No Kreditcard no Upload

[Angeleos Hoffnung]

Well, i was trying to support Mesh in second Life, because many People are afraid of it, having problems and so on. It was really good until i wanted to upload a mesh. 

 

..... Well, the question and answers for getting certified are easy because everyone should know copyright and law and so on, but.....i can not make a payment setting because even the Paypal account only supports Kreditcards for Linden Lab.So what should i do now, i really don´t want to call up on Paypal or Lindenlab because this would cost money, and i think this is not nessecary at all.

So, no upload for me i guess, even if i am working outside of SL making Meshes all the time? I guess this is a non trust Meshbuilder, but if this is true i am really not happy guys. :(

[Chosen Few]

Because of copyright concerns, LL does require that everyone who wants to upload mesh has payment info on file.  It's their only means of identifying the user as an individual.  Say someone rips a bunch of models out of a game, and uploads them to SL.  When the game company comes a callin' with DMCA takedown notices and such, LL needs to be able to deal with the accused as a real person.  They need to ensure no one can just use endless throw-away accounts to commit piracy.

Really, they should have been doing this all along for textures, sounds, animations, etc.  The amount of IP theft going on with those items has always been nothing short of mind blowing.

Just be glad they didn't do the first idea, which was to make mesh upload a paid service.  Had that idea stuck, you'd have to pay a monthly fee for the privilege of mesh upload.

I take it from your spelling of "kredit" with a K instead of a C, and from the fact that you said it would cost you money to call LL or PayPal, that you're not in the US.  If you're in a country where it's difficult or impossible to obtain a credit card, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

[Ranya Palmer]

The lindens also used this method because they CAN disable a user's ability to upload mesh, if they are found guilty of multiple cases of IP infringement, and like Chosen said, it keeps people from hiding behind throw away accounts.

I see it as a good compromise because I will never upgrade to a premium account, but I do have a pre-paid credit card info in file and that allows me to upload mesh.

I think LL knew it would cause a huge upset to the community if they imposed such restrictions and just allowed premium users to upload mesh, I was quite excited when I heard that you would at least have to have a creditcard on file and I had that covered already so I was good, but I do understand that there are people that don't have that option and that's so unfortunate, they could have at least made more options available for people from other countries who don't have a creditcard as an option.

[Angeleos Hoffnung]

Well i see the reasons for this and i already thought it might be that way. But well, so this is true. Hard, but it was just a matter of time, i was always wondering that copyright and othere important things are handled very soft in Second Life when i was new there....

I would write more but i can´t explain myself in english like i could in german, so yeah my mistake whith K and not c is because i am from germany.  Its just, i tried to get people interested for Mesh support, now it is even harder to tell them what is good about meshes, Don´t get me wrong this is not my opinion, this is a very sad thing. Its a mixture of beeing afraidf of this new tool and that it looks too difficult to use. If i have to tell this in my mesh report....it will be worse.

 

I waited 2 years for this Mesh Support.....But i knew it would end up like that. Sad thing.....

[Chosen Few]

Sorry to hear you're in such a bind, Angeleos.  I don't pretend to know anything about Gernany, or how credit cards work there, so I'm afraid I can't advise you.  All I can say is good luck getting it resolved.  I hope you can find a solution.

I do hope you'll continue to help people overcome their fear of mesh.  It's obvious your heart is in the right place, and that you could do a lot of good for the community.

[Angeleos Hoffnung]

I give my very best and i will stay friendly and give knowledge to the people. I decided to make a nice report that solves problems but also to say the hard thing about it but in a way that they hopefully react quite normal.

 

And what i see is, that even without mesh would this copyright thing impact hugely on the thinking and behavior of Second Life users. I remember i talked to a person that really believed it is no problem to build real life things like cars, boots and so on or use meshes from free sites. He doesn´t even hear about what i was saying that this is not correct and that it was a problem for linden lab before.

