Zag Magic

Waves Lilly with all your success, why do you sound so bitter ? Maybe you should spend more time dancing in SL, and not think about the money so much. The main reason most of my SL friends haven't been cashing out all along, was the taxes are just too high. Makes it all not worth it. Albeit we are in the EU, where we have VAT ( Value Added Tax ), attached to our pay info, and the banks are very keen on all this. Taxes on our SL earnings aren't new for us. Depends also what country you're in, some pay more than others. I believe Denmark and Sweden want the most. Your assumption that people don't need the money is wrong. Why do you want to divide people? To think we're all not kind hearted good honest people is ridiculous. No one I know came here for the "fame and glory" or the "feel good factor", that is just sad. When we started SL as free players, we were helped along by mentors. People shared what they made with the community. We remade, and rebuilt things. This is how I was taught to make things in SL. Free scripts, free effects, free prims. Still I needed upload money. The way I understood all this was that SL is made up of mostly open source code, much like the internet. It would be hard to do anything without those who offered for free to everyone what they have made. Many of my friends have created the greatest best things in SL, and have never asked for any money. Its all free, and with full permissions to this day. Free isn't always the best, so to charge much more hopefully you get new things with better quality, service, upgrades and the like. Just like in everyday real world life, some people have no income. SL is free to join, and you get free avatars to start, maybe a few free things along the way. No damage done, might even make people want better expensive new things. Obviously this is a real life business for you, how you pay for your housing and food. If the marketplace changed like it has for many of us, would you still come, play, dance and be part of the community ? Would it still be worth it to you ? Your comment, "Without the economy, SL would not be here. Fact". No, without the economy "you" would not be here. Or so it seems. Thieves and stolen software aside, your last words should have been your first. "The most creative people are those that don't have the NEED to sell what they create.. As soon as there is an obligation to create or a pressure to produce for an income, all those creative juices start to dry up. The most beautiful art has come from those that were poor and did it for the sake of art." There need be only one company making money from second life, and so far they have kept us floating.

Waves Sorry to hear all this, cashing out is a game changer. It was for me, so it is sad to see this all over again. The effects are things you may not expect. I understand Lilly that you really want to see the good of all this, we all want the good. Many people just aren't able to provide the needed documents. Many may just not want to. Each person being different, probably each with there own reasons. Others will breeze through it all and keep making things. Our community, the SL we all know from 2006 or before and since, we know how things have come along, we haven't forgotten. We came here to build the world all new, and it was fun. After a while we got so good, we started making some real money. Just from our time spent in world, sharing ideas. Few took selling and marketing as serious as it is now. This is yet another move that will narrow the field. Less creators cashing out, so more money will stay in world, as mine has. I have become something no one should ever want to be, a Lindenaire$. For me, its all play money now.

hi Xavi I am also looking at ways to cash out my existing linden$, but so far haven't found a way. I was to wonder, and this is for the community at large here in SL, what if cash outs were to end, if all were facing the same as some of us are now experiencing. When the cashing out ends, what will happen ? Will you continue to create and add things to the market ? Will you buy new things for your in world shop ? Would it be ok to just have some fun and build your things so LL can make money off the percentage of sells on the maretplace. The people who will join all new and shiny will never have known what has happened and buy thier Linden$ and things will continue as if no one, but a few, had been upset by this TOS change. Maybe all creator / sellers are a minority in SL and who cares if such a small number of people are upset or disappointed ? I am interested in what others would do, as I am looking for ways to continue here, not trying to be harsh, my in world friends want me to continue. I must now downsize and restart into some new way of looking at all this. Plus if anyone knows how to cash out through bank transfers ( no CC No Paypal ), let us know ok. Thanks.

Hello Melita What now you ask. Normally I stay very far away from the forums, but of late I have been reading here and on SLU, and a few blogs to try and get a grip on what I should do. I am in the EU and seems we all have different ways of how to do things, from person to person, country to country, all is very different, even in same country there are different states, we have different laws and things, much like the USA. So is hard to say something, when right behind you another person says this isnt so. Though for me I cannot use the Lindex, nor my credit card, not PayPal, or nothing like this. I have always used the Eldex, and for whatever reason, my bank accepted and agreed this was the way to go. Maybe as they are German, and work the same as my bank ( bank transfers ), they understood each other. No problems ever, all was fine. To use a CC or PayPal involves many steps, different charges, conversions of money, with charges also.. and on and on, and must do this each month I believe. Very different than the five or ten minutes on the internet that it took just last week. For me ( my avatar in SL isnt Zag, and I have been in SL since 06 ) ... for me this is a game changer. I haven't made anything more, nor do I plan to. No more mesh for me. My land will go as my tier won't get payed. I am just letting it go. This day I have been clearing things in preparations for this. The lack of responce from LL leads me to think its the right thing to do. In a way, I must thank LL. For I would have continued to work and build and spend, even though people constantly say to me that my work here is so good, yet I get next to no pay. But I had this dream, as we do in here, this wonderful sharing community feeling, like we made something, and we have. Second Life is for me, is like an experience with the USA, most here are from the USA, and so it has this feel. So the way LL does things, I think it must be the USA way. Whether this is correct or not, it is my feeling. It is possible most people are used to this manor of treatment and if things still work for them, all is fine, even while thier neighbors are in turmoil. This is the sad part, for if they close down on so many of us, don't you think they will on you as well. When LL bought Xstreet, it was hard to relist then, as you could just feel the changes and knew things wouldn't get back to as good as before, and they haven't. When mesh finally got on the market, something was different also, as a few sellers-creators had changed the way it was done, writing thier own TOS and offering full perm mesh complete ready to sell... but with such restirictions, and I thought it odd, I asked them straight out then if they worked for LL and should I even continue ? As it seemed that soon the market would be a closed system. This was just my feeling, and I still think this way. Cashing out altogether may end soon, for everyone, as the game has changed. So for all who are not affected by the TOS changes, or think they are not, or don't see it this way, that's alright by me. For me, is time to stop working for SL-LL and start on a new path; one clear, one I know the ways of, no surprizes, no tricks, no sudden pulling of the plug, my way is forward, and my experience in both worlds is ripe. Be well, and make your own choices, before others make them for you. Ciao/Waves

Hello Rommanno I also have used a 3rd party exchange, and don't use PayPal for the same reasons as you have said here. It is painfully obvious that those with the loudest voices haven't clue as to what we do to try and get things done. As if we are stupid and don't know what works for us. The way USA works is very different than the way EU works, this is very evident in the mis-understandings presented here in this thread. My bank advised me not to connect my credit card to PayPal for any reason, I do have a Paypal account, but it is a complicated process to use, filling out forms at the bank, and having them approved. My bank also advised me against listing my credit with Linden Labs. When i first did this on the internet they suspended my credit card and called me. I had to go to the bank and explain, and have them relist my credit card. It seems any dealing with the USA is taken as a red flag by my bank. While this may seem tivial to many on this forum, it is the way of things. Also is why we, and out banks, trusted the 3rd party exchanges ( as you call them ). I called them Virtual Banks, as mine even had a real life office in a nearby town. They knew/know how to deal with bank transactions/transfers, as we all do here. I know this is not the way of other places. And yes, some forgo the advice of thier banks and use credit cards as they wish, I will not. Fraud, thieft, and deception are not something i wish to experience. Please dear forum people, if someone says it doesnt work where they are... believe it. Just becasue you read it on the internet doesn't make it so. Maybe its something you must experience rather than out-sourcing your brain to google. I will also close my business and stop paying my teir, wishes for all a well and peaceful ride, Ciao.