Dillon Levenque
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Posts posted by Dillon Levenque
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Darrius Gothly wrote:Rand Linden wrote:Anyone up to the challenge, or know theslog.whiz-kids.de folks?
Rand,I finished the first revision of the Chat Log Wikify tool then updated the transcript from the most recent CTUG Meeting. Please have a look and let me know what you think.Darrius
Would it be appropriate to continue the discussion Deltango started regarding inworld vs. fora 'meetings'? Or should that be a new topic?
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Qie Niangao wrote:As a service provider, LL is somewhere between AT&T and the guy who cleans your pool.
I had been thinking about my earlier comments and this one of yours speaks to that in a way. Especially the pool cleaning part.
Were Lab/Resident meetings conducted as business meetings, there would be little chat. Lindens would be in charge, residents would speak when appropriate. It would be no different than, say, a typical webinar session (and imagine one of those in which every single participant spent a third of the time talking to other participants). But Lindens, even though this is their playground, aren't really 'in charge' in the sense I used. They actually are working for us. So even in a meeting that is all about requests from residents for action by LL, hosted by LL, they are in the awkward position of having to tolerate a lot of interruptions and derailments. The end result is rather chaotic.
I still think Deltango's approach would be superior. Slower, yes, but I think it would have a much higher signal to noise ratio.
And imagine if you owned a business with customers who woke up in the morning thinking of ways your business could be even better. There may not be as many of us as LL would wish, but boy do we like their product.
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Cali Souther wrote:
My least favorite after A/S/L is..... "So what are you wearing?"Ahh, Cali. That one was useful, back in the pre 'Do Not Call' days. It was my favorite response to female telemarketers.
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I am pretty sure that subject came up in the last meeting; it may not have been on the agenda but I'm pretty sure someone asked for the feature. Can't even call it a feature, really: it's something that would be reasonably expected, don't you think?
ETA: I recalled it incorrectly (that almost never happens). Was in the meeting on 3/31 and the question had to do with sort by most recent post not being the default setting in Preferences. I know I've seen requests and/or comments that the first thing you see on getting here is the most recent posts, though.
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Deltango Vale wrote:Why go through all this trouble? Okay - deep breath - let me try this again, from the beginning, step by step.The purpose of usergroups (inworld or fora-based) is to:
- facilitate communication between resident experts and Linden Lab employees
- enable realtime communication
There are two media suitable for usergroups:- inworld meetings
- special sub-fora with regular, 'live attendance' timeslots
How would fora-based usergroups be set up?- create a new forum called User Groups (Second Life, Content Creation, Technology, Commerce, Buy and Sell Land, International, User Groups)
- create 11 sub-fora within the User Group forum (Scripting, Mesh, my.secondlife.com, Simulator, V2, Viewer Evolution, Marketplace, Community Translation, Community Tools, Events, Server Beta)
- only LL employees can create threads in the User Group sub-fora
- each User Group sub-forum has a top-level thread called Agenda
- Linden employees would create threads for agenda items (which would persist)
How would these sub-fora usergroups work?- members and employees could post in the usergroup threads at any time, 24/7
- employees would have a 'live attendance' schedule when they would participate in realtime
Advantages of fora-based meetings:- the location of the User Group forum is fixed and obvious to everyone
- members could contribute at any time (bypassing RL constraints)
- members and employees could read posts, think and prepare for 'live attendance' slots
- realtime communication (text, image, video)
- contributions persist and can be added to even if a 'live attendance' slot is canceled
- business is conducted in non-competitive posts
- employees can post on an ad-hoc basis if they wish (outside of 'live attendance' times)
- no need for transcription
- no need to log inworld
Disadvantages of fora-based meetings:- no visible avatar
- less fun
Advantages of inworld meetings:- avatar-to-avatar visual symbol exchange
- realtime communication (open chat, IM, notecard)
- more fun
Disadvantages of inworld meetings:- participants must search for date, time and location of meetings
- participants must be available at time of meetings (RL schedule, timezone differences)
- meetings are very limited in terms of time
- no business can be accomplished outside of alloted time
- meetings may be canceled, resulting in zero productivity
- business is conducted mainly in competitive, open chat
- time wasted in non-business banter
- chat history must be transcribed (including non-business banter)
- lag and crashes
So, if the goal is to meet up for a bit of fun chitchat, then inworlds meetings are definitely better. If the goal is to actually accomplish something, then let's set up the Use Group forum.
