Chip Midnight

Are you getting any specific error message? If not then problem is likely with missing bone names in the name array. If you're getting an error message it may be something else, like a texture map name that has a space in it. The easiest way to do the name array is just keep a complete bone list in a text file. After you export your DAE, copy and paste the full list after the last bone name that's listed. It doesn't matter if bones are listed more than once. Don't overwrite the bones that are already there. That can cause your rigging to go haywire if you're doing fitted mesh.

That should be ammended to say 2011.3.1 and above. Any version of the exporter after that works also.

Yep, you got it. I forget about that one all the time.

Looks great. Glad you were able to get it sorted.

Yep. The easiest way to do it is to copy the complete bone list and paste it after the last bone in the name_array. It doesn't matter if bone names appear more than once. Don't replace the existing list or bad things can happen. Change the count to 50. Good job figuring it out yourself!

If something is being marketed as a celebrity likeness that would clearly be unethical, but something that bears a passing resemblance without mentioning any names should be fine. Please note, I am not lawyer.

Use Autodesk's standalone FBX converter to go from FBX to DAE. That's worked for me. There's no need to use Blender as an intermediary. Check the version of the FBX plugin you're using. Multi-subs are currently working for me going directly to DAE with the 2013.2 plugin. Presumably the current 2013.3 works also but I haven't upgraded to it yet. The standalone converter is here - http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=22694909 The FBX plugin is here - http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=10775920

That looks a lot better. I think that part of your problem is that when you change joint positions and upload with Joint positions checked SL assumes you've changed proportions but not rotations. It still expects a T-pose, not an A-pose. I could be wrong about that but I find it's easier all around to just model and rig to SL's standard T-pose, even though it's not the ideal pose for rigging. This is an artifact of uploadable rigged mesh being tacked on to a system that wasn't originally designed for it.

Snapshot is in the tools menu. It will create a new editable mesh from the selected mesh with any current deformations baked in. Since you already have your mesh rigged then using the existing bones to deform the mesh to a T-pose that matches up to the default skeleton is going to be a lot faster and easier than editing it manually, even if the snapshot needs a bit of tweaking. Then you'll have a new mesh that you can rig to the default pose.

Yes, you want to rig to the T pose. What I'd suggest is taking your existing rig in Max and move in into a T pose that matches the default joint positions, then snapshot the mesh in that position and redo the rigging on a fresh skeleton.

Did you rig to the base bones or to the collision bones? I'm wondering if part of the problem may be from your shape settings. I'd also highly recommend adjusting the mesh to fit the bones rather than the other way around.

I think I've figured this out finally. I realized I couldn't even import my exports back into Max without them looking like the same jumbled mess I'm getting in SL, but they would work imported back into Max before adding in the missing bone names to the name_array of the DAE.I'm still completely baffled by this because I've been doing this the same way for ages. These files shouldn't have worked at all. Bad name arrays have always either produced a file where skin weights couldn't be imported or that wouldn't parse at all. I've replaced the bone list I copy and paste from to append the missing bone names and things seem to be working again. Truly bizarre.

Using the same import and export settings and the same version of the FBX plugin I'm still getting garbage. I'm completely flummoxed.

It doesn't get me any closer to figuring out what's going wrong but it at least narrows it down to something happening locally on my end and gives me a benchmark for what should be working. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to test and share your settings.

Thanks, Harry. Could you tell me the export settings you used?

Possibly a rigging issue? Are the edges of the disappearing face properly welded to its neighbors?

You'd think that using industry standard formats like FBX and DAE that these kinds of scale issues wouldn't happen between apps, but I've had similar issues going from Max to Blender. Hope someone can provide you some insights because it might help me unravel problems I've been having recently with skin modifiers and bone scale.

I've had issues getting working multi-sub materials out of Max when exporting directly to DAE. If you run into problems you may want to try exporting as FBX and then converting to DAE with the standalone FBX converter.

You may be able to do something similar with the Mesh Deform modifier in Blender.

