[Back to Basics Technology Improvements]

Sounds good!

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@Melita again - vertex is just a corner. Connect two vertexes to make an edge.  Several edges make a polygon.  A bunch of polygons make a mesh.  Look at the default SL cube.  It has 8 vertexes, 12 edges, 6 polygons (squares), and one mesh (the cube).  Each vertex has a position in XYZ, just like SL prims as a whole have positions in a region.  Change the XYZ values for a vertex, and you change the shape of the mesh.  It's not as daunting as you might think, because everyone in SL who builds already uses a 3D editor, just a very simple one.

 

You know I actually think I understood that. Lol. You are a good teacher. Hope you will do some classes in SL in the future.

I don't know what that thing is you recommended Mac users install to use Blue Mars but I'm not sure what it would do to the system or if it's worth it just to try a game I might not even like. It's too bad they didn't get funding if that was their problem. But then developers all say that. Isn't it just about hiring one person who can code for Mac?

What is an AMD Fusion Render server and what about people who aren't on AMD driven machines?

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Thanks Daniel.

I've tried SketchUp before and it seems pretty basic...I want to, in the end, make things similar to the avatars and clothes and such that are currently on Renderosity. But, I don't have any idea how long it might take to get to that level of skill (anyone know?)

I meant people who will be in SL to help people learn and continue learning mesh creation on an ongoing basis but thank you for your post and for your IM offer.

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As far as mesh making being mathematical I find it very visual actually..its almost like drawing to me.

 

Really? That's promising. I draw.

I dug out an old laptop and installed Sculptris, which was fun but is only available for PC. (My desktop = Mac. Why do developers exclude Mac? *whine* ) Anyway it was fun, but I need to spend more time with it because right now I can only make alien bug face heads. Lol.

It's good to know there are groups for those of us who don't even know what we don't know.

Thanks.

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This is something that I noticed again and again during the debate: People either ignore the facts or misrepresent them.

 

I'll be kinder in reply to your post than you were in reply to mine. I'll say you misunderstood my meaning rather than ignored or misrepresented (i.e. LIED about) it.

I'm not sure what facts I might be ignoring. I'm willing to admit there are probably a lot of "Facts" regarding mesh that I'm not privy to. I do not intentionally lie about anything.

My post was in reply to someone who said that no one should have a problem learning this new skill and gave as an example, brain surgery. My post was also in part, a joke. A quip. Oh well.

I'm sure I didn't say most of the rest of your post, though I did say, and still do, that there is an obvious advantage the careerists will have over the hobbyist. That's always been so. It will be more so, with something this complex. I have also said that I vote yes for progress, and that it's inevitable. But I don't blame you if you have not read every one of the 900 or more posts in the blog comments here. (Not all 900 are mine, however.)

I'm not standing in anyone's way. I think it would be nice if there were a rudimentary version available so that hobbyists can also continue to build and not look as outdated as 8 bit. I don't know why that notion would panic anyone. The mesh makers will still clean up. Provided there's anyone left in SL to buy their wares...But I kid.

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Does anyone know one or a few good mesh support groups in Second Life?  For ongoing questions and such.

I really wish I had a tutor over my shoulder but maybe that would be the next best thing.

I will give learning mesh a try but I am not a very linear thinker, and learning mesh strikes me as very mathematical.

It is exactly like learning a totally unfamiliar new language for some of us. Math is a language. All the words that go with these new skills are a language of their own as well. I'm saying that in reply to those who keep saying "oh just learn it you whiners and shut up." It isn't being heard that not everyone can. A handful of success stories (who probably had friends who helped when needed, at the very least) does not mean everyone can do it.

I'll try, though, I just wonder how many will put their bragging where their charity is and help others along the way?

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I dont know how to do brain surgery  ..  does that mean the local hospital should let brain patients die because i dont know how to do it.  I should hope not..  you either have the skill ....  or you learn the skill,

 

Not for nothing but, should a game, a hobby, really be as hard as brain surgery?

I just want to have fun and create. I am obviously always going to be at a disadvantage compared to those who either do these things already for a career, or a second job, or who see this as a second career or job waiting to happen.

