MP Search - Useful for finding just about anything else BUT what you're looking for

[Ilyra Chardin]

I put in the following phrase into search on MP, "sculpt books.".  I am logged on and my preferences allow displays of general, mature and adult content.  Page 1 came up with one bed, two bedroom sets a living room set, cuddle rugs (not even my own :-O), slave clothes, an outdoor sex bath, a porch set and 1 old-style basic prim bookcase for L$1.

I wonder HOW anyone manages to find my products if they don't know to go directly to my store.  I'm now thankful for those that have bought from me and can only attribute it to word of mouth.

The commerce team regularly polices category listings, but anyone can type any keywords into their listing, rendering them next to useless. I want sculpt books.  I am not looking for bikini-like slave clothes or a sex bath or porch furniture etc.

I'm just amazed.  That's all that I can say.

[Rene Erlanger]

The problem with MP Search...is the same as the current in-world LL "Classified Adverts" listing in both their V2 & V3 viewers.

They both work off  "partial keyword phrase matching" as oppose to "exact keyword phrase matching" like the Classified Advert listings from the older 1.23 Viewers.

What this means, that products shown when searching for "Sculpt Books"...only have to have 1 of those 2 words listed in their "Product name" or "Keyword Listing Box" to be thrown into the "relevance" section of MP Search. So a "Sculpt Bed" will be listed because of the keyword "Sculpt" regardless that it's completely the wrong product type for your Search.

Marketplace Search would work much more effectively,  if it were weighted towards "exact keyword phrase matching"....and preferably scoring higher ranking points if it were contained within the "Product" Name box as opposed to 1 of the words listed in the "Keywords listing box.". If they did it that way, you'd see a definite improvement to MP searches, with purely relevant products listed in the top pages.......whilst products that only contain 1 of those 2 words i.e "Sculpt" or "Books" would be listed lower down the search listings.

[Chelsea Malibu]

Agreed and the biggest problem with search relevance both in world and the MP since it's inception.  Trust me when I tell you this is way better than it used to be since few are around who remember how bad it was.  I actually thin k MP search is pretty good since you can drill down by category search.

In world is terrible as well but it does work to a small degree in that it captures keywords but most are not accurate in their key words.  The system looks at your land name and description first. If these are not accurate or are talking about something else, it throws off the entire system.

There also seems to be less relevance to object set to search as it was for a while.  An example would be if I had 200 Cowboy Hats for sale and someone else has 2 Cowboy Hats for sale.  One would think that the person with 200 would have higher ranking but it does not give much weight to that now.

My suggestion to fix this is not very popular as well.  I think anyone who pays for a classified should have higher ranking over those who do not.  I also think we should be paying for keywords or at the least, limited to how many key words we can use per placement or classified and those keywords have the highest weight in the search algorithm.

But we are where we are today.  A terrible disservice to both businesses and residents who can't find anything so they do what I think is an intentional traffic driver, they go to MP do their searches there then visit the stores in world.

 

[Rene Erlanger]

I think Ilyra was talking about Marketplace Search

The new In-world Search works differently, it's weighted towards Land name and then Land description....object names helps a bit, but not as much as before, but still essential (a reason for that). There are a couple of other categories that effect Search ranking,  that were not so important in the GSA Search Engine.

I don't think we should pay for "Keywords", as it favours the biggest businesses with deeper pockets,....we already have that system with Classified adverts, no need for duplication..

The biggest problem & drawback to  Search & Classifieds and any other in-world search are the lack of visibility within the LL official viewers (for new residents). It appears as a "Looking Glass" icon...whereas Markeplace appears next to your Linden balances and BUY buttons as a shopping cart and titled "Shop".

[Chelsea Malibu]

Actually I was talking about both and think I made it a bit confusing.  The point I was trying to make which I clearly did not was that MP search is actually pretty good compared to in world search and a large part of how people find things since it works so much better than in world search.

As far as paying for key words is that yes it could if it was run as the highest bidder.  However, if you either limited it to say 5 or 10 key words per listing and/or charged 10L per keyword per week, that would not be too cumbersome for most.  But yes, it would favor successful businesses as I believe it should. 

There are reasons businesses become a success and it's rarely by sheer luck.  But as I had said, paying for keywords or limiting them seems to be another controversial area however, I don't seen many other ideas other than "just fix it" or "it needs to be fixed".  But ours is not to question why, it's just what we have to work with in this very long and very robust beta test we call SL.

[Ilyra Chardin]

I toyed with multiple solutions in my mind and discarded them.  One solution would be to ask the Commerce Team to govern keyword entries in the same way that they govern category listings.  The problem is that the sheer volume of products would overwhelm them.  If they asked for resident volunteers to help that might lead to reviewers favoring their friends or using it to thwart competition. 

