Toysoldier Thor

LOL Well seems like Rodvik listens to the blog postings of Inara Pay and her "living in a ModemWorld" blogs. Its coincidental that only 2 days after her blog posting on how terrible LL Commerce Team has been handling the Listing Enhancements fiasco and the subsequent comments on the blog of how terrible this team's communication and management of the Marketplace is and that Rodvik has been totally ignoring the issues of this team... the Commerce Team releases a rare blog post on the issue. Here is her blog on the topic from Oct 2 http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/run-silent-run-deep-the-sl-marketplace-and-eroding-merchant-trust/#comment-10621 Thanks Inara ! Too bad the Commerce Team doesnt listen to commerce forum threads on the issue and only takes action when its blogged by a high profile SL blogger that seems to get Rodvik's attention.

@Lydia I wont argue your theory as you could be right. I do not know LL's SL systems architecture / model. As such, I do not know exactly what servers in the environment have had a lot of changes (SW or HW). I also do not know if the root cause to this new rash of unusual set of symptoms (aka... the server the sim is on goes "stale" as a Linden support person referred to it as) is because of a naturally reached trigger or caused by a griefer that discovered a loophole. I am just trying to bring together enough evidence / facts to help those in LL that can use it to isolate the problem and close the loophole or fix the bug.

Cincia Singh wrote: If you think there is a server glitch file a support ticket. Otherwise this is just venting and arguing and not really productive. A couple points: As was already mentioned to you - since Rodvik executed a mandate that Resident JIRAs will no longer be public viewable to the JIRA community, there is no other place for SL residents to communicate / share potentially larger problems on the SL grid, viewers, Marketplace than by placing these problems in the forums. The sharing of commonly experienced problems is a critical means to quickly determine if there is amore major issue going on or if its just an isolated event. This forum thread has already been openly discussed with the LL Server User Group team and the Lindens are fully aware of this thread and using it to help them perform further diagnostics if recent code deployments OR a loophole in the code is allowing serious griefing is occuring. So... I am not "VENTING" - I am trying to take the lead in coordinating the gathering of info from the community so that we can resolve whatever has been hitting the popular venues in SL. Whatever the cause, through this thread LL has a lot of information / leads to help them isolate and find root cause - something that cannot easily be done by independent isolated problem tickets into LL Support Desk who only looks at each incident as an isolated problem.

Followup.... on my statement that compensating customers to simply take the time to rate & review regardless of their rate or review being positive or negative..... Some merchants will disagree with me that its a form of bribing. First of all I would state that I am not against merchants compensating to encourage customers to rate/review... I am just saying that it clearly falls into an implied bribe. Why? Let me challenge any of you Merchants that do not think its a bribe.... Lets say you are offering a 100L gift certificate to customers everytime they file a rate & review on your MP store items that they bought. Now lets say that 2 months later you are noticing that 80% of the time when customers do take up your offer and they file a rating on your product - that its always a 1 - 2 - 3 rating. Or lets say most of them are leaving reviews that your product is OK or not that great or overpriced or service wasnt great or whatever.... Would you continue to "compensate" all your customers to file ratings and reviews? Hmmm - I dont know about you ... but I sure would be stopping the "compensating" practice. As such, you are only compensating in the expectation that for the most part you are going to get POSITIVE results. You are bribing - since you would likely stop compensating if all your efforts generate poor rates and reviews. That is my thought.