If SL wants the big numbers they will or perhaps should appeal to both groups.

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Agrees and seconds that motion!  There has to be things that are writting in layman's language that is easy to use and relatively inexpensive.  Product wise, you get some one interested in an easy to use product they will learn it and move up to a more complex product.

 

 

Yeah! You know how some manuals in DIY stuff (like even a bookcase) are so complicated and in such wonky tech language you end up just muddling through building on your own? But at least one knows how it should be looking at each point throughout and if it falls over, you know you did it wrong. Lol (It also takes 4 times as long as it should, but with the given manual is impossible for you. And if you ask others, "RTM.")

These 3d programs and even Photoshop are not written by artist/technogeeks but just by the technogeeks, that's clear to me...Most of it is counter intuitive, linear, and anything but easily grasp-able language. Which is regrettable, since I think, the sooner all online programs, especially games and virtual worlds, include everyone's ability to contribute, the sooner they will become what they want and need to be in order to thrive/profit/whatever floats their boat or 401k.

Imagine a product that's easy to use and makes a great result. A true virtual Lego, not a virtual geometry program resulting in a Lego.

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What are the stipulations for possibly selling the resulting product, down the line?

I do not have plans to open a mesh shop but some might.

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PS what is this in world animation tool you speak of? I'd love to learn proper animation. I'm not afraid of hard work.

Learning a totally new language (which 'vertices' and such represents) is daunting  however. I think Prok's "learning Chinese" analogy is apt, that's just what it is like for some of us (many of us maybe even most.)

It isn't that people are lazy, they perhaps are intimidated, or have no clue where or how to even begin. Could I teach myself Chinese or Russian? How would I know I'm not saying "your dog is on fire" Instead of "hello?"

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Yin Yang (or TWIMC)

Speaking only for myself: I've never been in any elite that I know of. LOL.

In SL I do nothing for profit. All that I do is out of pocket and available free to use for anyone who goes by very basic rules (the only stipulation.) So I am not profit motivated in SL and I do not know that I ever will be. I see SL as a platform to create, be social, relax. My version of creativity there is to landscape mostly since I never really learned how to build well. See above somewhere about finding a teacher = water in the Gobe. And yeah I've been to the various classes, it's not the same. Limited question time, and then it ends. No continuity.

You will see what some of us say as excuses but I am not sure you have stopped to think what it is like to be left behind. Were you those alpha males with short sighted vision of the future how would you feel today instead? (I see them as people who respected hand crafting, as well as perhaps lacking vision or experience to know what was coming; which was in fact rare; 30 yrs ago how many people could predict the internet for example?) My point is that it's comfier from the vantage point of "I was right."

Not everyone has had a technical background yet all wish to be in on the excitement of creation. Having even a rudimentary in world mesh editor/creator would be wonderful for those people - who are MOST OF US. 

Yes for progress, but keep in mind the people who get steamrolled by it and have a tiny bit of compassion.

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So that's where/when Greenies went!

I has a sad.

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I hope people are taking in what you say Qie. You raise a lot of really good points.

Red Queen's Race is just what it feels like for me but then some of us spend our lives on the treadmill.  LOL

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Blue Mars, for one, wins no fan here since they can't even be bothered to make a Mac version. Talk about short sighted.

Or did they finally get with it? Still put a lot of us way behind if we wanted to join them, (which I was neutral at best over; SL was first, I like pioneers), if so.

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I think Qie hit the nail on the head.

The current creators/vendors might well be replaced in SL with new ones, as the skill set changes.

But will the new set rent land? Will they need to?

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I guess you both missed where I said it was not intended as a pejorative. It's a broadly accurate analogy. There are the few who will decide things then there are the rest of us. In today's world the middle class is vanishing steadily, and it's becoming the l33t and the peasantry. It has nothing to do with money, really, but it has to do with access or opportunity. It has to do with who decides.

And it was half a joke.  I guess it fell pretty flat.

And also you're forgetting I'm not in the l33t so I'm a peasant too.