Really, Deltango. If you'd just take a second to organize your thoughts before just blurting stuff out like this....
I would like to comment. Not from a participatory point of view (as I'm clearly not qualified) but as an informed observer. I'm impressed with Darrius' argument regarding the 'face to face' aspect of the inworld meetings (and I also thank you for the transcript and the Linden highlight was a great benefit) and if they really were face to face—that is, spoken—they would probably be an improvement over what Deltango suggests. In a true face to face there is a fast exchange of ideas, and sometimes an ability to exert influence that can't really be matched in print. But in a real meeting, there's very little 'aside'. In the two transcripts I've read the usual chat asides that are part of SL are everywhere. It makes following the thread of the conversation almost impossible.
I realize it's worse seeing it in print, but it would have been almost as bad live. Nobody has meetings like that in RL, at least nobody that gets anything done. Given that the actual ambience of a face to face meeting can't really be captured in SL (even with Voice, in my opinion) it would seem to me that Deltango's suggestion is a superior method on that basis alone, to say nothing of making things more accessible to those who cannot meet the Inworld schedule.
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As do many who've posted, I like the fact there is almost no limit on creativity. I've nothing against themed regions and I spend plenty of time in them, but I am happy to live on the mainland. Yes, I have some issues with some of the things that get built close by, but I knew it would be like that. I like that there are no zoning laws. No Neighborhood Councils. No real rules. It's true my house is completely conventional, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy seeing what others come up with.
I like surprises. Mainland is fun.
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Great idea, Hippie. And how nice to see the picture on the Forum again :smileyvery-happy:
I'll be joining soon. Peace.
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Marianne McCann wrote:I dunno. I mean ti is "tethered" in so far as there's a prim connecting it to the build... and it's not really a microparcel or anything like that... I dunno. I don't think it's "enough." But that's just me.
Well, actually the tether is an 8m object attached to my spine. I couldn't rez on the land so I had to bring my own yardstick. The objects are all set so that I can't read the dimensions using the Edit feature; I assume there's a way around that but I've never had a reason to learn it.
In any case it's a bit lower than I thought and even though it's free-floating and not on a pole as I'd remembered, it's probably borderline. I'll continue to live with it, I guess. From what I've seen in this thread it could be a heck of a lot worse.
Thanks for the advice, all of you.
ETA this from Qie:
On the other hand, the FAQ explicitly excludes from the policy signs above stores, so that may not be good news for Dillon's case, unfortunately.
I'd say that answers that. It's clearly above a store, and advertising same. To little purpose since as I said the place gets virtually no visitors. (No virtual visitors?). Anyway, I'll leave it alone.
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Marianne McCann wrote:I think it covers that at:
Thanks, Marianne. Clearly my 'neighbor' is neither an adfarm or anyone trying to sell land, but it seems the sign violates this section:
In addition, advertisements must comply with these requirements:
- They must be grounded to the terrain, not floating.
- They must extend no higher than 8 m from the ground.
I went over there tonight and took a pic, I know it looks dumb because I don't have the smarts to do it any other way but that beam I'm next to is 8m long—I brought that with me as an attachment; the sign is free-floating. Wasn't sure if the rule was in reference to the top or the bottom but it looks to me as if even the bottom of the sign is out of bounds.
Before I file an AR, something I've not done, I just wanted to take advantage of the brains in this thread and ask if it really does look to be against the rules.