So the only solution seems to be to fix the search algorithm,  Maybe even do away with the keywords altogether (one or both or more of you suggested that) and key in on the product name only.

There are so many issues right now with MP (people selling free items for linden dollars, people using keywords across all their products, a category set that may need an expansion, etc.) and more people entering into it each day.  Anyone who can put out a magic box can be a merchant.  This will only get worse if direct delivery is enabled because then sellers will not need to have land to place a magic box.  But a good start to making improvements would be a search fix.

My two cents (L$5)

 

[Rene Erlanger]

It's apple and oranges Chelsea...it's not like for like Search criteria even though the use the same Search software.

Marketplace Search is geared to search for actual "product" ...the listing provides, detailed descriptions, features, permissions, reviews, price & photos. In-world Search focuses on  "location"...and is really dependent on Land name & description, size of land, text density, traffic, object name & description......you don't get really get any visibility of the actual products themselves (unless you use the older viewer 1.23, that have the GO buttons to product location on the product listing page.)

You already have a system that is biased towards successful businesses (and deeper pockets) and that is Classified adverts. Why handicap new & small businesses from the outset from getting in-world visibility? All businesses should have an equal chance & opportunity when starting out.

The problem of In-world Search (all search tabs including Classifieds) is visibility inside the Linden Viewers...there up against an obvious button called "Shop" which is Marketplace. It's not the Search engine that has killed in-world traffic....it's the bias towards Marketplace. If you performed an exercise with 100 new SL residents and asked them to purchase and bring back a product XYZ .....i'll lay money that the majority will hit the button called "Shop" which leads them into Marketplace. People are not using In-world Search like they use......even Classifieds get less TP's....because it's hidden and tucked away.

Paying for keywords won't help either and i know that for a fact. I've been monitoring all of my shops in-world traffic for over 4 years now (Excel spreadsheets).....the difference is startling when attaining a no.1 spot for a popular keyword in any of my sectors in 2012...when compared to similar no.1 positions in 2008/ 9.  I'm talking about 75% reduction in unique visitor traffic. Example : A shop that might have had 150 -200 unique visitors per day whilst at top of Search for a popular keyword.....it receives less than 50 (around 25 to 50 per day) in 2012.  I monitor 20+ shops located around the Grid and these are not rogue results ....not when it's right across the board.....it's no accident.!

[Guest]

Just as an aside - I was trying to find an eating animation for a dining set and put 'eating' in the search.  Wooohooo you would not believe what came up! My education is now complete.....

 

[Rene Erlanger]

Meeroos food? They also happen to be the best selling items on the entire Marketplace shopping site.

 

Even when i typed in "eating animation"...it still came up mainly with Meeroo food products, due tof the "eating" keyword, most likely entered in their "Keywords" listing box

There lies the fault in the entire Marketplace Search system under "relevance". It works on "partial matches" and not "exact matches"...hence alll the rubbish results (or non relevant) ones you'll see.

[Ilyra Chardin]

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Marniemay wrote:

Just as an aside - I was trying to find an eating animation for a dining set and put 'eating' in the search.  Wooohooo you would not believe what came up! My education is now complete.....

 

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ROFL!

I get lost trying to find things on MP.  I have to dedicate a lot of time and a whole lot of page views to finally get to a page that has some semblance of the item that I'm looking for.

Here's to intestinal fortitude. Cheers.

[Perrie Juran]

It really can be weird sometimes.

I am wanting to get a (language) translator.

Typing "translator" into search yielded a large number of 'ball gags.'

I still haven't figured out the relationship of a ball gag to a translator unless it converts "mumble, mumble, mumble" to recognizable text.

Seriously!

 

[Rene Erlanger]

..as well as "Product name"  and keywords from the "Keyword listing box".....does it also include words used in "  "Description" and "Features" ?....i hope not!

[Perrie Juran]

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Rene Erlanger wrote:

..as well as "Product name"  and keywords from the "Keyword listing box".....does it also include words used in "  "Description" and "Features" ?....i hope not!

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I just checked one listing and under details it states:

"Our channel cheat system, to stop people using channel listeners or gag translators to decipher the message."

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/CE-Harness-Gag-Ball/2085438

 

/me shrugs.  gets so nuts.

 

[Rene Erlanger]

There you have it! It's including words & phrases in Description (or Details) box.

Search "relevance" should be based on Product name and Keywords box. For 2 or 3 word phrases, it should be based with exact match being weighted higher than any partial matches.