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So yeah, i virtually see Anshe#s avatar jump thru the non existant roof of her 1000 SL sims in joy. While her sweatshop boys work their ass off for peparing their alreay made stuff for day zero.

Win-Win for her. In ANY case.

 

I thought about that, too. Not much any of us can do about it. In any new world or market, the first and most determined will wind up on top.  I'd say more but I'm sure she can afford better lawyers than I can.  ;-p

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If LL exposed a messaging format for manipulating temp mesh assets and applying them to objects, multiple TPV implementations of such an editor would exist within a month.

Even if they were rudimentary at first, even if they had to export the model to get UV maps, even if they were little more than a glorified Blender backend, they would make Second Life a social building experience again.

And it would kill Blue Mars overnight.

 

I like the sound of this.

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Apparently Bryce has a free version but one has to buy the manual, it doesn't come with one. Maybe that's what she meant.  I only know what I read in you tube comments under a Bryce tutorial last night while I was looking at other mesh editors.

I still can't figure out what people are selling on Renderosity or rather, who or what they are selling to or for. The products look just like what's in Second Life shops except the resolution is sharper. Skins, avatars, hair, shoes, clothing...but for which program out there?

If all those people come streaming in to Second Life, current shop owners are going to have a rough go of it.

I do think this higher quality stuff is "the future" but it's going to be a painful transition (as many transitions ever are) for current residents. After a point, though, people will look back and think, how did we ever wear those pixelly things? Kind of like Playstation 3 vs. Atari.

An in world mesh tool would be great, and make the transition less painful for many. While keeping the atmosphere of "anyone can play."

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Thanks, having people's recommendations is really invaluable, though. If I had to sort through all the google results of things available...It's like sorting through a huge pile of castoffs not knowing what's good or bad.

I would appreciate any links you have, you can send them by NC in world or however you wish. I will be offline until later tonight probably. Or I would've PMed you in world.

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I really, truly appreciate the recommendations by those who used the programs and knew what I was looking for. I looked up Sculptris, ZBrush and more and I'm so excited. I watched some tutes of those on youtube briefly, and although I don't know yet if I'll be good at it, it looks closer than Photoshop (splaying out a 2d texture) to what I hoped for.

I wanted to post mainly to say that again and equally to give others something back, which is, I just found out there's a free download of the new Sculptris Alpha 5, which looks really intuitive to use, from what I can tell. I haven't tried it yet.  I have to see if an old PC can  handle it, first.  But if I can't maybe others can.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=090617

In the page there is a place to download and it's free. Windows only at this point and it may soon go commercial, which is why I decided to let people know about it.

I looked at Renderosity website too and if that's what people are making SL is about to get better looking.

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Thank you, both, very much. 

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However, I will say that it has a steep learning curve. You might want to give Sculptris a spin first to get your feet wet.

 

Thanks so much!

Although, the tech in that program differs from some of the others.

 

An intuitive interface is a must for me. I will definitely check it out, thank you.

As for Photoshop, you can paint directly on a 3D model in the "Extended" versions of the program. I know you can export to Collada .dae from Photoshop CS4 Extended for sure.

 

Thank you so much.

Er, any idea where to find a video tute for any of this? Or a message board community where I can ask all this stuff without just annoying one person or risking being told to use google? 

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Telling painters that they may not paint because not everyone in the world knows how to paint does nothing to make the universe more just or better.

 

True.

But I think it's also just to support programs like "Free Arts for Abused Children" http://www.freearts.org if one is fortunate enough to know what art can do. And has the means. Or the time. (Or a program like it.) It's nice if everyone at least has some material to try with. I know that Utopia isn't possible but then again, if not in SL, where? The better prim building interface Maelstrom mentioned would sure be nice.   

Prok's posts are interesting IMO as are all the posts in this comment section actually. I feel I am learning a lot in indefinable ways.

SL is one of the most level playing fields you will find for creation.

 

You have a point, but at the same time. A new train seems to come along distressingly often for us pikers. Lol

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That's really an amazing thing you plan to do (for the SL community.) Thanks in advance!