KanryDrago
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Posts posted by KanryDrago
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20 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:
Also, to add on to stuff about how things can still look good if not better with optimized styles. If someone made a Male/Female body on SL like this, it could easily rival the current main ones in style and quality.
Heres a fun thought I will start a new thread shall I using this image and ask people to indicate yes or no as to whether they would find this body style a suitable substitute for their mesh. I am pretty sure it would be a resounding hell no
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3 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:
And most wouldn't notice the difference if it had a slight more realistic style to the shape, It could still look better, made better, less taxing on the systems, and possibly even easier to make stuff for. Mostly just talking about the body, the head is certainly more toon style, but most human bodies don't come with heads.
On top of which one of the biggest niches in SL are photographers and I am damn sure they don't want to photograph cartoons
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2 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:
And most wouldn't notice the difference if it had a slight more realistic style to the shape, It could still look better, made better, less taxing on the systems, and possibly even easier to make stuff for. Mostly just talking about the body, the head is certainly more toon style, but most human bodies don't come with heads.
Of course people would notice the difference, the vast majority come here for a social experience, they want as near to real as it gets they don't come here to pew pew
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6 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:
Also, to add on to stuff about how things can still look good if not better with optimized styles. If someone made a Male/Female body on SL like this, it could easily rival the current main ones in style and quality.
You are kidding right, that is far far below the standard of current mesh bodies its a freaking cartoon
See this is exactly why those of opposed to these "lets bring in optimisations you won't know the difference" crowd are dubious when someone can tout this monstrosity as anywhere near the standard of current mesh
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11 minutes ago, ChinRey said:
Thanks a lot! That seems to be a really good test!
Just took the test to see how my pc performs, interestingly it gives component costs on the output and totting up my component costs my pc is just over 800. However 320 of that comes from a graphics card I put in a couple of weeks ago when my gtx 980 bit the dust which I picked up second hand for 200.
so for about 700£ you could have a pc not much different to mine which runs sl perfectly adequately which shows all the people going on about 2000 to 3000 gaming rigs being necessary isnt at all true.
ratings were
Gaming Nuclear submarine
Desktop Aircraft Carrier
Workstation Battle ship
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11 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:
Oh absolutely! We are gonna take all your toys away and there is nothing you can do to prevent us!
So given that creator's are going to do what they do now because its the easy option why do you not agree that there won't of necessity have to be a coercive element to make them toe the line? You obviously think there won't need to be but I would bet on human nature taking its course and most just shrugging and ignoring it
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35 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:
Well ya sure, of course things made properly for a game won't be as photo realistically detailed as something made for a rendered image or movie, but we aren't playing a rendered image or movie, we're playing a video game.
["Is SL a video game?!" topics aside, at it's core, it's a video game, running on decade old game engine]
And video games need limits, specially for an old engine. Most games as old as SL would be playable at ultra by 90% of it's playerbase by now, but we can't, because lots of other creators don't want to even bother help making it run better.
I can find plenty of stuff at a quality that I find acceptable so not my issue, if however you insist SL items must be restricted because you want to run it on a pc that could of been found on the ark then you are trying to make your problem (not wanting to get a reasonable pc) into my problem. I find SL runs just fine as is, it is others asking for that to be changed because they don't want to spend any money bringing their pc into the 21st century yet somehow I am the selfish one for saying I prefer things as they are.
The problem with all the things suggested is that to work they can't be voluntary. If I can go on buying what I like and find good regardless of optimisation then its not going to help you at all. I don't in the least object to things being optimised, I will buy them if they are good enough, if not I will buy the unoptimised stuff. It is the element of coercion I object to where for you to have the experience you want I have to be forced to accept my experience might change.
If you play SL it's a hobby , if you take up golf you expect to spend money on the equipement needed to pursue your hobby. If you don't want to spend the money then perhaps not the hobby for you and you don't need to spend much compared at least to a reasonable set of golf clubs. Maybe 600$ would get you a pc more than adequate enough to handle most of sl.
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7 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:
Because there would be no degradation if it was done properly to begin with. Most content I inspect can easily be slashed in half if not to a third and you will be unable to tell the difference.
And before you reply: I'm not calling you blind, it's just that badly optimized.
