Nextio

I suggest skipping standard sizes altogether. Start designing with Fitted Mesh if you want to design for classic avatars. If you want to design for the latest mesh bodies, then go to their respective stores and find the dev kits for Maitreya, Belleza, Slink, Altamura, Ebody, Signature, Tonic, etc. Look for both female and male dev kits. After that, look on youtube for tutorials, but make sure you find the updated tutorials, otherwise most tutorials will show you how to design for standard sizes. If you're still confused, then look up Themightyginko tutorials. Her channel is updated with the latest process. She uses a very outdated Marvelous Designer version though, but it shouldn't be too difficult to follow along.

You're going off the rails with hyperbole. I'm talking about a virtual world with a gradual change over time. Either stick to the subject or i'm just not going to bother anymore.

That's not what i'm saying at all. I'm saying SL needs to adhere to a standard instead of patching it up like Frankenstein. I don't have a problem with 3rd party avatars or content. I'll break it down for you. SL's avatar system Ruth/Roth Non-bento mesh avatars (w/o mesh head, only standard head)* Bento mesh avatars (w/o mesh head, only standard head).* *Appliers do not work on their mesh avatars, so they are implementing bakes-on-mesh as a solution. Now let's look at the conundrum for creators Develop for the above SL standards (three variations!) Develop for 3rd party mesh avatars (even more variation) There should only be one variation of the standard SL avatar. (3rd party variation is fine and the popular ones are determined by consumers) What about clothing and appliers? Ruth/Roth (tattoo layers?) Standard sizing Fitted mesh Bento mesh 3rd party avatars Which of the above options should creators focus on? They have limited time, so they focus on their target audience, because it's more efficient in their workflows. All the top creators do not design for Ruth/Roth anymore. They do not create Standard or Fitted clothing anymore. They create for Bento and 3rd party avatars, because that's what customers want. It's like the real world. You either adapt, or be that person who never conformed to a modern lifestyle. Those are the people who never changed their hairstyle or upgraded their wardrobe. They are stuck in the past, still rocking a 70's moustache and/or wearing bell-bottoms. The rest of the real world/SL world is moving on though.

Because most of that old stuff hinders SL's development and growth. As pointed out earlier in this thread, it comes down to badly optimized mesh created by amateurs. Then you have prims which was a hack that made things worse. On top of that, SL's in-world building tools were abandoned and never updated to conform to "mesh", and that's why the best content is made in Maya and Blender. That's like saying, "why throw out those old car parts that the T-Model used"? Would any car manufacture seriously be using old parts from the 1930s alongside modern parts? Of course not. They eventually phased out the old useless junk and replaced it with efficient parts, or just created a new design from scratch. Giving new people something to do isn't going to help when the world around them is lagging and glitching everywhere, due to old prims and badly optimized mesh.

Technology advances, whether you like it or not. Successful businesses adapt and stay alive, i.e. Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, etc. They gradually change over time, and eventually phase out their old products (VCR, 4:3 TV, etc). The majority of people aren't using Win 95 anymore, and almost all software development has stopped supporting Win XP. Why would any company cater to a dying audience when there's an ocean of new customers? SL is a mess. It's a patchwork of prims, flexi prims, sculpties, mesh, etc. And then you have the mess with avatars: Ruth, SL's default non-bento avatars, SL's default bento avatars, then 3rd party bento avatars & parts, such as maitreya and catwa heads. There's no standardization or conformity. It's basically the Frankenstein of virtual worlds/games. They had various options to phase out that old stuff over five years ago. The community tried suggesting ideas and tried helping, but Linden Lab decided to do things differently. They wanted to keep the status quo to keep people like you satisfied, but here we are years later confirming their decision was wrong.

Well, i was using "game engine" as a broad term. When you break it down, it's made up of different components, such as rendering, physics, audio, scripting, etc. Are you really trying to say all those different components are comparable to modern game engines such as Unreal, Unity, and mmorpgs? I'm not saying the code hasn't been updated, but Linden Lab isn't solely focused on game engine optimizations. They are mostly focused on front-end development and management. It's practically in maintenance mode these days, with the exception of new features such as bento and bake-on-mesh (gotta throw a bone to the base every now and then). Newer games handle rendering in different ways than it was in 2003. Different engines, such as Unreal and Unity, are mostly focused under the hood, i.e. coding and algorithms, while 3rd party developers focus on the front-end of development. There isn't really much you can do to SL's code anymore without re-writing the entire thing. Updates help, but they also conflict with other code, and then you start going down the rabbit hole trying to get everything to work harmoniously. Just take OpenSim and SL for example. Both are practically using the same engine, but nobody would seriously say that OpenSim is comparable to modern game development.