Pamela Galli wrote: Luna since it costs the buyer time to make a review, and is no benefit to himself but to the seller only, I think it is not only reasonable but preferable to offer to compensate him. I am a very big believer in compensating people for their time -- or at least offering to, and letting them make an offer to do it for free if they like. I strongly disapprove of asking ppl to donate their time or property for the sole purpose of benefitting the asker (as opposed to charity). That is called begging, and it goes on in SL too often. I do not see this as being as harsh and polarized as you are posting this. To me, if a customer is asked / reminded to post a review by a merchant - especially as part of the merchant issuing a post-purchase "customer satisfaction" communication then it is still up to the customer if he/she executes or not. You are confusing a Merchant simply mentioning a suggestion to rate and review vs the true definition of "begging". If a merchant contacts their customers and persistently pleads with customers to rate/review (i.e. with a tone of pleading or by followup contacts if the customer does execute) - this is begging and i would agree with you. But I see nothing wrong reminding a customer if they could if when they have a chance. Personally - I am not sure if SL Customers generally are influenced by the heavily gamed MP rating / review system but I have long given up trying to get my customers to go back and rate / review. I have found it a waste of time... its like urinating into the ocean on the impact it has. I get a lot of customers that contact me by IM telling me how much they love my products.... I used to say thank you and if you really do like what you bought - please go back and rate. But almost none do. So I stopped wasting my breath. Contrarily - if you are "compensating" a customer for making a review / rating... even if you dont tell them to rate favorably... it is still a form of subtle implied bribery. So as much as you might beleive asking without compensation is begging... most would say that asking with compensation is bribing. People can see this both ways Pam.

I am telling my Venue and Music Artist management friends to look for any details to the situation when it happens and to at minimum file a Security related JIRA and to point to this forum as a suspicion that its related.

Followup.... the one thing I have noticed in the 3 events I have witnessed, when the sim does not crash yet boots almost everyone off the sim... a few residents seem to survive for good or much longer than most. I have been lucky enough to be one of the few that are not booted out of SL immediately (the viewer says "quit" and you must close the viewer and restart it). In all three times there are about 3 to 6 Avatars remaining. Most of them I know and we were all talking about what is happening, but I recall there is one avatar each time that stands in the back and does not participate in the discussion. I would ask LL when they look at all the logs during the event to also look carefully at the avatars the survived the mass boot-out to see if there is a similar avatar and/or what the avvatars were wearing or what new objects showed up and who created it at the time of the event. I dont know root cause but I will be more diligent now to take careful note at who survives the boot out and record them - just in case it is a new form of griefer attack. I will tell the venue owner and artist management to also take careful notes. The more info - the better.

@Cincia, Please read my OP posting. I have gone and been a part of very heavily congested sim countless times as its a very common situation with many of the popular inworld musicans. During any given week I am at sims during live events where I see 30 40 60 and even over 80+ avatars. Trust me when I tell you that I know full well what a sim feels like when a sim is overloaded with avatars. I am not naive to think that sims with 40 or 50 avatars on it will cause lag on a sim. A month ago I was on a sim during a 2 hour 2 singer event where there was almost 100 avatars. I stood there and enjoyed the music coming from the sim's stream even though I was not able to basically move duing the entire 2 hour show. THAT IS NORMAL and everyone that attends events like this is fully expecting lag and just shrugs it off. BUT... we also know that normally - even though the lag grows in intensity with the increase in arriving avatars.... the sim does not crash or go "1/2 stale" and forces all the avatars to be booted out and then does not even allow them to tp back to the sim. And then - without any intervention from the sim owner - the sim goes back to normal. What ever is causing this - its not normal lag or activities caused simply because there are a lot of avatars on the sim. As I mention in following posts..... in all cases I have witnessed, the sim already had about 40 or 50 avatars on the club and there was no serious lag at all.... until all of a sudden a switch was pulled / trigger was hit and the sim went into DUMB mode. If there was a public jira for inworld residents / sim owners to share info I would have placed this data there. Thanks to Rodvik's policy to remove Resident JIRA, this is the only place to solicit resident sharing of larger problems. If the root cause is because of a recent LL server code issue then I am hoping that providing them as much detail as possible will help them identify the problem. If this is being cause by some new griefer generated script (or what ever) then providing LL this detail can hopefully point them to their internal logs that can isolate the method the attack is happening and even isolate the griefer who was either on the sim each time wearing the griefing script or placed the object on the sime that caused it. Through forensics - they could possible go after the griefer as well as shut down the weakness that he / she is using.

well then that explains why i have only had 1 sale of my big premium items in 3 days. sales have tanked these past 4 days to near zero.

