Wiki: PUBLIC_CHANNEL vs Zero

[Perrie Juran]

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Strife Onizuka wrote:

I am not offended at all by any dispariging remarks made about the quality of the documentation. There are a lot of things I could do to improve the wiki. They would take a lot of time and effort. Alas I am a volunteer with limited time and being unpaid, limited motivation to tackle the hard projects. My current project is a category system for similar parameters (since parameter restrictions essentially describe what in other languages would be a derived type), which has the advanatage of dragging me through just about every function article. As I go through I make small changes.

Actually we are The Official documentation for LSL. Sort of like Hilton is the official hotel of the Olympics, that doesn't mean Hilton speaks for the Olympic Comity. How did we become official? We asked. Why did we ask? We figured that LL would be more likely to contribute if we were the official documentation. We were right.

Official? Yes. Definiative? No. Accurate? Not always. It wouldn't be our continuing mission to be accurate if we had already acheived it.

To summarize: The documenation sucks. So come help us fix it.

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I'm not sure if this comment was aimed at me because I was really the one to say something.

I in no way meant to disparage the information or the People who contribute to it.  I am very greatful for it.

What I am careful about is the use of the word "Official." 

I've gotten burned a couple of times when making a case for something based on statements in other parts of the Wiki.  One of the times was on an important policy issue. 

I don't believe I've ever added anything to the LSL section of the Wiki but I have updated or added additional notes to other things in the Wiki.

Maybe it's a little bit of semantics here but none of the LSL pages to my knowledege carry the "Linden Lab Official" stamp of approval.  Does that mean that they are not valuable or don't have accurate information?  Of course not!  There is a huge amount of valuable and accurate information there which again I am very greatful for.

[LepreKhaun]

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Apan Loon wrote:

Personally I prefer the verbose PUBLIC_CHANNEL even though I mostly use 0 in my own scripts because of pure laziness.

I also voted for

this

JIRA entry that would make the argument about the default script moot. But that is another story.

 

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Yeah, I always have to stifle a reply of "And a top of the mornin' to you, Object!" in sandboxes.

[Strife Onizuka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I'm not sure if this comment was aimed at me because I was really the one to say something.

I've gotten burned a couple of times when making a case for something based on statements in other parts of the Wiki.  One of the times was on an important policy issue.

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It was but at the same time it wasn't. I've heard others say similar things in the past and it's taken me some time to figure out just where I stand on all this and I felt the community at large would like to know.

I've seen people get burned (very badly) for making bad edits to LL Official content. For the love of King Philip, if you ever want to edit something LL Official on the wiki, discuss it on the talk page first. The LL Official namespace Lindens do not mess around (I don't think they entirely get the wiki concept).

I do get that some folks are no better at documentation writting than I am but I haven't let that stop me. I am mostly interested in technical content. I spend alomst no time on the Notes or Examples sections, you can put as much non-technical content as you want in those sections (within reason, no War and Peace please). If you think the documentation needs a new section or subsection we can discuss it on the wiki on my talk page(just click the "+" tab).

[Perrie Juran]

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Strife Onizuka wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I'm not sure if this comment was aimed at me because I was really the one to say something.

I've gotten burned a couple of times when making a case for something based on statements in other parts of the Wiki.  One of the times was on an important policy issue.

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It was but at the same time it wasn't. I've heard others say similar things in the past and it's taken me some time to figure out just where I stand on all this and I felt the community at large would like to know.

I've seen people get burned (very badly) for making bad edits to LL Official content. For the love of King Philip, if you ever want to edit something LL Official on the wiki, discuss it on the talk page first. The LL Official namespace Lindens do not mess around (I don't think they entirely get the wiki concept).

I do get that some folks are no better at documentation writting than I am but I haven't let that stop me. I am mostly interested in technical content. I spend alomst no time on the Notes or Examples sections, you can put as much non-technical content as you want in those sections (within reason, no War and Peace please). If you think the documentation needs a new section or subsection we can discuss it on the wiki on my

talk page

(just click the "+" tab).

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I think then on the use of the phrase "Linden Lab Official" or similar you and I will need to agree to disagree.

There are pages in other areas of the Wiki that are clearly marked "Linden Lab Official."  These are almost always policy pages and they are locked.  No one can edit them.  If you try to edit them you are presented with a form you can submit your comments with.  I've never actually used the form myself but I do hope they get reviewed by someone at LL. 

I've read some of the discussions in the LSL Wikis.  It is a more active section of the Wiki.  It is a good suggestion to use it before making a change.

Personally, when I make an edit to a Wiki page I usually try to include a link to where I got the information I have added for additional documentation.

[Adromaw Lupindo]

To be frank the assumptions that a newbie would understand what channel 0 is just looking at it is a bit of a stretch. And I’m not trying to be offensive about that. It’s just that typically the viewer doesn’t prefix your nearby chat box with /0 every time you say something. It’s a usually unseen thing. The newbie types into the box and it goes somewhere. The default script they may come across does put green text into the same place but the distinction will only be learned when they learn what the 0 or the integer for the functions definition actually is and why it’s important to it. That information comes from any number of other sources. For all they know until then they might suppose it means how many meters it's going to say it and learn later that's not the case.

PUBLIC_CHANNEL is English readable and doesn’t have pretence or hidden contexts. It’s a literal statement. It *is* the public channel. It’s in capitals for easy readability. It’s format is the same as other constants they will learn later, that they will have to convert to numbers themselves to maintain their own style - or be hotmess about it.