SL's biggest problem has always been it's game engine, because it was constructed by amateurs. It was never built to have performance and optimization as it's top priority, unlike mmorpgs. They would need to start all over with a new engine to handle new coding techniques and hardware technologies that deal with rendering, culling, draw distance, and so on. People were hoping for SL 2.0 but we got Sansar instead. Now the SL playerbase is stuck with this dying old game.

Not sure if this is the correct sub-forum to post this is in, but i just came back to SL and found out that the Seraphim Hud has been abandoned and will no longer be maintained. This is just sad. It was really nice to explore all the various events in one convenient hud. Does anyone know of other similar websites or huds like it? Most event-based websites have terrible layouts and make navigating all the events a chore. You can read more info here: http://seraphimsl.com/2018/06/01/seraphim-in-world-hud-announcement/

This will be quite long. First off, i'm not bashing creators or users. I think it's wonderful that they have extended SL with better avatar bodies, heads, and enhancements (hands, feet, buttocks, breasts, etc). I just want to start a discussion and see what others think. Secondly, i've noticed that there's slight discrimination (for lack of a better term), against those with system/classic/base avatars. They seem more likely to be turned down for jobs, modeling, hosting, etc. Those with mesh avatars are more likely to be hired. Keep in mind, i do not have hard data, but it's just an observation. It's not just confined to the business aspect of SL either, but it also happens in other aspects of SL, such as in commercial products (clothing, makeup, tattoos, shoes, etc), clubs, events, and so on. It even affects the adult industry too. As time went on, creators have been dropping support for classic avatars, and i really don't blame them, because developing for both is a frustrating process. For example: Rigged/Fitted mesh, Standard Sizing clothing, appliers, SLink feet, etc. My next point is: the social pressure of upgrading to mesh bodies, heads, and enhancements. The pressure is real. I've seen it and experienced it, with friends, groups, advertising, and even on this forum. I'm sure most of you have too. If you don't upgrade, people will say you're either poor, lazy, stubborn, and so on. Some will also try to rationalize it, by comparing the price to buying a fast food meal. It's a legit comparison, but it's still disregarding people's personal and/or financial reasons, for not upgrading. Lastly, the fault lies with Linden Lab, because they have failed to adapt to the modern progress of creators. The exception would be the upcoming Bento viewer, but look how long it has taken. (since 2012?). Instead of revamping the classic avatars, they decided to make sub-par mesh avatars. Correct me if i'm wrong, but they cannot change skins, or use fitted mesh (due to lack of rigging). Would it have been so hard to include a standard applier HUD for them? Something similar to Omega appliers would have been ideal. It would've gave creators incentive to develop for them. Now look at it from a new resident's point of view (or a returning resident). Classic/system/base avatar (Ruth & Roth).Various subsequent iterations of newer LL avatars (Vampries, Steampunk, etc).Mesh bodies/heads (Belleza, SLink, Maitreya,etc).System clothing, Fitted/Rigged, and Standard Sizing clothing, Appliers.Shoes & SLink inconsistencies and compatabilities.Alphas that look like a shirt icon.Eyebrow shapers look like a head icon.Every attachment is an orange box icon. (let creators choose common icons for jewelry, hair, etc)....and so on. If SL could be summed up, i would call it a patchwork of a mess, i.e Frankenstein. New residents, or returning residents, have to deal with this mess, and their first impressions will likely drive them away, especially when they are confronted with two options: keep the outdated classic avatars, or spend money on mesh bodies & heads (Belleza, SLink, Maitreya,etc). Linden Lab could solve this by replacing the classic avatars with new standard avatars. Would it really be that hard to make minor adjustments to weight transfers and XML files? If they are incapable of doing so, then all they would need is an Applier system (as well as dev kit for creators), which would probably be the easiest task of them all. It just seems like they gave up though, hence the upcoming Sansar. What's everyone else think? Am i being too critical?