OK LL - you got yourself a big problem somewhere in your Server Code..... It happened again at another major music event venue and exact same symptoms as the other music event.... DATE / TIME: Sep 29, 2012 @ 10pm SLT Location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Musicland%20Isle/117/99/24 Population at time of event: 40-55 avatars (sim can support 65 I was told) DETAILS: When they were switching Music Stream from the outgoing singer to the new singer (top of hour)..... The sim SLAMMED into LAG. And then - just like the other events about 5-9 minutes later almost all the avatars were booted off SL. When they all could eventually log in - no one could get back to the sim - it was blocking them. I arrived at the sim that BORKED about 30 minutes later and it let me onto the sim - only 2 ppl were there. So it seems like it ended up healing itself - unless the sim owner rebooted it. This is the 2nd time this major incident has happened to the same popular music artist in sl. Its affecting / disrupting a lot of major events. The Singer's management had to scramble a get everyone on to another sim and advertise for guests to come to the new sim.

I got an IM from Grafx Newbold tonight that the very popular INSPIRE SPACE Park on the Mainland SHINDA sim tonight seems to have had the same thing happen to it. I asked him to provide all the details but here is what he told me so far: Sim Location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Shinda/35/218/1560 Date: / Time : Sept 30, 2012 @ about 7:40pm SLT (time corrected from 8:40) I will quote what was posted by the person that told Grafx the details: anonymous resident: : if it's any consolation, SL in general is being a big **bleep** this evening [21:42] anonymous Resident: Tempura was impossible...changing clothes is asking for a quick logout and half my TPs are failin [21:43] anonymous Resident: I got that same 'capabilities not granted' message for other destinations as well Tempura and my outfits got sticky...so I left to try and force a change...and got logged out instead. Logged back to Smith and when I tried to TP out to Tempura I got the capabilities error. it was a series of crashes before I could get back to Tempura and then it was still bad enough to crash me again, which is unusual Since there was no owner available to restart the sim... the SHINDA sim was blocking ppl from tping into it. Then as we were IMing... just like the other problems i reported. At time of this reporting - the Mainland Sim was still locked. Since its mainland and satuday night - no one around to force a reboot of the sim. Sounds like Tempura has the same issues but i cant confirm that. Hope anyone else can report details as well.

Thanks Nalates.... I will add this Server detail to my events posting. Simon Linden is going to take a look at the logs for the date/time of these events for these two examples.

Here is all the details I have about two of the LAG event (the one on Tuesday and the one last night): EVENT #1 Lag trigger date/time: Date: Tuesday Sep 25, 2012 Time: 9pm SLT (almost to the minute as the new artist was taking over the stream from theprevious artist) Location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife//20/109/24 Location: "The Pier at Wild Beach - Live Music Venue" Description: There was about 40 ppl at the club / sim at the time the event triggered. It happened just as the stream was changed from the previous singer to the new singer. The artist did not even get on stage and the sim got hit with a massive server-side lag (not network - not client). All but have 7 avatars were kicked off the sim. I survived for about 15 minutes waiting for the audience / friends to return. None returned while the sim stayed up. Then the remainder of us were forcefully shut down. When we logged back in, we could get back to the sim and the audience eventually returned for only about 10-15 minutes of show. UPDATE: I talked to the event host that reported the problem to LL and LL responded to them that it was a "STALE SERVER".... what ever that means. User said she did a LIVE CHAT call to report it and she talked to REED LINDEN EVENT #2 Lag trigger date/time: Date: Thursday Sep 27, 2012 Time: 10pm SLT (almost to the minute as the new artist was taking over the stream from theprevious artist) Location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Purple%20Magic/21/21/26 Location: "Sherie's Gaslight" Description: There was roughly about 45 ppl on the sim/parcel of land at the time of the triggered massive server-side lag (it was not network or client when I looked). Within a few minutes only 4 of us were left on the sim. The sim did not crash as I was able to not crash during the event. BUT, I decided to log out gracefully and then relog and return. No one was ever able to return for the rest of the hour. I do not have enough details of the first recorded event on Tuesday (ie. where and exactly when) but I believe it was about 6pm slt and the crowd was a bit smaller than the two recorded above. I am hoping that LL has sim activity logs and can use the sim location and date/time to see if they saw ANYTHING in their logs for these sims at those times.

I can believe that a memory leak could be a potential cause to this problem seems like problem shows up immediately after reaching some threshold. Like I mention.i have not seen a sim instantly lag up solidly so fast. It spike a switch was turned on. This problem is a major world experience problem.