 

For me, i have my own little company and i am something like a Gamedesigner and Advertisment Designer. So i know the problems with copyright usage and i am a supporter to safe intellectual property. Its a little offtopic, but you can see my Videos here : http://www.youtube.com/user/Mathesmatte?feature=mhee

I even bought an own camera for 200 euros [which is quite mid quality] to make my own textures so that i have full control over my work an i never have to worry about it. Its the best thing you can do, i couldn´t even imagine how it was bevore, i always had to look for stuff that isn´t copyprotected and is free to use even commercially.

One fact is true, it is hard to avoid to use things that are copyrighted, even if you do your best. Even Linden Lab had this problem by themself in this demo : 

[Hulk is a comic hero from Marvel]. 

The best thing for me was to keep this in mind whatever i am doing, first thinkin about it, than doing it [in german, erst Denken dann Handeln]. 

Well i hope only one thing, that this will not make such a huge impact on creativity. ID software had this problems too, with garrys mod, because people used Nintendo charackters in this mod to make videos. But they found a solution as i remember. The easiest solution to me would be to erase every second life account that broke the mesh creation rules. 

Like, i have read the terms and conditions, which another pop up onther time to make sure you agreed, which is standart in this games industry. But the funny thing is, and at this point i understand linden lab, most people didn´t read the terms and conditions and give a ........ of it . 

 

So, well lets look what i can do, perhaps i will buy a creditcard for 30 euros per year. I will give it a try. So, as i said, i will do my best to give knowledge about meshes in Second life as best as i could. I hope this will make a small but good impact for mesh builder and mesh users  

Perhaps i can make some people happy with that.

Many greets 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

It's been a while, several years ago actually, but I am 100% sure I got my payment verification with PayPal, not a PayPal Debit card (or credit card, what is it?). I bought lindens for a single dollar. You might want to grab hold of a Linden through the support channels, they helped me quite well.

[Glod Gloom]

Payment informations to LL? No way....  I will never give away any Paymentinformation in the web. Thats not secure enough for me.

Only Meshupload with those Inforamtions?  Sorry... Mesh is died for me....

[Chosen Few]

---

Glod Gloom wrote:

I will never give away any Paymentinformation in the web. Thats not secure enough for me.

---

So you never pay for anything at all then, with any form of electronic payment?  You do know that every time you use your credit card, ATM card, etc., your information is transmitted over the Internet, right? 

Even paper payments aren't secure.  Every time you write someone a check, you're handing out your bank account number.

If you want to live entirely off the grid, grow your own food, only pay for things with physical currency, go right ahead.  You'll be totally secure.  You'll also be a hermit. 

Me, I'd rather enjoy the conveniences modern society has to offer.  Does it bother me that Google knows my whereabouts at all times, thanks to my Android phone, or that Walmart knows what medications I take, or that the teller at the bank can see that I bought flowers for someone last week?  Maybe a little, but hardly enough to make me go to pains not to leave a trail. 

I'm afraid I don't have enough room in my budget for so many tin foil hats.

[Glod Gloom]

1. I dont have a Creditcard

2. i dont use Paypal

3. i use only a anonym Payment-format for the web, thats in Germany available, its called PaySaveCard

in Germany we say  "Bei Geld hört die Freundschaft auf"  ( Frendship ends at the Money (sorry there inst any correct translation or Idiom for it))

who can say me thats Lindens databases secure enough, that no ScriptKiddy can take my or your Creditcardnumber or bankinginformation.

if you say, its ok for you and you have enough confidence therein ... make it, its just your money.....

EoD

 

[Glod Gloom]

1. I dont have a Creditcard

2. i dont use Paypal

3. i use only a anonym Payment-format for the web, thats in Germany available, its called PaySaveCard

in Germany we say  "Bei Geld hört die Freundschaft auf"  ( Frendship ends at the Money (sorry there inst any correct translation or Idiom for it))

who can say me thats Lindens databases secure enough, that no ScriptKiddy can take my or your Creditcardnumber or bankinginformation.

if you say, its ok for you and you have enough confidence therein ... make it, its just your money.....

