have been around for a while take for granted can seem very sexualized. After all, their most important terms of reference are RL standards, which are clearly quite a bit different. Walk into any M-rated club in SL on an average evening, and you'll see male and female avatars very scantily dressed by RL standards, and often engaged in dances that look more like heavy petting that tripping the light fantastic. I don't think it's difficult to understand why that might surprise or even shock some newbies. Kezar seems to be pretty accepting of this. And over time, that female in the corner wearing a thong or teeny tiny skirt while she grinds with her topless boyfriend probably won't seem quite so odd.

Yes, cite it as Laskya Claren, I suppose. I'm not writing as an academic, really, so that's more appropriate. Your experience is somewhat like mine; I was first here, well, a long time ago. Then I came back, and had to relearn a great deal. And still am, really. (And I hated losing Phoenix!) Edited to add: I do hope that you'll be able to make the results of your research available, in some form? I know I'd love to see what you have to say, and I'm sure others will too. :-)

Mummy, there are a great many educators in SL, some of them doing, I think, really interesting things. But you actually won't find very many of them here. There is a mailing list which you should be able to join, however, here: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators You can connect with many SL teachers there and, I'm sure, ask questions. Good luck!

Well, coincidentally, there is a post in another thread on the subject of how mesh clothing is impacting on avatar body shapes. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Returning-a-world-once-well-known-now-an-alien-planet/m-p/2450829#M150915 It seems odd that we are now apparently letting commercially available clothing dictate how we represent ourselves. Maybe fitted mesh will change that, but at the moment, maybe we are moving to a world where all avatars come in 6 sizes: XXS, XS, S, M, L and XL? Your world, your clothing! By the way, I just realized that you have a legacy name, and have been around since 2010! You're already an old hand at this kind of thing! Edited because duh.

BellaClair Mynx wrote: I appreciate everyone's time and I don't want to cause any extra work for anyone, but I do invite those who have more to say to do so. I am wondering if you and others who wanted to comment, might email me your comments whether on particular question(s) or just broad comments and I will endeavour to incorporate them in the final write-up. I can send a blank list of questions so no one need go back in to the survey. This would allow those who do wish to remain anonymous to do so. It's certainly still possible to continue to guarantee anonymity for interviews, in the sense that you suppress names in your final research paper. I think much of what I might add by way of comment is probably in the blog piece anyway. In particular, I'd just want to emphasize that there is not necessarily a direct and uncomplicated correlation between how people choose to look in SL, and their self-image in RL. Apart from what Dillon cleverly calls the "baseline" issue, there are also issues relating to code, to the "material" conditions of the platform. Things like being able to fit into clothing, or dancing with someone without floating a foot above the ground. For instance, although most mesh clothing makers produce their wares in multiple sizes, someone who was representing as "obese" would simply not be able to do so while wearing most commercially available outfits. If you'd like to shoot me a notecard with questions in-world, feel free, or send me an IM, but perhaps you feel you have enough information. Alternately, you could post some supplemental questions here?

Thank you Dillon! I may have permitted my natural predilection for purple prose a bit more leeway in that particular piece than I normally do. As for orcas in particular -- well, I was probably remembering how jiggly boobs were, for a brief while, the "killer app" in SL viewers. And one thought just led to another. ;-)

Thank you for your very kind words, Madelaine! Of course, it would be easier to take them seriously if we didn't already know that I am merely a shopping-loving articulation of you. (Is there room under the bed for Snugs and me?) ;-) Bella is, I think, a psychology student. I wonder if it would be possible to engage in a psychological study of avatars, rather than of their operators? I'm not entirely sure that psychology has a frame of reference broad enough to do that, but it's an interesting thought.

Bella, I'd like to echo others who have praised you for your survey, which has some problems (what Kelli says above is particularly pertinent -- gender binarism in particular is a big issue in social media these days), but which is nonetheless well thought-out and interesting. I also want to compliment you on your comportment here: too many researchers/students simply drop a link to a (usually dreadfully designed) survey here, and then disappear. That you took the time to explain who you were, and provided some RL info for your research is important, but so too is the time and effort you've taken in responding to posts here. I would like to reiterate what a few have said above: a purely quantitative approach to your research, when applied to something as nebulous and complicated as the relationship between "real" and "virtual" identities and self-image, is inevitably going to be reductive. There were dozens of places in your survey where I wanted to comment, but couldn't. Can I suggest that you take a bit of time and do some in-world interviews too? You'll get a far more nuanced view of your subject than you would otherwise. Oh, and point your professor to this thread. He should know how professionally you've managed this. :-) Finally -- I seem to do this too much here, but -- I blogged on something very like the subject of your research a few weeks ago. It might be worth a look. Or not. :-) "''Why Is Your Avatar So Sexy?' Choice and the Two Cultures."

This kind of technology is very much at the heart of Phlip Rosedale's new "High Fidelity" project, but the tech is nowhere near as advanced as these videos suggest. You can read about the work on "High Fidelity" here: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/making-virtual-reality-less-virtual/282640/ (And if you want -- she said, modestly -- you can read what I say about it here: http://laskyaclaren.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/oculus-rift-high-fidelity-and-the-limits-of-the-imagination/)

Georgina, if you're still there, you might check this out. I found it researching a blog post I wrote a week or so ago, using (of all things!) Google. It's an unpublished article by a Turkish academic (in English) that addresses your question directly. https://www.academia.edu/1583420/Avatar_Art_The_Re_Creation_of_Self There are some very good answers here already. I'm not sure I have an opinion myself that I could summarize easily. Art can be "self-expression," and it can have a meaning that can be paraphrased, but neither is necessary, and neither is a sufficient definition. Art is defined by social convention: a century ago, Jackson Pollock wasn't "art," and 150 years ago, neither were the Impressionists. We've just decided that they are. I think you've asked a difficult question because, as the discussion here indicates, you first need to define "art." Maybe it would be better to talk about avatars as a form of self-expression? (And there goes my status as a forum lurker.)