PS.... Attention to the Server User Group Linden staff : Simon, Andrew, Baker, Cheesey Hopefully you will read this thread prior to this afternoon's weekly Server User Group meeting so that I can just point to it and ask for your input / opinions on whats going on and if LL code upgrades could be causing these majore sim lag crashes.

I am writing this new thread here since creating a JIRA for public input and involvement is no longer possible AND because later today I will be bringing this serious issue up at the Weekly LL Server User Group meeting at 4pm slt. BACKGROUND: A major part of my nightly activity almost every night in SL is to attend several live music concerts / events / gigs at a wide variety of venues that host live events. I attend usually 2 to 4 live events a night. As such, I have very good experience on being on sims where I frequently see 30 - 50 - 70+ avatars on a sim to attend many of the more popular music artists in SL. I know what kind of lag to expect over the past years of attending these events. I also know what is normal verses very unusual regarding the kind and intensity of lag as well as sim crash frequency at events - which does happen but is usually quite uncommon to happen even when a sim is real full. THIS WEEK THINGS CHANGED: I dont know what changed and I am suspecting it was changes that LL has deployed in the server code but clearly something has changed that has caused a serious impact on a sim's ability to be stable during these larger events. On Tuesday night (Sep 25th) I attended 4 concerts that evening SLT time and all at different sims. At two of these event, one with about 25 avatars and one with about 45 avatars, I personally witness very unusual and severe situations that personally impacted the club owner and artists that were holding the events. What was more suspicious was that they both had very similar symptoms: At the 1st event with only about 25 avatars I arrived at the event almost at the beginning of the show. I TPed into the club with massive intense lag. I have been at events far larger with nothing near the lag i experienced at this event on the sim. No one at the event could move. When I looked at the lag meter it was ALL SERVER LAG as the Network and Client were both in GREEN. It appeared that the sim was completely hitting the wall. the stream was working still so the artists could be heard. And then about 10 minutes into all this lag, all the avatars started crashing out of the club. I was one of the last ones to survive without crashing. The musicians crashed even though the stream stayed up. Also, those that crashed took could not get back on for a few minutes and even when they got on, they could not return to the club/sim even though there was almost no one left and the lag subsided. After about another 10 minutes I crashed too and then after returning - people could all start coming back to the sim. It was like the entire sim had to be rid of all avatars before it could return to normal. Later that night I went to another very popular concert that was preceded by another popular artist. When I arrived at this sim, there already were about 40 ppl at the club listening to an artist. There was no significant lag at all. THEN... as soon as the stream was switched to the new artist's stream the sim instantly got HAMMERED by the exact same massive lag that I witnessed earlier at the first event. It hit like a light switch and just as the stream was switched. Within minutes, all but 4 of us (I was one of the few that survived the avatar crashes) were kicked out of SL. None of the 40+ avatars could log back into SL for several minutes.. and even when they got back on - none of them could TP back to the club even though they could TP to other sims. Then almost at the same time, the remaining 4 of us all crashed off the sim as well. We could get back pretty quick and we were all allowed to return to the sim after that - even those that crashed 20 minutes earlier. FAST FORWARD TO LAST NIGHT.... I went to another popular club sim that frequently host very large crowded events. I arrived to see a popular artist and there was already one on stage. The club was a bit laggy as would be expected with about 50 avatars on it... but normal. And then top of hour the club switched streams for the new artist start his show and BOOOM !! everything that happened on Tuesday night happened again. MASSIVE Server side lag instantly hit..... all but about 4 of us survived - I was one of them again. And no one that could relog back into sl could TP to the grid. Instead of waiting to crash, I logged out gently and re-logged back in... but for the remainder of the hour no one - including me - could return to the sim. Once again another major show was disrupted. I have also heard from another venue owner that they have noticed this severe increase in sim lag freeze / crashes recently. So I dont know if this is ever since PathFinder was deployed and that it got majorly worse after this Tuesday's code deployment.... but something severe has happened to the grid. If you are a club / venue owner of big events... have you recently seen similar types of lag and crashes? I will be asking the Lindens about this tonight.

