LipstickAndDreams

Not at all, new things are fine as long as they aren't half-assed like PBR is. If the performance issues were fixed before releasing it, this thread wouldn't be filled with so much negativity. And if you think the people in this thread are being negative about the subject, wait until other SL users are forced into this. Its going to be hilarious to watch lol

The issue isn't the technology itself. Old computers can easily run this stuff if the implementation is efficient. LL's implementation is not. Whether or not this is because they have reached the limit of OpenGL's performance capability given the overabundance of complex objects in SL, I don't know. What I do know is that the viewer's efficiency should have been prioritized before introducing shiny new crap. I don't even know where to begin with this lmao

Just realized it may a difference in monitor resolution. What are the resolutions for the displays of both machines? If you decrease the display resolution on your Studio, then it will likely be faster.

Do you notice any difference in resolution/blurriness between your macbook and your studio?

ALM is still slower than the forward renderer, after all these years. It could have been improved, but it wasn't for whatever reason. I will still do what I said I would do.

Yeah, its bad. Throttlebook users are going to be even worse off, given that they have no CPU cooling. Once Firestorm retires its last non-PBR version, I am going to make a fork of it that removes the client-side version checking so that people can still use a non-PBR viewer. I may do this for other viewers if they remain stable enough, or if there is enough demand.

I mean the same whales who spend thousands of dollars on cosmetic items in crappy mobile games (examples of these people available on request) would probably buy a bunch of stuff here if they could use the platform. I was just saying that LL made a bad choice about the toolkit used to make the viewer because of the terrible license attached to Unity.

Thanks Henri! This is all I needed to know.

There are also other engines like Godot that could be used to make a viewer, but a lot of the rendering stuff would have to be reimplemented.

Honestly no idea. But it wouldn't matter for mobile users, as the vast majority probably aren't going to download any viewer other than the one listed on the App Store or Play Store.

Unless LL keeps using an old, eventually unsupported version of Unity, they will have to pay a fee based on how many times the viewer is downloaded: https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator

Well that is a horrifying possibility that I didn't even think about. In practice, parents are often stupid about this sort of thing. I have seen horrors you would not believe.

Even if the mobile viewer ends up working and people end up using it, LL made the colossal mistake of using the Unity engine to make it.

Yeah, thats the most hilarious part. Nobody save for a few asset flippers creators LARPing as professionals are going to even use this.

I was looking over the third party viewer terms because I wish to fork an existing TPV and revert changes to the rendering engine in the future to remove PBR. I noticed this: Would removing PBR violate this term? And if it does, would I still be allowed to use such a viewer for my own personal use as long as I do not distribute it? Thanks.

Noted. I will take a look and see what can be done.

I know. See my previous comment about integrated graphics, which the vast majority of computers come with.

What do you use? I am seriously considering maintaining forks of existing TPV versions without PBR because of all this nonsense, and would like to know which ones people would actually use.

They don't even have to. Hypothetically all they have to do is keep the old forward rendering system alongside PBR. If a single hobbyist viewer developer can do it, then the company behind SL itself can do it. They have no excuse.

She probably has integrated graphics. According to my tests on various iGPU systems, PBR will cause anywhere between a 20-60% frame rate drop when compared to forward rendering (ALM disabled.) It is absolutely abysmal. Yeah, its true. Your options to avoid it are: 1) Switch to Cool VL viewer: http://sldev.free.fr/ 2) Fork the code from an old viewer of your choice, edit the code to remove any allowed version checking (such as Firestorm's), and compile it yourself. This will work for a little while at least.

The Cool VL viewer contains both rendering engines. The creator, Henri Beauchamp, decided to keep the old one in order to keep his viewer usable on low-spec systems. It will be my viewer of choice once I finish loading my enormous inventory cache onto it. And the fact that it is literally maintained by a single person is honestly inspiring. It makes me want to learn how to do that.

I am implying that people who have $1000-$2000 to spend on a gaming PC are going to be more likely to have extra disposable income. The tinfoil hatter inside me is saying that the PBR decision is a consequence of higher interest rates; other platforms have made decisions to attempt to limit availability to non-paying users recently too (for example Youtube cracking down on adblockers, twitter requiring users to pay to register, etc.) Something like a rendering engine overhaul would accomplish this for SL too, without being as overt as requiring people to pay in order to use the platform.

Does this data include all the people that use third-party viewers? And more critically, does it correlate total hardware cost of each given system with money spent on SL? That is going to be the real critical factor, though I think we all know the answer already.

Oh I don't care if they listen or not. They will do their thing, I will do mine as long as it is allowed.

I've been using it too, and based on my experience with it I will bet my entire L$ balance that his viewer is going to replace Firestorm as the most used TPV in the coming years. Be prepared, Henri. You are going to get a lot of people asking you to change the interface lol