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squashy Beeswing wrote:But to me ... calling them the same is tantamount to calling a Porsche and a Garbage Truck the same because they both have wheels.I like your comparison. It works for me. :smileywink:
I like it too. Reminds me of a similar comparison made here by Deltango Vale:http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Community-Feedback/A-request-for-solutions-to-the-resident-names-problem/m-p/748847#M1699 who has commented here at length on this very subject (although this particular thread was about something else).
Yes, Second Life is a social network. No, it is not comparable to Facebook. I do see some friends who use Twitter to communicate with their SL friends and I guess that's okay, but I'd rather be inworld talking than texting with Twitter.
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Wow, I need to read this section more often. I just learned something in the 'thread below' that you mentioned, but this one is even more interesting. I wonder if you could define 'giant'. There's a store right next door; was there when I moved in. Everything else on the sim has changed and most of it is now owned by a single group. The store has a very tall rotating sign; at least 20m high. I've got trees and stuff in line with all the windows just to try to block it from view but it's still impossible not to see it. There's only one signboard, mounted on a tall pole.
The owner of the group has tried many times to buy the property but has never gotten a reply. The place generates close to zero traffic; I haven't seen anyone in the store in over a year. We've given up. But if I can AR it (or maybe a better idea would be a screenshot in this thread) I'd be thrilled.
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Hmm. I didn't know what this topic was about, but I'm glad I read through it. I was out for a walk around the neighborhood last night just to see what's new. I noticed an empty 512 near my lot, deeply recessed and with banlines.
I have never seen banlines on the sim ever; the same company owns almost all of it and the CEO is a very nice guy, careful of the interests of his tenants and neighbors (my little parcel is practically the only piece of the sim he doesn't own).
I did check to see who owned it but now I can't recall if it was the Land Group or a private owner. I'll check next time I'm inworld. I'd be surprised at private ownership; the group is more a land lease operation. If the group still owns it no big deal, just somebody with a strong sense of privacy. But if by chance it's privately owned I'll have to keep an eye on it.
Thanks for the history lesson in any case.
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Thanks, Dee! I figured someone would have been thinking (I count on others for that function; I just react).
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Lia Abbot wrote:I know of a lady wholaunches. Would she qualify?
Absolutely she would, long as she didn't get all testy if we forget the 'Your Majesty' bit now and then. And I too am pleased to see you here. I'd forgotten you were moving (or 'moving house', as you lot* say) just as the old forum closed. I mentioned you in a thread about signatures; you make three that I know of whose sigs were all or partly derived from something we heard from Maddy:smileyhappy:
*UK colloquialism 'you lot' courtesy of a convo with Mags the other day
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Cali Souther wrote:Did the op ever come back to see all of our wonderful suggestions? :-)If not, no worries, I went thru this thread over the weekend and went shopping!!! I really love threads like this, because it's so much easier to find things with good search terms!So, thanks! - even tho, it wasn't my question.
I agree; I just went through and looked at all the names myself. I've been in the same skin for a year and a half at least. At the time I just waited until someone who's avatar I really admired bought a new skin and then pestered her relentlessly until she told me where she got it (Cupcake). Maybe now that I've been around more I should go demo shopping.
I add my thanks to the contributors.
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Sion Pearl wrote:I had never heard of Starcraft, so I Googled her. I was a bit thrown that a character who looked like she should be called Hasturra The Nasty But Sexy, Queen of the Gribbly Things, was actually called Sarah.
'Sarah' is just her display name. Her real name is as you suggested, I believe.
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Edfred Jungsten wrote:With the basic viewer now being implemented, computer literacy seems like it isn't a requirement anymore. And yes I am talking abut Linden Public Lands specifically. That is where new residents spend their first initial experience in Second Life, where they orientate themselves to the world, where they make their first attempts at making friends, and where they spend time discovering their first purcheses / freebies. The public land experience is the gateway to whether Second Life is a win or a fail in ther minds.
I see your point, but I'm still not sure that SL has to win or fail right there. When I arrived the only public land I knew about was Help Island, where my avatar rezzed (I gather it's different now). I spent a few hours at most looking there, going back to the internet to read tutorials, and getting at least a bit familiar. But as soon as I could I TP'd to the mainland and never looked back (as I recall there was a kind of test tp set up that you had to use before you could get off the island).