I did the same thing as you Deja way back in 2009 when I actully cared and was concerned that customers were making buying decisions based on the number and quality (i.e. # of stars) that my listings had vs others. For about a month I contacted customers after the sale and thanked them for their purchase and told them if they have any concerns / questions to contact me. I then ended with a "If you have a moment and can take a few seconds to vote/review your purchase of my project, that would be appreciated". That strategy netted almost NO new reviews. Almost all customers "fire and forget". They cannot be bothered going back into MP and taking a few seconds to provide a fair assessed review. There are the rare few that will take the time "WITHOUT BEING BRIBED" to come back and review the product and their purchase. But as you have already confirmed.... almost none do. So.... as soon as I see ANY listing on MP with 100 or more (almost all 5 star) votes - there is only one conclusion.... the merchant GAMED THE LISTING. In fact, for me... I would stay away from listings with this high a number of reviews as the likelihood of it being game is excellent and if a listing has to be gamed by a Merchant... it says a lot about the product he /she is selling. Good products stand on their own.... bad products need this Customer Deception strategy to make sales.

I have been watching this thread pop up on my android for the past few days and stayed quiet - thinking the topic will go to sleep soon (as it has many times in the past). But it keeps going. I am surprised how long its been talked about here - the reason is because this issue i nthe MP merchant community has come up as a sore spot OVER and OVER and OVER. We all know that the MP listing reviews / votes are totally gamed by so many merchants. Its sickening to see over all these years how they have been. Merchants that pay for good reviews. Merchants that use alts to create tons of 5 STARS. Merchants and enemies of of other merchants that Grief competing listings.... We all know it exists. LL knows it has existed since reviews were put in as a feature. Example: I watch as my oldest and by far most popular selling sculpty landscape pack that has made me $1000's of US income over the past 3 years since I released it still only has 29 5 STAR reviews. the same pack that I get countless of compliments on over the years..... and I have only got 29 reviews. I have seen this same listing even receive a burst of 3 1-STARS in the matter of a week which could only have been gamed by someone with a grudge. And yet I see some competing merchants who have built up 100's of reviews for their product. I dont game my reviews and if someone wants to come back and post a review vote - great. But that has only happened naturally 29 times in 3 years.... yet other merchants can "naturally" and without gaming have customers post 100's of reviews? Sorry - its gamed. Yet, LL stands to its position and regardless of how many times Merchants have told them to REMOVE the review system that is clearly GAMED... they continue to allow SL MP Customers to be bamboozled and tricked into making buying decisions based on false / bought / gamed data. LL has no care that customers are allowed to be tricked based on a gamed feature they support. Every time this topic comes up - the answer is nearly uninimous that its unlikely to be fixed so REMOVE THE FEATURE!! Only allow customers to post COMMENT REVIEWS and also allow Merchants the ability to Post rebuttal postings when a customer makes a review claim that is unfair. But.... we all know that LL Commerce Team is not listening to us and will continue to NOT do anything about this sad situation. So unethical merchants will continue to game.... customers will continue to be fooled.... honest merchants will continue to **bleep** and complain how its not fair that corrupt merchant are allowed to game... and LL will ignore us all. Sooooo - when does this thread end until the next cycle?

This was released just 2 hours ago.... Reply to CommerceTeam Linden- view message 2 hours ago The transition from Magic Boxes to Direct Delivery has been extended indefinitely. We will be providing a 30-day warning before any shutdown actions are taken and will avoid doing this before peak holidays for the Marketplace (Halloween, Christmas/New Year's, Valentine's Day). We are aware that some Merchants are still having problems with the Merchant Outbox. We are are working with TPVs and our internal development teams to address this issue. The MB deadline has now been put off indefinitely.