If you've rigged for fitted mesh there's really no reason to do diffeent sizes any more. The workflow for fitted mesh is to model to the default shape and rig to the collision bones, then the mesh item will conform to any shape, including the standard sizes. I can't speak to Blender because I don't use it, and I'm not sure if Blender has equivelant tools, but for what it's worth here's how I generated different sizes for mesh clothing in 3ds Max. I used the standard size avatar meshes to create morph targets so a single rigged avatar in Max could be morphed to any of the standard size shapes. I'd rig my mesh clothing to a medium size and then save the vertex weights so they could be imported again later. I'd then use a skin wrap modifier on the mesh item so it would conform to the avatar as it morphed to a different size. I'd then snapshot the mesh with the avatar morphed to each of the standard sizes, add a skin modifier to those snapshots, and import the vertex weights I'd saved previously.

Thanks for checking, Astrid. Good to know that Blender remains unchanged. The issue seems specifically related to bone scale, and near as I can tell specifically the collision bones. I really need to get the units setups from a Max user who's able to get working fitted mesh out currently. I'm completely baffled about what's going on. SL has always been pretty forgiving about scale issues. Stuff I'd built in the wrong system scale (inches) still worked fine. That seems no longer to be the case, at least for me, and testing various combinations of settings so far hasn't arrived at a combination that works. If I set my system units and display units both to meters and import LL's fbx as centimeters it yields a rig that is 1.8 meters tall which should be proper scale. I export to DAE with scale factor of 1.0 (meters) so no scaling is being performed on conversion. On upload to SL, it sees it as 1.8 meters tall, as it should, but this is the result... It makes no sense at all, especially since SL and Max are supposedly using the same unit scale. This should in theory be a 1 to 1 conversion. Okay, so it looks like bone scale is way too high, like al the fit bones have been scaled, pushing the verts they influence out into a balloon-like mess. So let's try something else. This time system units is set to centimeters. Display units is set to meters. The fbx is imported as centimeters (scale factor of 1.0). This yields a rig that is 0.0187 meters. I export to DAE with a scale factor of 1.0 (centimeters). SL sees the model as .019 meters, but the result is the same. Okay, so rig scale is irrelevant. Maybe the important thing is the scale factor on export. If it's still blowing the bone scale out, let's try exporting as meters which gives a scale factor of 0.01. SL now sees the rig as 1.8 meters again, but the result is the same. So scale factor of .01 is scaling up, not down. Let's try going the other direction, setting export units to milimeters, which gives a scale factor of 10. SL now sees the model as .002 meters. Result? The same. If export scale is making no difference, then the issue must be conversion happening on import. So with system units still set to centimeters, and display units still set to meters, lets reimport the fbx as meters, which gives a scale factor of .01 yielding a rig of .00019 meters. Exported as centimeters (scale factor 1.0). SL sees the rig as .019 meters. Result? Same. What the @#$%! is going on here?

I though I'd probably just changed a setting in the FBX/DAE exporter and lost whatever magic combination was making it work previously, and that's still a possibility, but getting the same results from dae files I created weeks ago that previously uploaded fine makes me think something has changed on the back end.

I've tried in both the current release viewer from LL 3.7.25 (299021) and Firestorm 4.6.7 (42398). Same issues in both.

I've been exporting rigged mesh out of Max into SL without issue for several years with few problems. Now, suddenly, it plain isn't working. DAE files that used to import fine now either crash the viewer or have crazy scale issues where joint positions remain correct but the mesh is inflated around the bones so it looks like a blob with giant hands and feet sticking out. I'm wondering if another Max user can try a simple test so I can find out whether or not it's broken or if I've suddenly gone crazy and incompetent. Try this - import one of the fitted mesh rigs downloadable from the wiki using your regular workflow then export it back out and try to import into SL. Are you getting something usable or are you getting a jumbled beach ball with flippers? If you got a usable fitted rigged mesh please let me know your system units, display units, and import and export units settings. Thanks!

I may need to start doing rigging in Blender for fitted mesh, but for now I'm trying to get a workflow set up in 3ds Max since it's where I do everything else. I've got it working pretty well now after a lot of trial and error, though I'm not going to know how this avatar holds up to other creators' clothing until more of it comes out. Since I'm working at about three times the poly density of the default mesh I've had to do a lot more blending. The result is an av that animates much more gracefuly than the default, but the end goal is something that's compatible with a wide array of clothing items that don't need to be made just for it. Time will tell.