Group Owned Land

[Geoff Quinnell]

Hi all…

I have been in Second Life many years, but have never been involved in any Group Owned Land, so pardon my naivety in asking a few, hopefully simple, questions in how they work.

My self and a few friends are wanting to purchase a single plot of Mainland and deed to a group.

Am I correct in thinking that firstly, all we do then is to enter our contribution based on what premium allowance we each get, in the “Land & L$” tab in the group profile?

And secondly, am I also correct in thinking that each of our account pages/land use fees then picks up what share of the tier we would each be paying?

One last question… Do all members of the group automatically pay a share of the tier, or can there be some members in the same group who don’t pay a share?... and how is that done?

Thank you for any help.

Regards

Geoff Quinnell

[Persephone Emerald]

Hi, Geoff

Short answer:

You're correct on everything you said, except that automatic payments to LL depend on how each person sets up their account, those can be revoked by the account holder at any time, and they won't work if there are insuffient funds to cover payment.

Longer answer:

The person who creates the group is the first group owner. They can add other people as co-owners, and in doing so those people get all the same owner rights, including the ability to sell or abandon the land or kick out everyone from the group except other group owners. Be very careful who you trust with group ownership! Personally, I would not trust anyone else with group ownership except my alts, although I've had a friend make me a co-owner of a group they created.

Group members can donate as much tier as they wish, and have to manually designate in the group profile how much tier they donate. They don't have to donate any and can also remove what they have donated at any time. You can see under the "Land & L $" tab of the group profile how much tier each person has donated. If the total amount of donated tier falls below the amount needed to hold the group land, there should be a warning, but check the "Land & L$" tab periodically, because it's easy to miss this. LL will not immediately penalize the group if the amount of tier falls below the needed level, but it's possible the group owner(s) could be locked out of their account(s) for unpaid debts or the land could be taken back by Governance.

Once you have a group and enough donated tier in it to purchase the land, one group owner must wear their group tag and purchase the land "for a group", not as an individual. This will allow the group to purchase 10% more land without paying for extra tier. At this point, if there is abandoned land in the same region, one of the owners can put in a customer support ticket to buy it directly from LL, usually at $L 1/ square meter.  Even if this land doesn't touch the main parcel, this will give you more land impact to use. 

Because you can't control when those who have donate tier might withdraw it or run into payment problems, be prepared to cut off and abandon pieces of the land if necessary, in order to avoid jeopardizing the rest of the land. Group owners should also have a Basic account alt as a member of the group, with Owner rights, so that if their Premium account gets locked out, they can still manage the group and land.

Group land can be a wonderful way to have more land and create a community in SL, but it can also lead to drama and broken friendships if conflicts occur. 

Good Luck with your group and land! 😊 

 

Edited January 22 by Persephone Emerald
Spelling typo

[Geoff Quinnell]

Thank you Persephone for your reply.

Very kind of you to take the time and go into the details.

So to clarify... as an example:

I person buys a 8192 sqm of mainland and the land is deeded to a group, with those 3 people as members.

They each donate their premium allowance of 1024 sqm (3072 sqm in total)

This would leave a balance of 5120 sqm of land to be divided 3 ways (approx 1706 sqm each).

So in each of the 3 members land use fees webpage, a relevant tier band of 13 US Dollars pm is selected?

Are my calculations correct?

Thank you again

Geoff

[Qie Niangao]

20 minutes ago, Geoff Quinnell said:

a 8192 sqm of mainland

First, just to reiterate Persephone's post, the easier and safer order is for the group contributions to be made first, and only then the land is Bought For Group by one of the group owners with the relevant group active.

Now, the calculations are going to end up close to yours, but in detail: 8192 m² of land, deeded to group, needs only 8192m² / 1.1 tier because group tier gets a 10% bonus. That's 7447.273 m²; split equally among the three members each would need to contribute 2482.424 m². As premium members you start with 1024 m² tier so if no other land holdings are involved, you'd each need to pay for an additional 1458.424 m² tier somehow, which as you say is in the $13/mo bracket which actually gives 2048 m² tier, so more than enough to spare for owning a 512 m² Linden Home or personal Mainland parcel, or future group land expansion, etc.

But just to be annoying, if that group-owned 8192 is all the land any of you will ever want, observe that the three of you, each paying US$13 each month, totals US$39/month paid to the Lab, whereas 8192 m² tier, paid by an individual account, no group discount or anything, costs only US$31/month, with 1024 m² premium bonus tier to use for something else. There are also other ways to divide up the tier for different savings, but it may all be academic if you'd each like to spend that spare tier for private hideaways, etc.

[Persephone Emerald]

Once 3 people have donated 1024 m each to your group, the amount of tier available for the group to purchase land will be 3379 square meters because of the 10 % group land bonus. Because land can only be purchased in units divisible by 16 (4x4), this would actually allow the group to purchase 3376 square meters.

As Qie explains above, it's best to calculate how much you all want to contribute and to do so before purchasing your land. This way you'll get the 10% bonus upfront and ensure there are no misunderstandings or hurt feelings later.

If one or more of you decides to get a Linden Home, it can also be set to your group if you wish, so everyone in the group can rez items there, but it will still only be owned by the person who owns the account for it.

[Geoff Quinnell]

Thank you Qie & Persephone for your replies

Something I did over look was Qies point of 3 people paying $13 (total of $39) for a parcel that would only cost 1 person $31 pm... I missed that one lol

Thank you so much for your replies and help.

Geoff

[Persephone Emerald]

We can make this even more complicated by considering the cost savings of each person having multiple annual Premium accounts, rather than paying monthly tier payments. 

3 people paying for 1 annual Premium account and $ 13/ month each will cost them $ 255/ year. If one person pays all of the monthy tier cost to LL, then splits the cost with the other 2 people, this will cost them each $ 223/ year, but one person would have to make sure the other 2 pay their share on time each month.

If each person pays for 2 Premium accounts, this would cost them each $ 198/ year and would give the group 6752 square meters of tier. Subtract that from the 8192 sq m you want to buy, and this leaves only 1440 sq m of tier that would need to be paid monthy. Divided by 3 people, this would be 480 sq m each, or realistically 512 m each, which is $ 4/ month (plus tax ?). They'd each pay $ 246/ year. They'd also have twice the monthy stipend, however, which is worth about $ 60/ account/ year.

[Geoff Quinnell]

Thank you again Persephone

I think our group needs to get together and weigh up the options... my brain is on fire haha 

Thanks again

Geoff