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I guess it wasn't an official 'SLadies' function but it was fun seeing a lot of you at Gypsy's gig last night. I hope someone got a picture of Lillie in her Maid du Jour outfit.:smileyhappy:
I need to remember to stop pervcamming and start actually taking snapshots, especially when Quinn's not there.
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Marigold Devin wrote:It doesn't really matter that SL will never be "conventionally accepted", for it is not a conventional gaming platform, and I strongly suspect that one of the main reasons for new people not returning after their first experience in SL is more to do with the fact they don't know what they are meant to be doing, and think there should be an aim, or clear instructions of what to do next. Its not a matter of being "tough", more a matter of having an imagination, and an open mind.
Well, that is certainly true. Never thought of it that way but then I continually run across things I never thought of. To be able to have any kind of involved connection with SL requires at the very least something exceeding 'computer literacy'; many PC games do not. It also means spending a lot of time reading tutorials and blogs (when you'd much rather be doing things inworld) just to learn the most basic things. That sort of thing will never be conventional. Those who stay do so because of the very close to limitless possibilities. When you 'level up' here, only you and your friends are even aware that you've evolved (and that is a more accurate term for the process). In that respect it is more like the real world than any 'game' ever made.
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Darrius Gothly wrote:I was even thinking it could become a Community Project by allowing others to come in and design rooms of their own. That would open it up to many different visions, styles and experiences too.It'll take some more thinking and planning, but off-hand I don't see any reason why it couldn't show up someday soon.
I want an LM just as soon as it's done!
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Quinn Morani wrote:Dillon Levenque wrote:Same place Keli visits, oddly enough--was that a hoot last night or what?
Ahem. *stern voice* Where is your em dash????Oops. All better now.
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Thanks Peewee, that practically had me in tears. Awesome.:smileyvery-happy:
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Rats, now I won't be surprised when I log in! By the way in her discussion about it Jessica refers to other internet April Fools jokes including Google. That's my home page and I hadn't even looked! Check it out if you haven't already; the images are really funny.
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I know exactly what Quinn means. I imagine it must be a very typical story, at least for those of us who enjoy the social aspects of SL. My early solo explorations were of a slightly different nature than Quinn's, I believe, *cough* in that they did not really stay solo. They lacked much in the way of meaningful social interaction, so in that respect they were similar.
I think my approach is similar to Keli's. I also have a close friend who DJ's. In my case it's Wednesday and Saturday nights, but it's a given I'll be there if I'm able to be inworld. Lately my Thursdays have been scheduled as well. Same place Keli visits, oddly enough—was that a hoot last night or what?. I'm still not quite used to getting multiple IM's and anyone who communicates with me has seen the result: dead air until I finally notice I got a message.
I don't really know how I'll keep it all together. It's nice to have so many things to do, but it was nice to wander and wonder as well. Part of that memory is just nostalgia for the days of noob when almost everything I saw here amazed and amused me. That can't really be recreated. Perhaps the amazement and amusement of knowing my friends is just another variation on that experience. They are an amazing, amusing bunch.:smileyhappy:
ETA: a proper em dash in place of the original --
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How has your SL experience changed over time, and has it impacted how you interact with friends?
in Make Friends
Posted
Bitsy, there are ways to have friends that aren't 'sided' at all. The SLadies Who Lunch (featured in this very subforum) are an example of that. Most of the ladies know each other, some are in each others friend's lists, some might even be very close friends. But really the group is just a bunch of people who have a good time together.
I have several friends who are DJ's and that schedules a lot of my time: going to their gigs. I am in some groups that tend to have a lot going on (as noted above). That's why my SL is busy. My time is limited and there are frequently more things to do than hours in which to do them. Quinn is clearly in the same situation.
One more thing: it takes me a really really long time to get dressed if I'm trying anything new. I've seen your looks; maybe part of the difference in our 'free time' is that you just have a much better idea of what to wear and how to wear it.