Normally when people show pictures of their "Optimised content" here I have found that I look it at and shrug because while it doesn't look much different to the "unoptimised" version it is not of a quality that I would consider worthy of rezzing. So forgive me when I take that opinion with a pinch of salt. In fact I think Chin Rey did earlier in this very thread and it was exactly the comment I made
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1 minute ago, Penny Patton said:
Qie hit the nail on the head. Dismissing calls for optimization and instead making the unrealistic demand that people simply upgrade their computers is not only short sighted but misses the point. We all win when SL is more successful. We all lose when SL fails to draw in new residents and hold on to the residents it has.
An SL that runs better while looking better, an SL where more people can run SL at higher graphics settings, an SL that runs smoothly on tablets and mobile devices is obviously going to be more successful than an SL that doesn't even run all that well on modern gaming hardware.
A more successful SL means more successful content creators, higher traffic and more people to meet, as well as more new locations to check out in SL.
No one is saying optimisation is bad unless it affects quality. However it is also true that quite a few complain that sl doesnt run smoothly on hardware that is 10+years out of date.
Where optimisation can be done without affecting things then it should be done....there is however a caveat....too many times we get claims that suggested optimizations don't affect the QoL in sl because the one pushing the optimisation doesn't see the degradation as particularly important to them. Others may well look at that degradation and say no I find that unacceptable. As someone pointed out before people come to SL for different reasons.
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1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
What protection do you have against the Australian government changing their own privacy laws?
Australia no longer has privacy laws surely with the bill they pushed through at the last year to force australian companies to back door their systems upon request. What was it their pm said ? Something about the laws of Australia superceding the laws of mathematics. This is why no one should ever trust a company with a prescence in Australia with any of your data
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7 hours ago, TiaShaw said:
Sl will never be less demanding on your pc . Everything will progressively became more demanding on your hardware . Just like every new version of windows . I think it is sad that alot of people are complaining about a free game that their outdated hardware wont play.
28 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:I love those people who always consider that problems that don't affect them are "other people's personal problems".
People who insist on holding onto ancient computers and saying SL should run fine on them are doing exactly that though, they dont want upgrading to be their problem so they want the experience to be degraded so they don't have to. Which reduces the experience for those of us that have more recent computers (ie the last 5 years). They very much want it to be not their problem and become others problem
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2 hours ago, chardonay Babii said:
Think about it, multinational companies worth billions and governments struggle to stop hackers stealing info and selling it on the dark web. Do you want to take that risk and trust this company can protect all your sensitive RL info to collect a few Lindens from a content creating business? I wouldn’t do it for a thousand bucks, I’d leave it in there. FYI I read the terms and privacy policy. That’s the contract terms I would have to agree to but won’t do. It’s not a knee jerk reaction it’s experience. Once bitten twice shy. The Tilia team say they have good intentions but sorry guys for me the risk outweighs the potential benefit.
Which part of this isnt the labs requiring this information, its the law requiring they collect it and they have no choice whether or not to do it. Good luck taking them to court to make them act illegally
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4 minutes ago, Jackson Redstar said:
I think the issue facing Linden is people aren't buying "machines" they have laptops and tablets nowadays. Except for hard core gamers who probably aren't likely that interested in SL anyways. And i think it would be hard for someone to justify just because they like SL to spend 2 or 3 thousand (or more) on a machine powerful to enjoy SL in all its glory
well see thats where you exaggerate, my machine is 4 years old, it cost 900 at the time. You can pick up the same spec now for much less and it runs sl perfectly fine
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Just now, ChinRey said:
That may well be. I obviously wasn't going to spend the time needed for a more elaborate build just to prove the point. It does apply to SL meshes at all levels of complexity though.
Yes I wasnt expecting you to put a lot of time into it and to be fair it may just be the way they were photographed. The point I was trying to make however is merely that when you can show this reduction with something that people consider to be usable then it would carry more weight.
For me at least I find SL runs fine virtually everywhere with everything like shadows turned on and alm at ultra. Very occasionally at a hugely crowded sim I turn down to high, maybe once a month. Most of those that I see complain seem to have machines that would have been considered outdated 5 years ago. While I accept there is a balance between pitching sl at machines that are less able I personally don't think that a ten year old machine struggling so we should do something to make it work a reasonable balance. At some point you have to turn round to people and say....well yes its going to run like crap with that and the answer is upgrade your machine
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3 minutes ago, ChinRey said:
Better looking content do not generally require an overall increase in resources. Nearly all the content I've seen in SL have been obviously loaded down with serious amount of "dead weight" that can be eliminated without altering the appearance or performance in any way.