EoD

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I'm not going to state PayPal is 100% secure, but people still need your login data to ever access your account, do you think Linden Lab can access your money? Ofcourse not.

It never hurts to be careful, but you can't blame Linden Lab for asking some form of verification.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I'm not going to state PayPal is 100% secure, but people still need your login data to ever access your account, do you think Linden Lab can access your money? Ofcourse not.

It never hurts to be careful, but you can't blame Linden Lab for asking some form of verification.

[Glod Gloom]

only around the clarification.

I am not against verification, I am against the kind of the verification.

During the age examination I had to finally deposit also no Paymentinfo. Why should be possible not also with the Meshuploads.

Only with that they know who behind the Avatar , LL do not need any payment information.

And I think I stand not alone there, which concerns the opinion over the verification by means of Paymentinfos.

[Glod Gloom]

only around the clarification.

I am not against verification, I am against the kind of the verification.

During the age examination I had to finally deposit also no Paymentinfo. Why should be possible not also with the Meshuploads.

Only with that they know who behind the Avatar , LL do not need any payment information.

And I think I stand not alone there, which concerns the opinion over the verification by means of Paymentinfos.

[Chosen Few]

---

Glod Gloom wrote:

 

3. i use only a anonym Payment-format for the web, thats in Germany available, its called PaySaveCard

 

---

We have PaySafeCard here in the US as well.  We also have a number of competing services, such as Walmart MoneyCard.  They're handy in a pinch. 

I bought a Walmart card once, after my bank card all of a sudden stopped working.  It turned out it had been inexplicably cancelled for no apparent reason at all.  No one at the bank could tell me why.  While I was waiting for a replacement bank card, I used the Walmart card to pay my bills.

But I would never want to use a prepaid card as my primary means of finance.  For one thing, they cost money to have, while my bank card is free.  It's also quite inconvenient to have to write myself a check to take cash out of the bank, and then take the cash to the store in order to fill up the card.  With my bank card, I've got instant access to my funds, no hassle (the one unexpected cancellation in 20 some years of banking, notwithstanding).   More importantly, my bank account is insured by the US government.  If someone hacks my information, and steals my money, the funds can be recovered.  If someone steals money from an anonymous prepaid account, however, it's gone.  MAYBE the company would be good enough to cover you if that were to happen, but they certainly don't have to just take your word for it.

 

---

Glod Gloom wrote:

who can say me thats Lindens databases secure enough, that no ScriptKiddy can take my or your Creditcardnumber or bankinginformation.

---

And who can say that PaySafeCard's database is secure enough that the same thing can't happen?  For that matter, who's to say it's reliable enough that the company will remember how much you've put in? 

While we're on the subject, who's to say the mechanic who fixed your car last week didn't inadvertently screw up your breaks, and that you're not now fated to die in the resulting crash tomorrow?  Who's to say the orange juice I drank this morning was properly pasteurized, and that I'm not going to get food poisoning from it?  Who's to say tin foil hats don't amplify mind control waves, instead of block them?

At the end of the day, all we can do is trust that the companies with whom we do business are competent to do the job they've promised to do. If friendship really stops at the money, as you said, then we can all lament for the fact that people are so limited.  But the fact remains that a business relationship is NOT a friendship.  Linden Lab and I don't hang out at the bar on Friday nights, and we don't call each other up to shoot the breeze.  I'm their customer, and they're my service provider, and that's that.  They're there to a job, not to be anyone's buddy.

I'm much more concerned about the guy with the $10 handheld EM scanner, who can read my card information right through my pocket, than I am about the one who might hack into Linden Lab.  But I still go out in public, with all my cards in my wallet, nonetheless.

 

---

Glod Gloom wrote:

I am not against verification, I am against the kind of the verification.

---

What do you see as a viable alternative?  What other kinds of services exist that can verify that you are indeed who you say you are, that Linden Lab could as easily utilize as payment information, and that would fully satisfy LL's legal responsibilities should a copyright or trademark suit ever come up as a result of meshes you'v uploaded?