Deja Letov wrote: Toy is Inwordlz the only other grid you are on currently? Wish I had a short answer but you know me. Generally speaking.... YES IW is the only other grid outside SL that I maintain an actual permanent store. Its the largest & most established grid outside of SL and the one that the largest % of SL residents head for to build a new life if they leave or expand outside of SL. It has also been the #1 grid that most of my SL customers have asked me if I sold my products there for them to buy. And if the demise of the current population of SL is predicted to quicken over the next 12 months as Rodvik transforms SL into a Gamers Platform, I would strongly predict that IW will be where most SL residents will move to as the new leader of the virtual worlds. So I wanted to be well set up there to capture the growth and building phase of the grid (since I sell sim landscape sculpty terrains). It is also a grid that has a proven cashout of their currency to US $ That being said, I have serviced a few other customer requests for my terrain packs to be used in other private and more isolated grids. I do it in a couple ways... 1) I have set up an account on the grid and imported my sculpty maps and packs onto that user account and then execute a direct handover of the packs to the customer there but ask them to pay me in $Linden currency. The reason I execute the sale in SL is because some of these other grids have an unknown means of me cashing out the local/private currency to RL $US currency. 2) If I feel comfortable enough to trust the customer and they write me a notecard of their exact requirements and limits to how they plan to use the packs on that grid, I will execute the transaction to sell it in $Linden currency and then give them a specific one time exemption to my license that allows them to export my sculpty maps off the SL grid to their target grid. For the most part, I will trust the customer if they are a current/past customer of my products in SL. If they bought my products in SL then its powerful evidence for me to say they are honest and could be trusted to execute the transaction within the stated license and exceptions we agreed to, So that how Toy Rolls on that front.

Tonya Souther wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you mean by setting the texture surface of the sculpty to 4:4. Do you mean to set it to 4 repeats vertical and horizontal on that face? Or do you mean you have an animation that's a matrix of 4x4 cels? What's the call to llSetTextureAnim() you use in that temporary script? In any case, I think it's happening because the animation definition inside the viewer for that prim is reset when you get back in view of it, and the object update from the sim to the viewer sends the parms again - and overwrites the correct ones wiht repeats of 1 in both directions. I mean horizontal:vertical repeat. That is the critical aspect that is bugged. My use of llSetTextureAnim never involves cells. Its all about the more simple model that Qie mentioned. Here is the exact little script I use and provide to my waterfall/river sculpty customers.... float waterspeed = 0.02; default { state_entry() { llSetTextureAnim(ANIM_ON|LOOP|SMOOTH, ALL_SIDES, 0, 0, 0, 0, waterspeed); } }

Yes Tonya - what Qie said. Your description of the issue was very insightful. I didnt know there were limits to the animation of a prim. But you had my head spinning on the description of the animating of a Cylender. For many of us that have complained about this bug over the years, the bug is more simple. So can you explain to me the root cause behind what I was seeing - as well as many others.... - I rez a SCULPTY prim. It had 1 texture surface. (a waterfall shape) and its a tall sculpty - I apply a seamless water texture (512x512) - I set the single texture surface of the sculpty to 4:4 - I insert the script with the llSetTextureAnim to simply smooth loop the texture so it slides across the surface - I remove the script from the sculpty - I stand there and watch the waterfall flowing well at the 4:4 repeat pattern and my viewer has no problem seeing it at the set 4:4 FASTFORWARD: - I leave the area where the waterfall can be seen by my viewer (leave sim or even just far enough away that its outside of my viewer's ability to see the waterfall). - I come back and the waterfall returned back to the 1:1 repeat - still animated but looks terrible as it returned to the original repeat default. How is the bug you are talking about causing this to happen?

I registered and looked around Avination but decided after a period where there was some question about it being a good place to safely be a Merchant on the grid to back away. Never went back since nor has any of my customers asked me to sell my sculpted terrains there. I have had the occassional requests over the years to sell my sculpty packs in other grids like OSgrid and some private grids but didnt feel it was worth the effort to set up a presence to sell. My policy is that I basically dont sell my content on a grid unless I have a presence on the grid. I had a lot of requests from customers to bring my content to IW and almost 2 years ago I executed on that demand. I set up a SMALL store that allows my customers to buy my content on that grid as well as new customers on that grid. Unlike Cyo, I do not allow my sculpty license to extend outside of the grid that the pack was purchased - for a few reasons. And I have not had one complaint from any customer that it was not a fair policy. They have bought the content at IW even though they bought it in SL. Obviously IW's population is dwarfed by SL evn though it continues to grow, but after I set up my store and products on IW the care and feeding of the store is like an hour a month (or less). I dont make a killing on IW (about $250US / year) but considering the effort to maintain it and that I have responded to many customers that wanted my products in IW, any profits from IW is great.