I made an example of this about a year ago. I looked at a fairly typical SL mesh (a dead tree in this case) and made a very similar one using some fairly basic optimisation techniques. I had no problems cutting the land impact down to a third and the render weight down to half of the original. Those are fairly typical figures and if all SL content had been made with the fairly moderate level of optimisation I went for in this case, we'd save a lot of gpu and bandwidth load with no negative side effects whatsoever.
LittleMe Jewell was kind enough to post a picture of the two trees side by side. They are not exactly identical of course - I had to respect the original creator's IP rights - but I hope you agree they are simialr eough to be comparable. The one to the left is mine, the one to the right the original. https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/428493-current-premium-gift-camp-fire-tent/?tab=comments#comment-1801775
I still don't like to blame content creators for the lag though. Most of the ones I've met - and that includes a few of the "worst offenders" - have tended to be quite positive to optimisation. The main problems are the lack of relevant information and the abundance of myths and misinformation.
And neither of them are something I would consider good enough to use
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10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:
What makes you think that the Digital Arts sim is "commercially successful"? And what do you mean by that -- that it is making a profit? That it earns enough money to be self-sustaining?
I did only get a half hour there this morning, but I didn't even run across a tip jar, yet alone a "commercial" element. I'm sure that there is a tip jar, somewhere --- but do they sell things as well? What do you know about the financial underpinnings of the sim?
My fault, the bit you wandered around I think is the swamp top side, the commercial gallery is down a hatch in the landscape
The reason I suspect its commercially successful is I see a lot of the works below in other sims and homes. Of course I havent seen the persons books so cant definitely say its commercially successful 100% but they are doing it without freebies and I know that people do buy the artists stuff. I have 3 or 4 pieces myself and as I said I have seen loads of the stuff from the gallery below scattered in other places
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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:
Kanry, did you not admit that you've never actually been to a LEA exhibit?
So, you know it's "pretentious twaddle" because . . . how, exactly?
Nope I have never been, mostly because apart from previous mentions in the forums I would have no idea it even exists. Yes maybe I am being unfair and its not full of art such as Tracy Emins unmade bed. I would be willing however to put money on it mostly being like that
1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:I am totally mystified as to what this actually means, particularly in a SL context. What is "commercially successful" art here, exactly?
Can you give me an example?
If an artist can support displaying their art in world by the sale of that art then I would class that as commercially sucessful. There are plenty of examples around however one of my favourites is Digital art cammino e vivo vapovolto. (spelling might be slightly off without checking the landmark).
I also said or recommended to me by friends. None of my friends have ever suggested I would enjoy LEA exhibits to me . They have suggested plenty of other places though. Partly my stance is driven by my rl views. The arts should not be subsidised. Not because I think art is a waste of time or money but purely because the arts that get subsidised are ones that few enjoy and often I suspect even some of those that claim to don't enjoy but its the "done thing" to be seen to enjoy. That is to say it ends up being an elitist thing used to sneer down at the masses that are more honest and look at it and go "well its a bit naff really"
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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:
lol. Colourful, or at least odiferous image, Kanry. And not the first time you've employed it, or something like, with regards to one of my threads. I'm beginning to worry that it's not the threads that are malodorous, but me!
There are a number of points you make here. First, did "anyone ever come to see it"? Yes. I did, many others did. I'm pretty sure that you'll find that nearly everyone who has posted in this thread visited at least sometimes.
But your question is valid: was LEA effective?
And mostly, the consensus is probably no, at least for the last few years of its existence. And that's why, if you read this thread, you'll see that no one here is simply asking that it be resurrected as it was: the actual focus, the point of this thread, is to ask what can be done differently to ensure that it is 1) showcasing as much worthwhile art as feasible, and 2) integrating that art, and creativity in general, more effectively into people's day-to-day virtual lives here. No one thinks that what is required here is some sort of rarified, cloistered art space that no one except artists cares about: we all want to raise the profile of art and creativity, and make it matter.
So, this thread is about reforming LEA, not merely "saving" it. And, I might note, so too is the in-world group working to bring new proposals to LL: it's called "LEA 2.0" for a reason.
That said, I'm a little curious how you can be so sure that LEA was a failure, when you admit you've never visited it. Did you imagine that LEA was going to come to you?