So far not a lot has changed and it’s been mildly safe. But if the environment decides to break from starting at 0 for whatever reason in any years to come there’d be tears before bedtime.

Lep’s reference to wiki functionality is a viable case argument. The wiki is available and its usefulness isn’t impacted by where someone first learns. It’s only impacted by its own usability. I must observe, having it linkable to its further information is indispensable.

[MartinRJ Fayray]

Oh no, come on, as if anyone here cares about using literals instead of constants in SL.
Actually the literal '0' is the only value that I *DO* accept in every code - in every programming language.
It's an absolute waste of time to replace it.

IF you do replace everything, then put PUBLIC_CHANNEL in the scripts, but for the records: it is the greatest waste of time since SL was started to make an automation for that. Strife. There are probably a hundred broken scripts in the wiki, why should one care about the literal '0' in some scripts. (PS I know that this was not your idea, Strife, so I'm not aiming this at you).
My vote is: don't change anything at all. Do *NOT* link to the PUBLIC_CHANNEL page in all lsl scripts in the wiki. Do *NOT* use ANY automation to replace neither the constant 'PUBLIC_CHANNEL' NOR the literal '0'. You will break some pages and scripts as the only result.

I *DO* use the constant PUBLIC_CHANNEL in my own scripts, but in my opinion it would be an absolute waste of time to change it, since I *do* tolerate the literal '0'.

What a complete waste of time. This is such a horrible nonsense, I'm sorry if this hurts anyone....


While I agree that it is a bad programming practice to use literal values in code, the literal 0 most likely NEVER gets replaced in my own code.
Or I would end up neurotically writing crazy lines of code like this some day:

for (iIntegerCounter3 = sSmallIntMyCounterInitialValueWhichIsActuallyZero; iIntegerCounter3 < sSmallIntMyHighestAllowedValueInThisForLoop; iIntegerCounter3 = iIntegerCounter3 + iSmallIntMyValueIsOne);

What a cant discussion this is, imho. Just: wow!

FWIW In the poll on sluniverse I actually voted for 0. Darien explained to me that using 0 would require less compile time (as PUBLIC_CHANNEL gets replaced with 0 by the compiler).

 

Honestly, the very last thing that I would personally complain about when I get a script from some other scripter, is if he types 0 instead of PUBLIC_CHANNEL. I would rather complain about the font-type or color he used in his editor, or about his intendation, or about the name of his variables, than I would complain about that. This whole Haiku project is a waste of time, in my humble opinion.

[LepreKhaun]

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MartinRJ Fayray wrote:

...

 

FWIW In the poll on sluniverse I actually voted for 0. Darien explained to me that using 0 would require less compile time (as PUBLIC_CHANNEL gets replaced with 0 by the compiler).

...

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All source code is composed of characters. That '0' you wrote is actually 0x0030 in Unicode, which has to be read in as a token and then replaced with an integer after the compiler has identified that is what you meant in the context used, the same as if you had written out PUBLIC_CHANNEL.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LepreKhaun wrote:

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MartinRJ Fayray wrote:

...

 

FWIW In the poll on sluniverse I actually voted for 0. Darien explained to me that using 0 would require less compile time (as PUBLIC_CHANNEL gets replaced with 0 by the compiler).

...

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All source code is composed of characters. That '0' you wrote is actually 

0x0030 in Unicode, which has to be read in as a token and then replaced with an integer after the compiler has identified that is what you meant in the context used, the same as if you had written out PUBLIC_CHANNEL.

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And I'm certainly not in favor of obfuscating things to save a poor computer a few nanoseconds of compile time. Certainly people deserve more consideration than computers?

[Perrie Juran]

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steph Arnott wrote:

I do not think any script should use the public channel at all.

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I used to (actually still do ) have fun hiding pose balls at public places that use hide/show on the public channel.  Of course with the proliferation of things that use channel one, it could be an easy guess for me.

 

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steph Arnott wrote:

In fact it should be locked for manual user input only. Be far less spam.

 

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Are you referring to chat spam from things like tummy talkers and sex organs?  I agree that stuff is annoying.  But to say there may not be other legitimate uses I think may be wrong. 

 

 

 

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steph Arnott wrote:

ADDED: And i still do not understand the need for the "Hello avatar" to annouce it self every time a new script is created.

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Yeah, they should replace it with a sound byte, Torley's famous "Greetings everyone." 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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steph Arnott wrote:

Perrie Juran wrote

Are you referring to chat spam from things like tummy talkers and sex organs?  I agree that stuff is annoying.  But to say there may not be other legitimate uses I think may be wrong.

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99.9% of scripts using PUBLIC_CHANNEL is of no use. Why does a door have to announce "I'm open" are we all blind and if we were we not be able to read it any way. "mommy it's dark in here" my son talked at 2 years not 2 minuets, do I care, no. llOwnerSay is a function, IM is a function, they work just fine.

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I agree a lot of stuff is 'silly.'  I dislike getting spammed by the Viewer itself.  I don't need the Viewer telling me where I just teleported from or if I declined or accepted an inventory offer.  I know I declined or accepted it.  I know what I just did.

As far as "Role Play Chat," yeah, I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I do think the majority of Residents are annoyed by it.

When I was pregnant I had some fun with my customizable tummy talker.  It would say things like, "Marvin's baby stomps on Marvin's bladder in revenge for the brocoli he just ate."  Some of the other things Marvin's baby would say are not printable here.