Hi Tonya! Its great news that this bug will finally be permanently fixed. A couple years ago some creator (I dont even recall the name of the creator) gave me a script that actually fixed this bug as long as the script was applied. It was no mod so I dont know how he fixed it. But its nice that this bug will be fixed without the need for a script. I am a bit confused about the question as well after I read it. Each surface of a prim / sculpt / mesh should be able to have its own unique repeat pattern. For example can surface one have a 4:8 and two a 2:2 and three a 1:1? If so, the llSetTextureAnim should not break the repeat values no matter if it was set before or after the scripted command executed the animation. What I am further confused on is what is ACTUALLY the bug? I sell sculpted waterfall shapes with seamless water textures that flow down the surface of the sculpt. To reduce load on the sim, after I load the texture animation script that sets the speed and direction at which the texture moves, I remove the script. The movement of the texture becomes a permanent attribute of the prim/sculpt. And all works well with the set repeats. Then for whatever reason the prim reverts back to the 1:1 ratio. So is it really a bug of the script or a bug within the code of the prim?

As Darrius was pointing out... I cant recall in any commerce threads that I have been involved in nor my own long history of doomsday speaking that a specific date was ever mentioned.... until Darrius's last posting But when many of us have been "chicken Littling" over the years, we were not wrong. If you look around, the sky has been falling - but as is the case with most business evolutions / devolutions... things do not happen overnight. I am going to speak for myself. Since early 2009 when I started to post in the merchant forums of Secondlife, I can safely point a finger at myself as being one of the biggest chicken littles you are referring to. In fact, you can ask Dartagan himself to confirm that I was one of the chief "nay sayers" since 2009. We were pretty much the Generals on either side of the debate about LL's business model and the health of its future. I was the King of the Commerce Thread trolls and he was the King of the Merchant cheerleaders. The debates were pretty heated at the times and the Lindens never liked me because of my harsh negative opinions. But the reason I was a Chicken Little since 2009 was because I already saw clear signs that there were several fundamental business evolution flaws showing with LL. When I was predicting LL's ultimate demise in 2009, it was because LL's business organization and corporate culture was refusing to shift from its early "Initiation & Contageon" business evolution stage to the more mature "Control" stage. Forget about LL as a company, several businesses that cannot successfully evolve to the CONTROL stage often end up dying on the vine or get acquired by stronger business that are being vultures. I wont go into all the signs I was seeing then and continue to see now, but I will say that Sr Management immaturity and LL's unbreakable startup ego culture and "we are successful so why should the business model change" entrenchment were and are primary factors. That being said Deja, I do not believe I was not wrong about LL's sky falling. Look all around you in the SL / LL environment and compare it to how SL was in 2008. The sky has been has been falling and the fall is picking up speed. In June 2010 LL's laid off 1/3 of its staff. This was the one major event that finally made Dartagan come to my "dark side" and drop his pom poms Last year 1800 sims were abandoned. In the past 2 months ~ 800 sims were abandoned. The deflation of the SL pricing and economy has already significantly collapsed. Sales for may merchants are degrading. Large numbers of SL residents have been migrating to more competitive priced grids or left SL all together. As Darrius, myself and others have mentioned... Rodvik has started executing a "close all communications with the customers" policy - Gagging Jiras is a screaming example of Rod's policy LL has been pulling out of any active participation of inworld activities (like its own 8th birthday) Rod is desperately seeking out an entirely new poor-fit customer base (the "Gamer") for SL to tap into while at the same time pretty much sticking his middle finger at the current existing customer base. This is a "Last Gasp" move which if it fails - which many of us are convinced it will - he will have destroyed the loyal customer base and not secured the new customer base. As such I can see September 2013 as being a potential demise of SL as we know it. The thing is that in the business world when a very successful upset fails to continue growing and begins its process of imploding, it doesnt happen in a few months. It can take years before the ultimate demise - whatever that looks like - will occur. So.... the Sky has been and is falling.... the debris just hasnt reached the ground just yet. STAY TUNED !