Serious question, because this is an issue we've been discussing here, and that needs to be addressed: what would it take to get someone like yourself to use LEA, or whatever it is that may replace it?
firstly I didnt check who made the original post, so my comment about lingering wasnt directed at you
My point is this really same as it is in rl
There is art that is appreciated by few people and needs government funding because there are not enough people wanting to see it or buy it but a certain sector of government sees it as art even though most people dont care about it. In my country opera and ballet are examples of this
There is art a lot of people like and that makes its own way in the marketplace, they can fund the sim they sell from quite happily, a lot of people like it and buy it
Mostly the first type is the LEA type, pretentious twaddle that few will ever like or buy. I don't think the new LEA will be any different to the old LEA in that respect. As to what will make me go and see it....being commercially successful will make me go and see it, friends recommendations will make me go and see it. The stamp of the LEA is a reason not to see it. Art by committee is always bad art
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41 minutes ago, ChinRey said:
The way I see it, it's not about creating a standardized mesh body for everybody, it's about creating a new and more detailed system body with all the modifying parameters the existing system body has and a few more. In other words, the idea is to allow for more variety, not less.
In theory mesh bodies and body parts are just as adjustable as the system body is but in reality they aren't. There were far less "clones" back in the days before fitted mesh.
As far as I can tell my mesh body responds to all the sliders perfectly well. The fact that some mesh bodies may not is down to the creators
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Just now, Selene Gregoire said:
We already have "standard mesh bodies" from SL. Nothing wrong with making them decent(er). When you get down to the nitty gritty, it's all a form of mesh; terrain, prims, sculpts... the whole works is mesh in one form or another.
I did say "decent" mesh bodies
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I have been avoiding this thread sort of like the plague however as it hangs around like a bad smell going to comment
Does the Lea old or new support art in sl whatsoever? I have never been to an lea thing nor do I know anyone that has said they have. I do goto a lot of art places but the only time I even am aware of LEA is when someone posts a thread here and frankly they dont make it seem worth visiting in the least.
I think therefore before asking A New lea you should be asking really did it ever work. Sure some artists got to put up their work, did anyone ever come to see it though
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Totally against a standard decent mesh body from sl. dont want attack of the clones which is what it will result in when people can get mesh for nothing. Its bad enough already
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56 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:
Sure, and I should add that just because it doesn't tick the boxes for what I see as a successful SL-style virtual world doesn't mean it can't do just fine in that sex game niche.
In addition to all of that I wouldn't trust the debs as far as I could throw them. There is a site that you can look up avid there to determine alt. The site takes bit coin and as 3dx has no scripting language or api it is difficult to see how that site gets all the info it does without development collusion.
The only reason the animations are better is because the avatars are so limited in how you can change thrm
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2 hours ago, animats said:
Amusingly, there's a virtual world which has all that - 3DXChat. It started as just a sex sim. Then they added building. Then users started building and visiting each others places, instead of paying for sex like they were supposed to.
Building in 3DXchat is with prims, plus a library of prebuilt objects. It's more flexible than The Sims, but less flexible than SL. The pre-built objects may be parametric, like SineSpace, but I'm not sure.
A bit of the World Editor. This shows a neat solution to the sit target problem. The "person with yardstick" icon brings up the sittable patterns. Here, the builder just built a couch. It's not sittable yet. They have to select a suitable sit target pattern, drag it to the couch, and resize it to match. Then characters can use the couch. The available sit patterns are shown. SL could learn from this.
I can tell you 3dx does not in anyway have all of that. Every 6th avatar looks identical because it follows the mmo format of chose from these 6 heads. It is in no way unusual to see two avatars on 3dx that look identical wearing identical clothes. It has a choice of about 6 or 7 for everything including such items as trousers and skirts etc. You also have around 15 dances to choose from and about 23 animations. Your chat is character limited so you have to break anything long up. On top of which it is sub only. 3dx doesn't even come close to sl
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Would you trade your mesh body for this?
in Your Avatar
Posted
Long story short some one posted this image in the Why is sl so laggy thread saying it would be a suitable substitute with a little tweaking for our current mesh. My reaction to it was fairly negative how ever I am only one person. Lets see others reactions to this. We will find out who thinks they would trade their mesh for something like this because as the original poster of the image said "They would barely notice the difference"